Logic flaws

AGAPE · Post by **AGAPE** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:29 am

I couldn't help but notice things that didn't make sense in the course of the game, as you surely have. I have nothing against this game; in fact it's very well made and polished. However, developers could have used some third party brains, don't you think?

1. The anti-magic crew in Athkatla comes after you if you cast things in the streets but neglect to respond if it's done inside buildings - even their headquarters in Government.
2. The said group pop out of nowhere to arrest you and if you its members frequently, they'll eventually come after you with their highest ranked member, after which they quit. But when you go into the Government building, nobody cares when you've murdered a bunch of them.
3. The Amish guards (for instance, those that you find in Waukeen's Promenade) attack the Cowled Enforcers. I thought they were a part of the Athkatla judicial system.
4. On the map where you find "kamizake kobolds" in Windspear dungeons, there is a hole in the ground to the west. If you manipulate it, you kick a rock down the depths and get a response from whatever in it. After the red dragon is dead, it still makes noise. I think the case is the same for the black dragon.
5. When you commit a theft, a law enforcement officer is immediately summoned. This is impossible, because then all of the citizens of Athkatla must have some psychic ability to alert the authorities.
6. Theft again. If you try to steal something, however insignificant in value it may be, everyone in the area tries to kill you. Well, appearently theft is dealt with the capital punishment. That's pretty harsh.
7. Yoshimo supposedly put stuff in your food en route to Spellhold so you would be unable to resist Irenicus in the prison. I took my time on the island before going to see the pirate captain - say, 3 or 4 days. Yet Yoshimo's sleeping draught is triggered?
8. Normal doors simply open, but secret doors vanish. Where does the material - whatever the door is made out of - go?
9. The crossbow had good range and was more powerful than most bows, but it took much more time to load. An average crossbowman fired 2 shots per minute. In the game you can fire much, much, much faster.
10. Ambushes in the city. They just pop right behind ya.
11. It takes a lot of time for a person to dress in plate armor. But we see lots of people wearing them as everyday outfit, such as the mayor in Trademeet.
12. If someone is standing between you and your target, your arrow passes right through that person to hit your target. Theoretically, things can pass anything in high velocities, but an arrow isn't fast enough to do that.
13. The law is not held up in the Temple district. Even if you massacre a whole church, nobody does anything about it.
14. The cultists below the Temple district should all be blind and therefore suffer penalties, but they don't. Their leader can even cast long range spells when they pulled out his eyes.
15. You can skin a Winter Wolf in the Slums tavern in one of the round pits. Why can't you skin other things you meet - for example, the wolves in Trademeet?
16. Goblins in the very beginning in the starting dungeon have composite bows that require 18 strength. To me, they don't appear that strong.
17. Turnips are plants. Plants need to photosynthesize. Turnips grow in the Jansen house. Jansen house has sealed roof. Sealed roof doesn't allow sunshine. Theoretically, turnips can't grow in the Jansen house. Yet they do in the game.
18. The elf houses in the elf city - they very in sizes, yet their interiors are all the same.
19. Three buildings in Umar Hills: one for the mayor, one for the crazy wizard, and the inn. Where do the rest of the people live?
20. The de'Arnise castle - it has a drawbridge but no moat. What's the point?

Forgive my babbling... just sharing.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 3:05 am

Originally posted by AGAPE
6. Theft again. If you try to steal something, however insignificant in value it may be, everyone in the area tries to kill you. Well, appearently theft is dealt with the capital punishment. That's pretty harsh.

Just because creatures turn hostile, that doesn't mean they'll attack you. In some cases, it means they're afraid you're going to kill them, and they try to run away; they don't attack. That's left to the guards and other combatants, such as NPCs who happen to Fighters, Thieves, or Mages.

Originally posted by AGAPE
3. The Amish guards (for instance, those that you find in Waukeen's Promenade) attack the Cowled Enforcers. I thought they were a part of the Athkatla judicial system.

Have you noticed that Nalia will attack the guards at the Copper Coronet when you free the gladiators, even if she's not a member of your party? I once took her down to the Sewers and released her from the party to see if she would attack other hostile creatures while she was outside the party, and she did. That's part of her script, and I suppose most NPCs follow a similar script. I think that explains why Town Guards attack all hostile creatures, even when they're Cowled Wizard Enforcers.

Consider also the fact that this is a computer game, and the rudimentary AI follows very simple rules. Town Guards simply can't distinguish Cowled Wizards from anyone else.

Originally posted by AGAPE
2. The [Cowled Wizard Enforcers] pop out of nowhere to arrest you and if you its members frequently, they'll eventually come after you with their highest ranked member, after which they quit. But when you go into the Government building, nobody cares when you've murdered a bunch of them.

In case you haven't noticed, Cowled Wizards don't care about anybody, not even each other. They're the sorriest lot of SOBs I've ever seen.

That explains why they don't care if you murder a bunch of them, and it should also explain why no one else cares if you murder them.

Originally posted by AGAPE
7. Yoshimo supposedly put stuff in your food en route to Spellhold so you would be unable to resist Irenicus in the prison. I took my time on the island before going to see the pirate captain - say, 3 or 4 days. Yet Yoshimo's sleeping draught is triggered?

As Irenicus explains, the spell component that Yoshimo slips into your food is completely inert until Irenicus casts a spell on you inside Spellhold to complete the process. Some substances can remain inside your body for a long time if you ingest them, so the issue you raised does not seem illogical to me.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 3:13 am

Originally posted by UncleScratchy
Monkey ranching is another endeavor, but I'm not sure what the monkeys are used for - maybe pets?

I'm surprised at you. Give those monkeys knives and a little training, and they can be used as highly effective assassins.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 3:19 am

6. Theft should be punishable by death - I never could figure out why its not. Winona is one lucky gal in my thinking.

No....

Bad UncleScratchy!

(I like the girl, wasn't that clear

)

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:04 am

Originally posted by VonDondu
I'm surprised at you. Give those monkeys knives and a little training, and they can be used as highly effective assassins.

I can just imagine having a monkey assasin as a familiar, WHAT great power!!!!!!!!1

Taco Magus · Post by **Taco Magus** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 5:44 am

Monkey assasins are great and all but dont under estimate the power of a well cooked burrito

AGAPE · Post by **AGAPE** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 8:59 am

Uncle,

Thank you for your assessment. I think for the most part you aren't serious and trying to ridicule what I say.

I'm very confused, though. What does a sliding pocket door have to do with my need to get out more?

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 9:18 am

Originally posted by AGAPE
Uncle,

Thank you for your assessment. I think for the most part you aren't serious and trying to ridicule what I say.

I'm very confused, though. What does a sliding pocket door have to do with my need to get out more?

Well it is just that sliding pocket doors are so common sight these days and if you've never seen one, well (I quote UncleScratchy) "You need to get out some more".

Seriously though ever been to a supermarket? They usually have these doors whcih just slide open when you approach....voila a sliding pocket door ala 21st century

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 12:03 pm

Originally posted by UncleScratchy

6. Theft should be punishable by death - I never could figure out why its not. Winona is one lucky gal in my thinking.

Quote of the year!

In my books at least.

On a serious note, a game is a game is a game. If one over analsyses it, one would begin to see all the little inconsistencies and loopholes. But then again, it's just a game.

Enjoy!

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:00 pm

Originally posted by Baldursgate Fan
On a serious note, a game is a game is a game. If one over analsyses it, one would begin to see all the little inconsistencies and loopholes. But then again, it's just a game.

Enjoy!

Except when discussing the very serious subject of dwarven throwers.

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 1:44 pm

If we are going to talk about Logic flaws, don't forget about alignments. Knights (Keldorn) and knight wannabe's (Anomen) don't have a problem being in a group that work's for theives as long as you don't have a bad reputation. You can commit evil right in front of them (they'll help) and they might give you a lecture after.

But from a gemeplay point of view, how happy would you be if you lost your favorite characters because you are getting help from theives to rescure your sister?

This is the conflict programmers are faced with.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 3:04 pm

Originally posted by UncleScratchy
I didn't mean to imply Winona should have gotten a harsher sentence. If I were the governor I would have commuted her death sentence to time served - I assure you.

I don't mean to sound harsh or anything, but I think she should be required to do at least a little bit of community service, preferably on a monkey ranch. She'd learn quickly enough to duck when the monkeys started throwing poop.

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Mon Dec 30, 2002 11:09 pm

Very good thread indeed.

This is one instance where I hope life won't imitate art.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 12:04 am

Originally posted by Sojourner
Except when discussing the very serious subject of dwarven throwers.

I'm glad somebody has remembered that august symposium. Always felt it was a shame the members adjourned for a little debauching, I did. Never did get back to discuss the relative virtues of throwing dwarves, gnomes, and halflings, they didn't.

Taco Magus · Post by **Taco Magus** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 4:32 am

an army of dwarves, gnomes and halfling/kender. now that would be a sight to see.feel very very sorry for the opposing side

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:04 am

Originally posted by Taco Magus
an army of dwarves, gnomes and halfling/kender. now that would be a sight to see.feel very very sorry for the opposing side

Especially if they are giants with back ache, they wouldn't be able to reach down to kill the little army....

Taco Magus · Post by **Taco Magus** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:12 am

LOL the gaints would end up with a head ache with all the kends around and just fall down

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:26 am

Originally posted by Taco Magus
LOL the gaints would end up with a head ache with all the kends around and just fall down

This once again goes to prove that tine is better than huge