Making the best Ranger, forget logbows and stick to short bows?

Jeru da`Damaja · Post by **Jeru da`Damaja** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 2:52 pm

thanx

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 2:54 pm

Personally, I prefer long bows...yes yes..i know the tansheron bow and gesen bow hit golems...but I'd rather have the awesome damage from the strong arm or heartseeker and let someone else worry about golems.

Jeru da`Damaja · Post by **Jeru da`Damaja** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 2:59 pm

thanx a ton G! takes a load of my mind being i have everything in longbos for my archer

Pat Bou · Post by **Pat Bou** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 3:00 pm

I am of the same opinion as Genesis. Strong Arm is a must (+3 to hit and +3 to damage).

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 3:01 pm

No prob man...there are those who like short bows but trust me hit level 16 with strong arm or heartseeker or ripper and activate a called shot while hidden. Wham it will drop any mage on the spot and kill most monster before they reach you if you're hasted.

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 3:09 pm

I think you're still better going with shortbows. Yes, you get the +3/+3 for Strongarm, but with shortbows you have the option of either a +3 or +4 bow that doesn't need ammo, or a +1 bow that gives an extra attack and you can switch back and forth.

IMO the extra attack more than makes up for the extra damage, especially in the hands of an Archer against multiple targets. If you want high damage, drop in ice or piercing arrows. All it all, it's pretty close, but I like not having to worry about ammo all the time.

Pat Bou · Post by **Pat Bou** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 3:19 pm

Ammos are what the Archer is all about.

Equip +2 arrows in the first slot, biting arrows (poison) in the second slot and either piercing arrows +4 or dispelling arrows in the 3rd slot.

Switch from one to the other for maximum effects : shoot a poison arrow first at mages, then pummel them with +2 arrows after, or dispel their protections and finish them off.

Bows without ammos are great, but having +2 arrows loaded gives you an extra +2 to hit and damage. With the Strong Arm, that means a total of +5 to hit and damage. And there are plenty of arrows to find or to buy (and gold to spend).

Jeru da`Damaja · Post by **Jeru da`Damaja** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:27 pm

thanx guys i appreciate the response

Vehemence · Post by **Vehemence** » Tue Mar 06, 2001 11:39 pm

Go with the longbows and save the short bows for your thieves or thief/mages. The benefits of the longbows are IMO greater than the short bows.

Just a side thing, but I fired an arrow of Piercing (+4) at a vampire and he says "No effect" WTF??? Anyone care to clear that up for me? It was the vampire fighting the three shadow thieves early in the game... but that shouldn't matter right? Especially when she was getting hit by a +2 longsword from Keldorn.

The whole arrow thing needed to hit really bugs me some time. It'd be better if they used the bow to calculate the to hit thingie. ie, +3 bow means whatever arrow you have will still hit a +3 requiring monster.

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 12:04 am

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to go against the general consensus here. Short bows are the way to go. Having a thief use the shortbow of Gesen is a waste, since he/she can't even come to close to being as good with it as an archer can. A few points:

The Gesen bow requires no ammunition whatsoever, and fires +4 arrows; that's good enough to hit Kangaxx, something that no longbow can do regardless of arrows.
The Gesen bow does much more damage than regular arrows. It's a common misconception that longbows inherently do more damage; they don't.
Any type of arrow that you can load into a longbow, you can also load into the Gesen bow; you're not missing out in that respect.
The Gesen bow is the ultimate mage killer; enemy spell casters love stoneskin, but the Gesen bow's electrical damage will punch right through. Bye bye, mage.
Forged items rule.

Longbows have got nothing on the shortbow of Gesen. If you've already dumped all your points into longbows, and you're concerned about missing out, you can download Shadow Keeper. It will let you switch your mastery. That aside, it's also a very handy utility to have. Click [url="http://www.mud-master.com/shadowkeeper/ShadowKeeper.zip"]here[/url] to download Shadow Keeper.

[This message has been edited by TheHellion (edited 03-07-2001).]

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 3:08 am

I prefer the Long Bow considering I normally play elven rangers (Long Bow bonus). Also, I have a hard time imagining a ranger equipped with a Short Bow. Short Bows are for thieves in my book... Not to forget, you can get the excellent Court Bow very soon in the game (D'Arnise Keep).

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 3:09 am

Good points theHellion. But the whole point is you have a party.

With that +4 modifier, even a thief could hit someone with the Gesen.

So give your ranger Strongarm/Heartseeker.

Ever considered a cleric/ranger multi/dual (could be an archer/cleric if dualled) and giving them a sling? I think you'll like it

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 6:54 am

@Gruntboy.. I've actually tried that archer/cleric combo. The only problem with that is for some reason archers can only put 2 prof slots in slings.

Anyway as far a bows go...Yes the Gesan bow is a +4 weapon but you don't get it till very late in the game which makes it useless to me, plus the damage def does not come close to what the strongarm bow can do. If you are concerned about enemy mages and stone skin...you should use your archer as a scout and keep acid arrows in one of your slots. See a mage, activate your called shot...put an acid arrow into him before he can cast stoneskin then let your fighers finish him off as well as the acid.

Saigo · Post by **Saigo** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 7:42 am

As much as it pains me to do so, I have to agree with GruntBoy. One thing not mentioned is that to use Strongarm, you need 19 strenght. No problem, Ribald has the bow and the Girdle of Hill Giant Strenth. The best thing about this combination is that your archer, once the enemies get too close for bows, will make a powerful fighter in the thick of melee.

Another thing: at the beginning of the game, it takes forever to find a short bow. Your archer will be bowless for too long. BTW, since when are kobolds tall enough or strong enough to use compound longbows? That's another thing, without an 18 strength at the beginning, it STILL takes forever to find a bow you can use.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 8:05 am

Actually, you can find a very good short bow quite fast. All you need to do is complete the Trademeet quest. Then the merchants will sell to you and you can get a short bow +3 that doesn't require ammunition. I ususally steel it since I don't want to, or can't, pay the price for it.

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 8:26 am

Couple more things. Shortbows can use any ammo they want, they just don't have to use it when you're shooting kobolds/goblins/etc. So, you can have more space available for the good ammo.

Try hitting any creature that requires +3 or better to hit with a longbow...arrows of piercing give +4 to hit, but only count as +2. All other arrows are +2 or less. Only the Tansherons and Gessen arrows can do it.

Lets see...Strongarm vs Tuigan for max damage...

Strongarm: 4 Attacks, +3 from bow, +2 from arrow, +2 from Grand Mastery, +2 from Gauntlets of Weapon Mastery, +5 from level 17 Archer bonus, 1d6 normal arrow damage. Total expected damage ignoring the small possibility of misses (basically only on 1's with a high level archer): 4*17.5 = 70

Tuigan: 5 attacks, +1 from bow, +2 from arrow, +2 from Grand Mastery, +2 from Gauntlets of Weapon Mastery, +5 from level 17 Archer bonus, 1d6 normal arrow damage. Total expected damage: 5*15.5=77.5

If you put in Arrows of Ice (1d6 + 1d6 no save)
Strongarm: 4*(+3, +2, +2, +5, 2d6) = 4 * 19 = 76
Tuigan: 5*(+1, +2, +2, +5, 2d6 ) = 5 * 17 = 85

In either of these cases the Tuigan has a slight advantage in total damage inflicted. It also has the additional advantage of better spell disruption since it hits more often.

As far as availability, there are normal shortbows in Irenicus' dungeon and you can get the Tuigan almost immediately after exiting.

(Note: Above has been edited to reflect the +1 damage the Tuigan does that I forgot in the first pass)

[This message has been edited by Nighthawk (edited 03-07-2001).]

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 9:06 am

I'm not going to argue with your logic here because i don't have the time or patience to add numbers I just know what kind of damage i do with a short bow or a long bow. Really total damage is not the objective but amt of damage per hit for me = dead faster...If i can hit something 3 or 4 times to kill it instead of 5 or 6 times even if at 6 i would have done more damage i would take the dead at 3...wouldnt you?

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 9:08 am

One more thing i've noticed...using a longbow actually stops an advancing attacker for about half a second when they are moving towards you.

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 11:28 am

Long bow and Short bow when non-magical act exactly the same except the long bow gets bonus to-hit. Long bow probably should do more damage, but it doesn't. In general Long bows do hit harder than short bows, and especially Strong Arm hits harder with each hit. The problem is that the extra attack from the Tuigan is VERY powerful. Actually, against multiple foes more, smaller hits are better than fewer larger hits since less damage is wasted in over kill.

As far as the stopping effect, this happens to any creature getting hit so the Tuigan bow again has an advantage as it can do it more often.

[This message has been edited by Nighthawk (edited 03-07-2001).]

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Wed Mar 07, 2001 11:32 am

hmmm...im not sure what bows you are using but I am certain that long bows do a heck more damage than short bows magical or no...for example in irenicus dunguen using a short bow i do about 8 to 11 pts of damage. with a long bow i do about 11 to 15 pts of damage...this is on regular hits.