Bard Spellcasting

Illuman · Post by **Illuman** » Sun May 05, 2002 9:21 pm

Are bard spell tables influenced by intelligence like a wizards? Do bards gain extra spells per level if they have 18 int vs. say 13? Do the same int based spell scribing rules apply to the bard like they do for the mage?

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon May 06, 2002 12:29 am

i will get flamed, for this...bards are useless, they are mage capped at lv 4, or 5, thus you lose out on the killer spells...they were ok in soa, with its xp cap, but if you are in tob, try mage theif multi, or dual kensai into thief... they do have some nice abilities, like enhanced bard song, but the thief mage multi, once you get high level abilities, will be so much better...

Thrar · Post by **Thrar** » Mon May 06, 2002 1:43 am

bard spells r capped at lvl 6, and they r much better fighters (espec. blades) than mages, but worse than dual imo.
there is no spell bonus for high INT, only WIS for clerics (only for max number of scribed spells, but thats another thing INT potions r for). as bards have to scribe spells, they also have that % chance to do so successfully.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon May 06, 2002 2:17 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
i will get flamed, for this...bards are useless, they are mage capped at lv 4, or 5, thus you lose out on the killer spells...they were ok in soa, with its xp cap, but if you are in tob, try mage theif multi, or dual kensai into thief... they do have some nice abilities, like enhanced bard song, but the thief mage multi, once you get high level abilities, will be so much better...

Didn't you once admit to never having played a bard?

Well, bards are great! They make excellent teamplayers and it's a really fun class to play since you get a bit of everything. If you'd like to know more about them, simply make a search.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon May 06, 2002 2:44 am

took haer dalis with me for a while, tried bard songs, very disappointed, tried offensive spin, bored, tried defensive spin, yawn...

with good equipment, my tanks and mages can go in cold, and still whomp the livng daylights out of everyone...

still, the battle song is kinda nice, but not worth it.. all my npcs have a special killer one on one ability, like minsc is an archer, for example, and mazzie is undead hunter, and bards dont have that special umph that makes the char fun to play...

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Mon May 06, 2002 3:15 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
i will get flamed, for this...bards are useless, they are mage capped at lv 4, or 5, thus you lose out on the killer spells...they were ok in soa, with its xp cap, but if you are in tob, try mage theif multi, or dual kensai into thief... they do have some nice abilities, like enhanced bard song, but the thief mage multi, once you get high level abilities, will be so much better...

I have to agree with UUF, bards just don't have it, their no good mages, no good thiefs and no good fighters.

But I can see why people like the combinations.
You could see them as good solo character

GNGSpam · Post by **GNGSpam** » Mon May 06, 2002 3:36 pm

Bards are essentially horrible fighters who can cast low level spells (bards only reach to 6 and lvl 7 is THE key spell level) which are worthless in any of the challanging battles.

FUN =D

No seriously, if you want to have a combat mage, any number of fighter/mage variants is significantly better (dual classing to mage or even fighter/mage multi)

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Mon May 06, 2002 6:35 pm

Bards have a single advantage over mages with regard to spells that increase damage based on level such as Flame Arrow & Magic Missile. Since Bards level up faster, a Bard will do more damage than a mage with identical experience. This doesn't work with spells like Fireball that have a maximum damage of 15d6.

Bards work best as team players but their overall weakness makes them a fascinating, challenging option for solo play. This won't be appealing to people who go in for massively overpowered characters, but rather to those who like a tactical challenge.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue May 07, 2002 1:17 am

Originally posted by GNGSpam
Bards are essentially horrible fighters who can cast low level spells (bards only reach to 6 and lvl 7 is THE key spell level) which are worthless in any of the challanging battles.

Take a Blade. Have him throw Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Blur, Improved Invisibility and Tenser's. Activate Offensive Spin and let his two swords start their bloody work. Then tell me he's worthless in battle.

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Tue May 07, 2002 1:55 am

Originally posted by Astafas

Take a Blade. Have him throw Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Blur, Improved Invisibility and Tenser's. Activate Offensive Spin and let his two swords start their bloody work. Then tell me he's worthless in battle.

Let a sorcerer cast Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Blur, Improved Invisibility and Tenser's on a beserker. And he'll hack that bard to little pieces.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue May 07, 2002 2:11 am

cant cast stoneskin, or tensors on someone else, they can cast via scroll potion trick....

here is a trick with imp invisibility...never get it, get mass inv instead, cause at higher levels, it lasts longer, by quite a bit...

sorcs should never have tensors, what are you doing with that spell???!!!! fighter mages should not have tensors, either, since you lose that wonderful ability of the fighte rmage to hit g whirlwind and bash with vorpal blade...

only dual class kensai or berserker mages should EVER have tensors memorized...

it will disable ALL spell casting, even innates like whirlwind, the big advantage of the fighter mage multi, but its ok for duals, since you almost never have dualed late enough in the game to have whirlwinds in the first class, so most of the time you will cast via trigger or chain including impr haste so you are already ready to dice and slice...

the extra hp is so nice...

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue May 07, 2002 2:12 am

Originally posted by Stilgar

Let a sorcerer cast Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Blur, Improved Invisibility and Tenser's on a beserker. And he'll hack that bard to little pieces.

Don't you know that most of those spells can only be cast on the caster himself? So you are wrong. Also, the Bard will have a higher level than the Sorceror, making the spells more effective.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue May 07, 2002 2:14 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
only dual class kensai or berserker mages should EVER have tensors memorized...

it will disable ALL spell casting, even innates like whirlwind, the big advantage of the fighter mage multi, but its ok for duals, since you almost never have dualed late enough in the game to have whirlwinds in the first class, so most of the time you will cast via trigger or chain including impr haste so you are already ready to dice and slice...

the extra hp is so nice...

Ahum... and the Bards, alright?

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Tue May 07, 2002 2:42 am

Well Blades are really good I'd say. If you want to cast higher level spells there are always scrolls and with UAI you can wear Vhailor's helm so timestop is no problem. Timetrap, spiketrap anyone?
Fast levelling means really good remove magic at higher levels which is incredibly useful. Can use any weapon also very useful.
Dual wield Crom and scarlet ninja-to and you'll have three attacks per round and a good enough thac0. A very balanced and fun character to play IMO.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Tue May 07, 2002 2:45 am

Of course, bards are in trouble if they have a run-in with anyone wielding that sword you get from the elf in Suldanesselar, the one that kills bards instantly.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue May 07, 2002 2:48 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
Of course, bards are in trouble if they have a run-in with anyone wielding that sword you get from the elf in Suldanesselar, the one that kills bards instantly.

That's one good reason not to sell it, if ever there was one.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Tue May 07, 2002 2:55 am

Pity you don't get it in time for the Harper quests.

GNGSpam · Post by **GNGSpam** » Tue May 07, 2002 3:53 am

Also, the Bard will have a higher level than the Sorceror, making the spells more effective.

So your sole justification for a Bard is that he will be a higher level for his level 6 spells? Hmmm

Look its not tough

What does a bard do
Pickpocket
Lore
Mage spells to level 6
Some fighting skills

Compare this to any number of dual/multi class mage/fighter variants.

The mage/fighter has
More mage spells
Higher level (beyond 6) of mage spells
Better fighting skills
More hitpoints

Yes a Bard is a higher level allowing cumlative spells to reach a higher level, but ONLY level 6 spells and below. Lack of access tot he higher levels makes him significantly less powerful then a Mage.

Plus he isnt as good as a mage/fighter in nearly any shape or form.

In essence the sole thing a Bard has up on any mage/fighter combo is pickpocketing (nothing of value unless you cheat and get double Gaxx and double Ring of the Ram) and Lore (pointless with glasses of Identification, and silly to squibble over 100 gold)

Want to roleplay one? More power to you. But please please please dont pretend that they are in any shape or form a powerful class. If Bards could progress past level 6, itd be a different story.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue May 07, 2002 4:31 am

agreed, the lv 6 spells are the second biggest handicap of bards...

bards miss the best and most important thief skill....detecting and disarming traps!!!!!

if they had that, haer dalis would be in twice as many parties...no need for opening locks, knock is easy to get and cast...

so a bard is a crippled theif fighter and mage...on the theory that taking away the most powerful and useful abilities of the three classes and squishing the remaining junk together into one class stinks,,,,

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Tue May 07, 2002 5:24 am

IMO, bards should have been handled more like they are in IWD:HoW - where they have more than one bard song and can cast spells up to the eighth level.