BG2 in IWD2 - dream come true?

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 10:34 am

I've been given, after some discussion, a go-ahead by Buck Satan to start this thread. Before I say anything, though, I want to clarify (for the sake of formality): I am in no way associated with the author of the mod I'm about to describe, and I am not trying to advertise his site. I stumbled onto it only a few days ago and I found the general idea very exciting, and decided to share.

I've yet to finish IWD2 (Severed Hand at the moment) for the first time, and I know I'll finish it a second time and maybe a third in HoF mode... If I don't get totally bored after the second one. IWD2 is the pinnacle of the Infinity engine's possibilities, and the third edition rules are what makes it so compelling to me (had they been the same rules used in BG2, I would probably have quit playing somewhere around mid-game, just as it happened with IWD). The third edition is great from a P&P point of view; the game itself doesn't use a lot of it's potential possibilities (especially since it's just hack-and-slash basically). Anyhow - 3ed is the only thing keeping me playing IWD2, because the storyline is so simple and linear it hurts, and the side quests that consist of talk to this guy here, go kill that guy there, return to the previous guy are hardly quests at all. I'm guessing there are at least some people who share this dillema.

I'm also guessing that most of the people visiting this forum have played the BG series (I have recently finished BG2 + ToB for the third time), and I'll also go out on a limb and say most, if not all, of them loved it. I know I did. With the third edition of D&D rules out, however, the BG series has become a bit obsolete. Especially since (I can't stress this enough) the 3ed rules are a huge and brilliant improvement over past ones.

And it got me thinking... what would BG2 (the story we know and love, the NPCs we love and hate, the items, etc.) be like if it was made under 3ed rules? What if it was made upon the best Infinity engine release out there - IWD2? I can say without any doubt, that if such a possibility arised - I would gladly go out and pay a lot of money for the game I already know inside out, just to have the mentioned goodies implemented. Wouldn't you? But that won't happen (as far as I know).

And that was that, until, by absolute accident, I stumbled onto an Infinity game modding site. And I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that there is a mod in development that does exactly what I've been talking about. Better yet, it's in the Beta stage already. Isn't that great?

The link is in my signature, but just in case someone doesn't notice it down below, here it is: Icewind Gate 2. Go ahead and check it out (some info and tons of screenshots), and then come back and give me your thoughts on the matter. I'll try to bring updates on any news that might arise (then again, since I know of the site for only two days, I have no idea how fast the people involved are making progress and how often any updates are announced).

Till next time.

EDIT: Perhaps it's worth also mentioning that the mod will only use Shadows of Amn, but should it be met with enough attention, the authors will start working on Throne of Bhaal and perhaps other games as well (3ed Planescape: Torment anyone?).

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 1:12 pm

Fascintating stuff Aremah, thanks.

I found 3rd edition to be an exciting addition to the IWD formula. This would indeed breathe new life into BG2 and (maybe) ToB.

Cheers.

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 2:54 pm

This is going to be great!!!!
Good idea.

lonely wolf · Post by **lonely wolf** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 11:01 am

i just can't believe it!

smass · Post by **smass** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 2:30 pm

I think I just had a mini-heartattack. This is great new....happy, happy, joy, joy!

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 9:51 am

It's great to hear that everyone's excited, but for some reason I did expect something more than one-liners (smass' post was ok, though

)... Perhaps because for some reason I spent some time writing out all that irrelevant stuff in the first post

Anyways, the thing is that while it's a great thing overall, some changes might be a bit for the worse (in some styles of play), for example I get the feeling that dual-wielding is a bit nerfed in 3ed (and there are armor points for Shields, which is a significant gain in the new system). I have an extreme thing for dual-wielding (2-3 out of my 6 chars in BG2 were always double-wielders), so it's kind of sad to see it go... But then again I have yet to try it in IWD2 (I'm about to finish the game for my first time, and not one hero dual-wieldes simply because of my first "nerf" impression).

Any other ideas about the downsides of 3ed D&D in BG2?

smass · Post by **smass** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 3:27 pm

Seems like the most major changes will be with spellcasters - so much of the cheese strategies used in BGII have to do with spells like time stop, wish, simalcrum, project image and such - and these spells are gone.

Personally, I like this change as magic in BGII and 2nd edition is in general way too powerful IMHO.

Your point about dual wielding is well taken - I think most folks used dual wield so that they could use more of the multitude of cool weapons available - and the benefits of elemental damage/extra attacks.

However, I like the idea of this skill being tailor made for a ranger - makes the ranger class more interesting.

My take is this - I have played BGII enough times to be done with it if you will. The change to 3rd edition rules will give me a reason to revisit the game using different strategies than ones I used before.

There will be some things that I liked better in the 2nd edition rules version - but the point is to present a different gaming experience with 3e rules. Overall - I like IWDIIs implimentation of 3e rules - I like it better than the 2e rules in BGII. However BGII is far better from a story and quest standpoint - so for me it is a marriage of the best of both worlds.

How's that for a bit more than a one liner?

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:11 pm

Heh... Time Stop, Acceleration, Horrid Wilting (times x) was all I ever needed once I got them all

Horring Wiliting is "nerfed" in 3ed (hurts your own party members as well), but I have no problem with that.

I've just finished IWD2 for the first time, and after beating Isair and Madae (party members all lvl 16, normal difficulty), I used DaleKeeper to level up all of my characters to lvl 30, and all I have to say - I'm a bit disappointed by arcane level 9 spells (though Executioner's Eyes and Aegis definitely rock; supposedly so does Wail of the Banshee in IWD2 and NWN, but I haven't been able to kill anything with it, as in BG2 - perhaps Greater Magic Talent: Necromancy would have helped) and Cleric lvl 9 spells (Gate or Metor Shower, both pretty much useless for me), but as you say, it's a question of balance and 3ed is better. On the other hand, mages aren't as powerful if you attack them first, which in turn makes the Kangaxx quest (not to mention some lesser ones or the Twisted Rune for example) somewhat easier...

All in all, I see your point ("been there, done that" in almost every possible fashion), and I really can't wait to see BG2 in 3ed. Seems like it'll be a long wait, though, it's being done by one guy with several others helping with bugs in the Beta phase, after all...

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 4:18 am

Ok,
a little more then a one-liner this time.
(still think it will be great)

I do think arcanespellcasters will be a little less powerfull,
But clerics and druids on the other hand will be more powerfull.
(and shapeshifting will be usefull, whoohoo)

How will the kits from BG2 be in the IWDII-rules?
Would this mean you could create a kensai/sorcerer/assassin legal or are the kits removed? (hope not)

I'm very curious how it would turn out, I play IWDII very different then BGII,
for instance in BG2 I never used protective spells (or maybe a stoneskin for the mage but that's it)
In IWDII I cast 20 protective spells on everyone just to battle some trolls.

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 7:50 am

The kits will be gone, probably. Not certainly, but most probably. Just because, after all, it is an IWD2 mod that brings the entire BG2 story to the game, but works upon the improved IWD2 engine and 3ed rules (with tons of pros and just a few cons). There are no kits like the ones in 2ed anymore. There are, of course, prestige classes, but that's not implemented in the game (too bad, really).

lonely wolf · Post by **lonely wolf** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:34 am

Originally posted by Aremah
The kits will be gone, probably. Not certainly, but most probably. Just because, after all, it is an IWD2 mod that brings the entire BG2 story to the game, but works upon the improved IWD2 engine and 3ed rules (with tons of pros and just a few cons). There are no kits like the ones in 2ed anymore. There are, of course, prestige classes, but that's not implemented in the game (too bad, really).

oh well, after all it dosen't seem a good idea...

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:37 pm

Could be fun to replay BG2 with new rules ... maybe even UserUnfriendly will notice the 3E system trough this.

Manbeleth · Post by **Manbeleth** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 4:16 pm

Will I be able to choose a drow in Icewind Gate?

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:30 am

It's made upon the IWD2 engine, with all the rules that come with it. All the races, effective levels, 3ed kits, etc. Everything. It's just the old story and locations, but other than that - yes, you'll be able to do anything as in IWD2. There will even be the HoF mode (however unsupported).

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:39 am

The question everyone is dying to ask.
I couldn't find it on the site.

Anyone has any idea when it will be ready to download?

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:48 am

Actually, no-one knows. The person responsible for this is just one guy, after all. The beta testing is slow and cumbersome, for example, the game hangs up if you have character X and your party and talk with NPC Y choosing text line Z. All of these instances need to be eliminated and it takes A LOT of time, even with a lot of people helping the testing (whether they know anything about modding or not; the author is the only one actually changing the code) and the Critical Path testing aids (invulnerability and one-hit kills). They do have to play the entire game over and over in all the player and event configurations they can come up with. It could be a month, it could be half a year. We can just hope it's the first

Antimatter · Post by **Antimatter** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 2:08 pm

Wow. I was thinking of picking up IWD2 because I play NWN and decided I would like to try a party of 3ed ruleset characters. This cements it

.

Sorry for small oneliner...just amazed and happy...not much more to describe it.

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 3:36 am

I just discovered the IWG2 yesterday, also by accident. I can't wait to get my hands on this, it genuinly the best idea since sliced bread.
Major hot spots will be the subraces, multiclassing, new spells and icons, and hopefully it won't cost anything, like Wes' other mods. I won't mind if the kits from BG2 aren't there, I like the simplicity of the vanilla classes.