Voluntary Embrace?
- EnigmaMachine
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:31 pm
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Voluntary Embrace?
This may seem like a stupid question to all the old Vampire hands out there, but is the Embrace a voluntary act on the part of the "victim"? From my limited exposure to vampire literature, I'm assuming that the recipient drinks the blood of a vampire (once, or three times?) Could a victim be deceived or forced into receiving the Embrace? (e.g., Ivan the vampire has drained Ludmilla to the point of death, and in order to prevent her own demise Ludmilla *must* imbibe Ivan's blood.) For what reason does a vampire create new vampires? For loyal servants? Out of love? I'm seeking clarification for role-playing reasons. If a character sought out vampirism, he's probably a dark sort susceptible to the Beast. On the other hand, if it was forced on a character I can see where she might retain a great deal of humanity.
Any enlightenment would be greatly welcomed...
Any enlightenment would be greatly welcomed...
- pennypincher
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:21 pm
- Location: Australia! WOO!
- Contact:
Vamperism and You. By Pennypincher.
Written by Pennypincher.
Performed by Pennypincher
Edited by Nobody cos I'm lasy.. Lascee?.. Lazy!
Spoken by Cliver Barker.
Cliver Barker played by Pennypincher
Pennypincher played by a frying pan.
Vampierism is as follows. Victim is drained of blood. Blood is replaced with vampire blood. Person dies. Embrace takes hold (most of the time) and person rises from the grave, undead and nifty! Now as you can guess, that doesn't have to be something you really agree too.. I don't know too many people who would turn down imortality and power beyond measure, but if for some reason you didn't WANT that, after your fading from life from blood loss, it's sorta hard to stop someone pouring blood in your mouth.. And even if you knew what it was, a person instinct is to swallow when something is put in their mouth.. Either way, yes, you can force someone into the Embrace quite easily.
That being said, it isn't unheard of for people who don't want to be vampires to resist the act of rising from the dead. People with true faith, people who know the politics and fear already, people who just want the peace of the grave, all of these are candidates for death rather then undeath. It's not COMMON, but it sure can happen. This can be espeicaly annoying to a vampire, because the right to create a vampire is given out only under VERY speical circumstances (unless your the prince, then you do it any time you like) and so having your right revoked because "You tried and failed" is a real slap in the face.
Why make a vampire? Good question.. And the answer is, there is no one decent answer. What there ARE, is a lot of little answers that just over ride the vampires sense of logic after a while. Lets take a look at them:
Lonley: Yep, a vampire just might get sick of all his friends dying of old age... Or not having any vampire he can trust to talk to about what it's like to be undead. Maybe he just wants a friend that can be with him through all time, or maybe he wants a lover he can hold close in the wee hours of the morning before the fear of the sun drives him back to the dark? Whos knows? The fact is, however, that 100 years is a LONG time to be a solitary preadtor, and eventualy you're going to feel very.. VERY alone, espcialy when your not allowed to tell anyone anything about yourself.
Power: Ghouls are great, but they just don't have the power of a vampire. Eventualy, your going to want someone under your control who is A) Powerful enough to fight off other vampires face to face B) smart enough to control some of your influence C) capable of making their own ghouls! Think about it, if you have 3 ghouls, and those ghouls control an industrial plant, a chemist and a bank, then you have a lot of control over those things.. But if you have 3 ghouls and a Childe who has 3 ghouls.. Suddenly your power more then doubles!
Also, there are some things you just can't send a ghoul to do. Sure, you ghoul can deliver messages, get you blood, defend you during the day.. But wouldn't you rather your leiason with another prince was someone with presence 3? Or wouldn't you rather the person going to do the drug pick up was al but imune to bullets? I know I would.
Status: Being an awesome, powerful vampire earns you respect. Being able to MAKE an awesome powerful vampire earns you more respect again, and also earns your childe respect, which in turn, one again, earns you respect. Think of it like a respect pyramid scheme. You are cool, your child is cool, making you twice as cool. If your child gets cooler, you get cooler.. if your childe makes a childe who is cool, they get cooler, so you get EVEN cooler!!
Entertainment: Sometimes, you just have to wounder if you can raise a powerful vampire from one of these weak, flimsy, pathetic mortals. It takes a LOT of time and engery to train a young neonate in vampire politics, powers and life... And it can be quite exhilerating to watch them grow and learn and become a reflection of yourself. Like a tamagotchi, only if it dies, you don't feel too bad...
MINE!: Sometimes your enemies want to take a promising young mortal and turn them into a vampire. Whats the best way to deny them that? YOU make them a vampire. Now their intelligence is yours, their beauty, yours, their wits, yours... And their power? Yours!
Punishment: The nosferatue in particular are fond of finding arrogant, pompus, beautiful people.. And reducing them to twisted freaks. nothing suits the pallet better then the sound of your childe sobbing for their lost beauty in the room next to yours.. Whats the lesson here kids? Beauty is fleeting, brilliance is forever.
Preservation: Sometimes, you find a mortal whos so brilliant (like me) so thrilling (like me) so cunning (like me!) so beautiful (oh damm!! So close!) that you just can't stand to watch them age and die.. You KNOW theres something speical about them.. You KNOW they must live on forever and contiue to give the world... Whatever it was you saw in them. So, you make them imortal...
Saving Your Soul: Sometimes, your hungry.. And the mortal is hot, passionate, beautiful.. Delicious.. Sometimes you take to much.. And in horror, feeling your humanity cry out in anguish, you look down and realise your holding a corpse. What do you do?? What Do You DO!? You haveto save them.. Vampire blood! That heals mortals! It makes them strong.. Drink.. Drink please drink.. Don't die! Oh god don't die... It's working.. It's working.. No.. Somethings wrong.. they are cold.. Fangs... Oh my god........
.... You've made it worse...
As for the beast and people who are dark. You'll find people who are dark and brooding don't often get made into vampires. Vampires take one look at them, desperatly seeking imortality so they can be dark and broody longer and say "Why on earth would I want a childe like you??"... More often then not, they make easy snacks, convient one week ghouls, or just fun to play with and leave dying in an alley gasping for air and asking god "why" over and over again.. He he he ha ha ha ha! However, if they are dark, brooding, intelligent, strong willed, cunning, beautiful and powerful... Thats a different story. Those kind of people make useful vampries that someone would WANT to embrace.. And as an added bonus, their strength allows them to resist the urge of the beast.
Ironicaly, it's the whiney little pups that end up falling the fastest. Maybe they can't stand to feed off human blood, so they drink the blood of animals.. but it's thin and tasteless muck compared to mortal blood.. And mortal blood is everywhere.. Eventualy the beast rises up and demands human blood, but they fight it, each night they fight, untill one night the beast overcomes them and they frenzy, killing a whole family and draining them dry, laying in their blood and enjoying it.
So they feel bad about what they've done.. So maybe they go to a hopsital and give that blood to sick patients.. What a nice thing to do, healing all those sick people.. Untill the blood in them runs out, and they are addicted, and want more.. They demand more off the nurses, but the nurses only have pain killers, so they give them that! But then they are hooked on pain killers and STILL don't know what it is they crave so badly.. So they try harder and harder drugs, trying to find that same rush! That power! They kill for the durgs, sex, crime, whatever!! And so Mr goodey goodey two shoes loses MORE humanity.
So bob the whinner vampire decides to go away from all of humanity, and live in the wild places.. Where the werewolves inevitably find him, and he's forced to kill one.. And he spent so much blood trying to fight it, he has to have more! So he drinks the blood of the beast he slew, and suddenly his mind is filled with it's wild rage... 2 farm houses latter, and bob is full of blood and down MORE humanity. By this time, Bob should be low enough on the humanity chart that he can just move back to the city, shut his whiney gob and eat human blood like the rest of us! Pathetic little maggot!!
Of course, it does't always end up that way...
Written by Pennypincher.
Performed by Pennypincher
Edited by Nobody cos I'm lasy.. Lascee?.. Lazy!
Spoken by Cliver Barker.
Cliver Barker played by Pennypincher
Pennypincher played by a frying pan.
Vampierism is as follows. Victim is drained of blood. Blood is replaced with vampire blood. Person dies. Embrace takes hold (most of the time) and person rises from the grave, undead and nifty! Now as you can guess, that doesn't have to be something you really agree too.. I don't know too many people who would turn down imortality and power beyond measure, but if for some reason you didn't WANT that, after your fading from life from blood loss, it's sorta hard to stop someone pouring blood in your mouth.. And even if you knew what it was, a person instinct is to swallow when something is put in their mouth.. Either way, yes, you can force someone into the Embrace quite easily.
That being said, it isn't unheard of for people who don't want to be vampires to resist the act of rising from the dead. People with true faith, people who know the politics and fear already, people who just want the peace of the grave, all of these are candidates for death rather then undeath. It's not COMMON, but it sure can happen. This can be espeicaly annoying to a vampire, because the right to create a vampire is given out only under VERY speical circumstances (unless your the prince, then you do it any time you like) and so having your right revoked because "You tried and failed" is a real slap in the face.
Why make a vampire? Good question.. And the answer is, there is no one decent answer. What there ARE, is a lot of little answers that just over ride the vampires sense of logic after a while. Lets take a look at them:
Lonley: Yep, a vampire just might get sick of all his friends dying of old age... Or not having any vampire he can trust to talk to about what it's like to be undead. Maybe he just wants a friend that can be with him through all time, or maybe he wants a lover he can hold close in the wee hours of the morning before the fear of the sun drives him back to the dark? Whos knows? The fact is, however, that 100 years is a LONG time to be a solitary preadtor, and eventualy you're going to feel very.. VERY alone, espcialy when your not allowed to tell anyone anything about yourself.
Power: Ghouls are great, but they just don't have the power of a vampire. Eventualy, your going to want someone under your control who is A) Powerful enough to fight off other vampires face to face B) smart enough to control some of your influence C) capable of making their own ghouls! Think about it, if you have 3 ghouls, and those ghouls control an industrial plant, a chemist and a bank, then you have a lot of control over those things.. But if you have 3 ghouls and a Childe who has 3 ghouls.. Suddenly your power more then doubles!
Also, there are some things you just can't send a ghoul to do. Sure, you ghoul can deliver messages, get you blood, defend you during the day.. But wouldn't you rather your leiason with another prince was someone with presence 3? Or wouldn't you rather the person going to do the drug pick up was al but imune to bullets? I know I would.
Status: Being an awesome, powerful vampire earns you respect. Being able to MAKE an awesome powerful vampire earns you more respect again, and also earns your childe respect, which in turn, one again, earns you respect. Think of it like a respect pyramid scheme. You are cool, your child is cool, making you twice as cool. If your child gets cooler, you get cooler.. if your childe makes a childe who is cool, they get cooler, so you get EVEN cooler!!
Entertainment: Sometimes, you just have to wounder if you can raise a powerful vampire from one of these weak, flimsy, pathetic mortals. It takes a LOT of time and engery to train a young neonate in vampire politics, powers and life... And it can be quite exhilerating to watch them grow and learn and become a reflection of yourself. Like a tamagotchi, only if it dies, you don't feel too bad...
MINE!: Sometimes your enemies want to take a promising young mortal and turn them into a vampire. Whats the best way to deny them that? YOU make them a vampire. Now their intelligence is yours, their beauty, yours, their wits, yours... And their power? Yours!
Punishment: The nosferatue in particular are fond of finding arrogant, pompus, beautiful people.. And reducing them to twisted freaks. nothing suits the pallet better then the sound of your childe sobbing for their lost beauty in the room next to yours.. Whats the lesson here kids? Beauty is fleeting, brilliance is forever.
Preservation: Sometimes, you find a mortal whos so brilliant (like me) so thrilling (like me) so cunning (like me!) so beautiful (oh damm!! So close!) that you just can't stand to watch them age and die.. You KNOW theres something speical about them.. You KNOW they must live on forever and contiue to give the world... Whatever it was you saw in them. So, you make them imortal...
Saving Your Soul: Sometimes, your hungry.. And the mortal is hot, passionate, beautiful.. Delicious.. Sometimes you take to much.. And in horror, feeling your humanity cry out in anguish, you look down and realise your holding a corpse. What do you do?? What Do You DO!? You haveto save them.. Vampire blood! That heals mortals! It makes them strong.. Drink.. Drink please drink.. Don't die! Oh god don't die... It's working.. It's working.. No.. Somethings wrong.. they are cold.. Fangs... Oh my god........
.... You've made it worse...
As for the beast and people who are dark. You'll find people who are dark and brooding don't often get made into vampires. Vampires take one look at them, desperatly seeking imortality so they can be dark and broody longer and say "Why on earth would I want a childe like you??"... More often then not, they make easy snacks, convient one week ghouls, or just fun to play with and leave dying in an alley gasping for air and asking god "why" over and over again.. He he he ha ha ha ha! However, if they are dark, brooding, intelligent, strong willed, cunning, beautiful and powerful... Thats a different story. Those kind of people make useful vampries that someone would WANT to embrace.. And as an added bonus, their strength allows them to resist the urge of the beast.
Ironicaly, it's the whiney little pups that end up falling the fastest. Maybe they can't stand to feed off human blood, so they drink the blood of animals.. but it's thin and tasteless muck compared to mortal blood.. And mortal blood is everywhere.. Eventualy the beast rises up and demands human blood, but they fight it, each night they fight, untill one night the beast overcomes them and they frenzy, killing a whole family and draining them dry, laying in their blood and enjoying it.
So they feel bad about what they've done.. So maybe they go to a hopsital and give that blood to sick patients.. What a nice thing to do, healing all those sick people.. Untill the blood in them runs out, and they are addicted, and want more.. They demand more off the nurses, but the nurses only have pain killers, so they give them that! But then they are hooked on pain killers and STILL don't know what it is they crave so badly.. So they try harder and harder drugs, trying to find that same rush! That power! They kill for the durgs, sex, crime, whatever!! And so Mr goodey goodey two shoes loses MORE humanity.
So bob the whinner vampire decides to go away from all of humanity, and live in the wild places.. Where the werewolves inevitably find him, and he's forced to kill one.. And he spent so much blood trying to fight it, he has to have more! So he drinks the blood of the beast he slew, and suddenly his mind is filled with it's wild rage... 2 farm houses latter, and bob is full of blood and down MORE humanity. By this time, Bob should be low enough on the humanity chart that he can just move back to the city, shut his whiney gob and eat human blood like the rest of us! Pathetic little maggot!!
Of course, it does't always end up that way...
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
- Rhydderch Hael
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:55 pm
- Contact:
[QUOTE=EnigmaMachine]This may seem like a stupid question to all the old Vampire hands out there, but is the Embrace a voluntary act on the part of the "victim"? From my limited exposure to vampire literature, I'm assuming that the recipient drinks the blood of a vampire (once, or three times?) Could a victim be deceived or forced into receiving the Embrace? (e.g., Ivan the vampire has drained Ludmilla to the point of death, and in order to prevent her own demise Ludmilla *must* imbibe Ivan's blood.) For what reason does a vampire create new vampires? For loyal servants? Out of love? I'm seeking clarification for role-playing reasons. If a character sought out vampirism, he's probably a dark sort susceptible to the Beast. On the other hand, if it was forced on a character I can see where she might retain a great deal of humanity.
Any enlightenment would be greatly welcomed...[/QUOTE]
Courtesy of Bertie: "From what I gather, the humans (guarding the Santa Monica warehouse) seem to know the score. It looks like they're hoping to become the next graduating class of shovelheads. Losers..."
Even in-game, being embraced into vampirism on a voluntary basis is known. Though what Bertram Tung was speaking about concerned the Sabbat, the Camarilla practice of seeking Princely permission to Embrace someone does carry with it the implied determination that prospective sire and childe have planned this out beforehand.
Often enough, the prospective childe may have been one of the the vampire's ghouls, "graduating" to the next level after proving their worth and cultivating an emotional history together.
Any enlightenment would be greatly welcomed...[/QUOTE]
Courtesy of Bertie: "From what I gather, the humans (guarding the Santa Monica warehouse) seem to know the score. It looks like they're hoping to become the next graduating class of shovelheads. Losers..."
Even in-game, being embraced into vampirism on a voluntary basis is known. Though what Bertram Tung was speaking about concerned the Sabbat, the Camarilla practice of seeking Princely permission to Embrace someone does carry with it the implied determination that prospective sire and childe have planned this out beforehand.
Often enough, the prospective childe may have been one of the the vampire's ghouls, "graduating" to the next level after proving their worth and cultivating an emotional history together.
[QUOTE=EnigmaMachine]This may seem like a stupid question to all the old Vampire hands out there, but is the Embrace a voluntary act on the part of the "victim"? From my limited exposure to vampire literature, I'm assuming that the recipient drinks the blood of a vampire (once, or three times?) Could a victim be deceived or forced into receiving the Embrace? [/QUOTE]
Pennypincher covered this topic really well, but I had a little to add to the answer.
Remember in the tutorial section of this game, when Jack refers to newly-embraced Sabbat members as "shovelheads"? That's actually a fairly literal description of how the Sabbat recruit some of their members. They sneak up on normal people and hit them over the head with a shovel to knock them unconscious. Then the Sabbat drain that mortal dry, and then force-feed them some fresh vampire blood, straight from the vein.
Then the Sabbat bury a bunch of these "shovel-heads" in a mass grave in a nearby graveyard, waiting for them to become undead, claw their way to the surface and launch themselves at the nearest source of blood in a frenzy. Kind of a hardcore vampire hazing initiation.
The Sabbat tends to use these tactics when they conduct a crusade to overthrow Camarilla control of a given city. It's surprising that these blood drives don't attract more negative attention from the Society of Leopold, the newer Hunters, the garou, or the Technocracy. I hate the Sabbat.
Pennypincher covered this topic really well, but I had a little to add to the answer.
Remember in the tutorial section of this game, when Jack refers to newly-embraced Sabbat members as "shovelheads"? That's actually a fairly literal description of how the Sabbat recruit some of their members. They sneak up on normal people and hit them over the head with a shovel to knock them unconscious. Then the Sabbat drain that mortal dry, and then force-feed them some fresh vampire blood, straight from the vein.
Then the Sabbat bury a bunch of these "shovel-heads" in a mass grave in a nearby graveyard, waiting for them to become undead, claw their way to the surface and launch themselves at the nearest source of blood in a frenzy. Kind of a hardcore vampire hazing initiation.
The Sabbat tends to use these tactics when they conduct a crusade to overthrow Camarilla control of a given city. It's surprising that these blood drives don't attract more negative attention from the Society of Leopold, the newer Hunters, the garou, or the Technocracy. I hate the Sabbat.
- EnigmaMachine
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:31 pm
- Contact:
Pennypincher, thanks for filling me in on the Embrace and the actual reasons why a vampire would pass on his curse. Loneliness makes sense, but I didn't immediately think of punishment or "saving" a person by giving them immortality. I was asking because I was trying to figure out why the player's sire would risk final death to create a vampire against the wishes of the Prince. (For that matter, how did the Camarilla find out about it so fast in the first place?) I've only just now made it downtown, so these questions might be answered later.
The consequences of being a "whiney little pup" are interesting as well. Is feeding on animal blood so unsatisfying as to produce a frenzy? As the vampire gets older, yes, he may not be able to feed on animal blood but a "fresh" vampire ought to be able to meet his needs by feeding on lesser creatures. At least, that's how Bloodlines works. Are things different in PnP? And what do the Inconnu say about morality amongst the Kindred? (I'm very curious about the Inconnu.)
Anyways, thanks for giving me such a detailed and amusing explanation.
The consequences of being a "whiney little pup" are interesting as well. Is feeding on animal blood so unsatisfying as to produce a frenzy? As the vampire gets older, yes, he may not be able to feed on animal blood but a "fresh" vampire ought to be able to meet his needs by feeding on lesser creatures. At least, that's how Bloodlines works. Are things different in PnP? And what do the Inconnu say about morality amongst the Kindred? (I'm very curious about the Inconnu.)
Anyways, thanks for giving me such a detailed and amusing explanation.
SPOILER
Unfortunately, the question of why the character was embraced is never really answered. Much as the answer to why the player is able to do so many remarkable things in just a few weeks of unlife is never answered.
It's basically stated at one point that the player character's sire is an Anarch. Los Angeles, as you will soon learn, was an Anarch Free State from 1943 until the Kuei-Jin come to town in 1999, and the Camarilla arrived somewhat later (though this last part is new to the Bloodlines game, and not part of any other White Wolf literature). Still, there is a substantial Anarch present in the city, who don't officially recognize the Camarilla as having authority and hence do not follow their customs (such as requesting permission to sire). However, the Prince considers himself the "Prince of L.A.," and, therefore, he believes he holds domain over the Anarchs - even as they disagree. As such, his sheriff will track down and bring to justice any who sire without the prince's permission, regardless of whether they consider themselves part of the Camarilla. So, its basically assumed, that the player's sire was simply exercising his/her believed sense of entitlement in bringing the player into unlife.
To answer some of your other questions - In pen and paper, younger vampires (really up until a fairly substantial age) can exist on the blood of animals (excepting Ventrue, of course). This blood is rarelly as satisfying as mortal blood, and it generally takes much more of it to exist. It can also lead to a social stigma among fellow Kindred. As such, its rare for Kindred to do such. As Kindred age (and this is tied in with humanity ratings, as well, in the official literature) eventually animal blood and, subsequently, human blood will cease to satisfy their needs.
In regard to the Inconnu, it is difficult to describe that body's views on morality. The Inconnu is a very mysterious group; it is made up of older Kindred who have withdrawn from the politics of the Camarilla and Sabbat. By appearances they are only loosely an "organization" and one that seems devoid of any actual party-line or leadership, at that. Many in the Inconnu are pursuing the path of Golconda, which is a sort of a rumored Enlightenment that frees the Kindred from some of the trappings from the Beast. Those who are pursuing Golconda generally have more "enlightened" views of feeding. They strive to only take blood from their victims willingly, and never kill when feeding. At least, that's the normal rule. Still, keep in mind, that the kindred in Inconnu are typically so old that they are far removed from traditional notions of morality that you and I have.
Unfortunately, the question of why the character was embraced is never really answered. Much as the answer to why the player is able to do so many remarkable things in just a few weeks of unlife is never answered.
It's basically stated at one point that the player character's sire is an Anarch. Los Angeles, as you will soon learn, was an Anarch Free State from 1943 until the Kuei-Jin come to town in 1999, and the Camarilla arrived somewhat later (though this last part is new to the Bloodlines game, and not part of any other White Wolf literature). Still, there is a substantial Anarch present in the city, who don't officially recognize the Camarilla as having authority and hence do not follow their customs (such as requesting permission to sire). However, the Prince considers himself the "Prince of L.A.," and, therefore, he believes he holds domain over the Anarchs - even as they disagree. As such, his sheriff will track down and bring to justice any who sire without the prince's permission, regardless of whether they consider themselves part of the Camarilla. So, its basically assumed, that the player's sire was simply exercising his/her believed sense of entitlement in bringing the player into unlife.
To answer some of your other questions - In pen and paper, younger vampires (really up until a fairly substantial age) can exist on the blood of animals (excepting Ventrue, of course). This blood is rarelly as satisfying as mortal blood, and it generally takes much more of it to exist. It can also lead to a social stigma among fellow Kindred. As such, its rare for Kindred to do such. As Kindred age (and this is tied in with humanity ratings, as well, in the official literature) eventually animal blood and, subsequently, human blood will cease to satisfy their needs.
In regard to the Inconnu, it is difficult to describe that body's views on morality. The Inconnu is a very mysterious group; it is made up of older Kindred who have withdrawn from the politics of the Camarilla and Sabbat. By appearances they are only loosely an "organization" and one that seems devoid of any actual party-line or leadership, at that. Many in the Inconnu are pursuing the path of Golconda, which is a sort of a rumored Enlightenment that frees the Kindred from some of the trappings from the Beast. Those who are pursuing Golconda generally have more "enlightened" views of feeding. They strive to only take blood from their victims willingly, and never kill when feeding. At least, that's the normal rule. Still, keep in mind, that the kindred in Inconnu are typically so old that they are far removed from traditional notions of morality that you and I have.
- pennypincher
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:21 pm
- Location: Australia! WOO!
- Contact:
Aim to please mate!
Sorry, yes, I did forget about the Shovelhead mass embrace amoung the sabbat.. They don't really think about it ahead of time much. They figure "Another cold body bewteen us and the antedeluvians is awesome".. This does leave a lot of useless, whelp vampires running around hissing and bearing fangs, so thats another way to join the ranks of the undead. Also, promotion of ones favoured ghouls is.. Uncommon, but heard of. After all, if its your best ghoul, why get rid of it by making it a vampire? Then you have to make another ghoul just as good as the last one...
As for why your Sire in game did it... Well, I had a theory in my head, and it's full of holes (both head and theory), but here it is:
Your sire is said to be an "upstanding" member of the camerilla, suggesting to me they were well known to the prince, and maybe even had some status. I thought, maybe, the sire had patritioned the prince for the right of progeny, and the prince had declined.. For whatever reason.. Maybe the two had an arangment before hand and the prince failed to uphold his end once he had what he wanted... lacroix does seem to tend to do that a fair bit... So the sire got enraged. Swore he/she would have a childe, with or without the princes permission.. Maybe she/he had been watching you for months, maybe even years.. Yearning for you, longging to make you theres...Then to be denyed after so much work!
So, the prince sends the sherif to watch your sire.. And one night his/her true colours shine through, when what started as a feeding turns into an embrace... And our dear sherif is there to save the day of course, much to your sires dismay.
Realising she/he had been over come by the lust of the beast, all he/she can do is hang her head in shame, while the sherif removes it.
Of course, if your sire is a malkavian, voices from his/her teeth may have convinced her/him that their time was up and yours was just starting... *shrugs* Those are my theories.. Again, full of little holes, and feel free to stick your fingers into those holes and wiggle them around.
As for animal blood, think of it like this. Every day for 50 years, I bring you, once a day, a bowl of glue and bread crumbs. It's disgusting, it makes you feel ill, it just isn't good and you hate it... Then suddenly one day, I bring in a bowl of the disgusting slop, and a tender, juciy, marinated eye filet, lightly garnished with herbs and spices, a side order of roasted potatos and vegetables, spirkled with peper, a dish of soup with bread crumbs lightly sprinkled on it's hot surface and some fine wine of your choice to go with the feast.. Which one are YOU going to eat?
Sorry, yes, I did forget about the Shovelhead mass embrace amoung the sabbat.. They don't really think about it ahead of time much. They figure "Another cold body bewteen us and the antedeluvians is awesome".. This does leave a lot of useless, whelp vampires running around hissing and bearing fangs, so thats another way to join the ranks of the undead. Also, promotion of ones favoured ghouls is.. Uncommon, but heard of. After all, if its your best ghoul, why get rid of it by making it a vampire? Then you have to make another ghoul just as good as the last one...
As for why your Sire in game did it... Well, I had a theory in my head, and it's full of holes (both head and theory), but here it is:
Your sire is said to be an "upstanding" member of the camerilla, suggesting to me they were well known to the prince, and maybe even had some status. I thought, maybe, the sire had patritioned the prince for the right of progeny, and the prince had declined.. For whatever reason.. Maybe the two had an arangment before hand and the prince failed to uphold his end once he had what he wanted... lacroix does seem to tend to do that a fair bit... So the sire got enraged. Swore he/she would have a childe, with or without the princes permission.. Maybe she/he had been watching you for months, maybe even years.. Yearning for you, longging to make you theres...Then to be denyed after so much work!
So, the prince sends the sherif to watch your sire.. And one night his/her true colours shine through, when what started as a feeding turns into an embrace... And our dear sherif is there to save the day of course, much to your sires dismay.
Realising she/he had been over come by the lust of the beast, all he/she can do is hang her head in shame, while the sherif removes it.
Of course, if your sire is a malkavian, voices from his/her teeth may have convinced her/him that their time was up and yours was just starting... *shrugs* Those are my theories.. Again, full of little holes, and feel free to stick your fingers into those holes and wiggle them around.
As for animal blood, think of it like this. Every day for 50 years, I bring you, once a day, a bowl of glue and bread crumbs. It's disgusting, it makes you feel ill, it just isn't good and you hate it... Then suddenly one day, I bring in a bowl of the disgusting slop, and a tender, juciy, marinated eye filet, lightly garnished with herbs and spices, a side order of roasted potatos and vegetables, spirkled with peper, a dish of soup with bread crumbs lightly sprinkled on it's hot surface and some fine wine of your choice to go with the feast.. Which one are YOU going to eat?
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
Why your sire did it
My own theory about why your sire embraced you.
The conflicts in LA are well known by all Kindred. Your sire is said to be an upstanding member of the Camarilla, but that could just mean they attended all functions and didn't speak out. LaCroix would have wanted to be dramatic to make your sire's death that much more meaningful.
So your sire knows he or she may be killed, but they also know about the Anarchs and Nines. Maybe your sire figured Nines wouldn't let him or her be killed. Or that he could hide you for long enough for you both to leave. Or maybe he/she made you knowing he/she would be killed and figured you'd be spared and the experience would give you motivation to fix things in LA. Your sire isn't a neonate by any stretch. As his childe, you're able to get a good deal of power. There are other vampires that your sire knows will aid you. You're not as defenseless as you seem to be.
Maybe your sire was just in the Cam to keep an eye on them and you're his weapon to take them down.
If your sire was a Malk, then they probably knew what was coming and brought you into play to figure things out and bring about the end.
The only real problem I have with the whole scenario is the Tremere. They don't usually just go and Embrace without permission. Even if the Prince didn't know, the Regent would have. Or should have. And he shouldn't have let your sire be killed. Unless the Regent wanted him out anyway, and then he would have wanted you only to manipulate. Maybe. I'm thinking about this way too much.
My own theory about why your sire embraced you.
The conflicts in LA are well known by all Kindred. Your sire is said to be an upstanding member of the Camarilla, but that could just mean they attended all functions and didn't speak out. LaCroix would have wanted to be dramatic to make your sire's death that much more meaningful.
So your sire knows he or she may be killed, but they also know about the Anarchs and Nines. Maybe your sire figured Nines wouldn't let him or her be killed. Or that he could hide you for long enough for you both to leave. Or maybe he/she made you knowing he/she would be killed and figured you'd be spared and the experience would give you motivation to fix things in LA. Your sire isn't a neonate by any stretch. As his childe, you're able to get a good deal of power. There are other vampires that your sire knows will aid you. You're not as defenseless as you seem to be.
Maybe your sire was just in the Cam to keep an eye on them and you're his weapon to take them down.
If your sire was a Malk, then they probably knew what was coming and brought you into play to figure things out and bring about the end.
The only real problem I have with the whole scenario is the Tremere. They don't usually just go and Embrace without permission. Even if the Prince didn't know, the Regent would have. Or should have. And he shouldn't have let your sire be killed. Unless the Regent wanted him out anyway, and then he would have wanted you only to manipulate. Maybe. I'm thinking about this way too much.
- Rhydderch Hael
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Brujah, Gangrel, Nosferatu, and even Malkavian can probably be explained away as Anarch sensibilities. The Toreador or Ventrue sires probably were putzes who thought they could get away with it.
But I'm still trying to wrap my head around how, in the in-game story logic, a character's Tremere sire arrived at the decision to risk this.
Probably they saw a great, hidden potential in your character and thought that it was important enough to try the Embrace despite the grave risk of going against both the laws of the Camarilla and the order of the clan. Probably he/she saw something unique and very important, and that is what allows your character to become the most kick*** fledgling in all of Kindred society.
As to Strauss and his inability to save the sire, he probably caught a lot of flak from LaCroix about the crime, and the only way Strauss could save face was to allow the punishment to commence.
But I'm still trying to wrap my head around how, in the in-game story logic, a character's Tremere sire arrived at the decision to risk this.
Probably they saw a great, hidden potential in your character and thought that it was important enough to try the Embrace despite the grave risk of going against both the laws of the Camarilla and the order of the clan. Probably he/she saw something unique and very important, and that is what allows your character to become the most kick*** fledgling in all of Kindred society.
As to Strauss and his inability to save the sire, he probably caught a lot of flak from LaCroix about the crime, and the only way Strauss could save face was to allow the punishment to commence.
Given, the Tremere was the most poorly thought out as far as the "Anarch" line. There are certainly a large number of Ventrue antitribi associated with the Anarch movement. Likewise, there are a fair number of Malkavian, Toreador, Gangrel, definitely Brujah, and some Nosferatu. Finding a Tremere outside of the pyramid is incredibly odd, though. But *shrug* its a game. I guess they wanted to increase the options, even if it seemed a bit of a stretch.
Well, I'm wondering about something else considering embrace:
In game our character have 15 blood points which would make him/her an 8th generation vampire acording to the PnP game. If that is true I'm finding it really difficult to belive that a 7th generation vampire would allow himself/herself to be killed like our sire did. Maybe that person that is decapitated in the teather was not are sire but a dupe set by a elder?
In game our character have 15 blood points which would make him/her an 8th generation vampire acording to the PnP game. If that is true I'm finding it really difficult to belive that a 7th generation vampire would allow himself/herself to be killed like our sire did. Maybe that person that is decapitated in the teather was not are sire but a dupe set by a elder?
The sire may have lost the will to live. Does sometimes happen to vamps that have been around a long time. He did his thing and has passed the torch on.
Or...I know! You are the Sire! The one that was killed was the childe. You used Dominate or Dementation or some other wonky mind power to convince everyone you were your own childe and the childe was you. Some poor sap took the fall for it! And that's why you're so powerful. You just have to pretend to be a neonate for a while. This is also why everyone tells you so much--somewhere in the back of their minds, they recognize you. Or fear you.
There. I solved it. Where's my cookie? Is it with my pills? I didn't get my pills this morning. I need my pills.
Or...I know! You are the Sire! The one that was killed was the childe. You used Dominate or Dementation or some other wonky mind power to convince everyone you were your own childe and the childe was you. Some poor sap took the fall for it! And that's why you're so powerful. You just have to pretend to be a neonate for a while. This is also why everyone tells you so much--somewhere in the back of their minds, they recognize you. Or fear you.
There. I solved it. Where's my cookie? Is it with my pills? I didn't get my pills this morning. I need my pills.