Attention Female Players!

Ariona · Post by **Ariona** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:54 pm

Attention Female Players! (Female main characters)

I am a female playing a female lead character. I was wondering if there were others out there. Have you encountered situations where the rest of the party acted any differently toward each other than having the lead character be male? (i.e. Romances, behavior patterns, etc.) I am a first time player of the BG series...starting with BG2.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:06 am

Ariona, is this a thread about starting parties in BG2? Because if not--if it's about roleplaying, say, in a PnP environment--then it really belongs under RPG Discussions or Speak Your Mind (SYM). I'm just thinking in terms of where it fits best to get the replies it needs.

And welcome to the forums.

Ariona · Post by **Ariona** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:47 pm

I guess it would fall under RPG discussions. I'm so new to this type of forum, it's not even funny. Pardon me if I seem to be a little lost for the moment. I will find my way soon. Thanks for helping me get the best possible feedback, and thank you for the welcome! I really do appreicate it!

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:15 pm

A lot of women play computer roleplaying games. I almost always play female characters.

When it comes to BG2, the gender of your main character doesn't affect the main storyline, but it does affect the reactions of some of the NPCs (those who can join your party as well as those who can't). One female NPC in your party will make the remark that she enjoys adventuring with other women because "men steal all the blankets", and a male NPC in your party might hit on you in jest. You might meet a female tavernkeeper who respects women but makes disaparaging remarks about men. And there are a few other NPC reactions like that.

The main difference between playing a male character and playing a female character is the chance to romance one (or more) of the NPCs in your party. The standard game gives male characters three different women to choose from, while female characters are stuck with only one man who will romance them. If you download an unofficial "mod" to add new characters to your game, you might get more choices. The Kelsey Mod is probably the best-known mod, and you might enjoy romancing Kelsey. (Personally, I couldn't stand him, but I have a lot of respect for the mod and I think it is very well-written.)

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:41 pm

Since this thread appears to deal with the way a living party relates to one another while playing D&D games, I'm giong to move it to SYM--that's the Speak Your Mind forum--because it will get many responses there, and because the subject of gender bias in gaming has been discussed several times in SYM. But I'll leave a refer here in BG2, so people will see it and be able to post, as well.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:36 am

[QUOTE=VonDondu]The standard game gives male characters three different women to choose from, while female characters are stuck with only one man who will romance them. [/QUOTE]
Indeed, and it's so unfair

I wouldn't romance with Anomen if it was a choice between him and an ice troll!

It's a pity there are limited choices for women in BG2

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:36 am

I remember speaking to one of the Bioware BG2 development team at a conference, where he told me they'd initially planned a romance for Valygar. It was dropped because of time constraints. That certainly doesn't excuse anything; it only points out that Bioware thought they'd have a lot more male players (or players desiring female romances) than female--and that's wrong.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:18 am

Yes, I am male, but honestly, I view a woman who plays video/computer games as equals in talent, but almost otherwise like a friend, mainly because...

1) I get along better with women than I do with other guys. I often talk more with the opposite gender, for that reason.

2) Even at 21, I'm still quite fascinated with games, and the people that play them. Not everything to my life, but definitely something in it.

How many female players play female protagonists is intruiging, but not really the biggest thing on my mind, unfortunately.

However, for RPGs that emphasize more of a player-built party rather than one player-built character & interactive NPCs, I play such games with at least one character I make who is female, often running half & half gender-wise. How much player & character gender vary, I wouldn't mind to know.

Back to main topic: I second Vonnie's advice. I have heard many interesting things about Kelsey myself, so I'd say you might want to download that mod and give him a go.

Brynn: What about us unloved Dwarves and Halflings?! Our own women make us sick, and all other she-humanoids shun us!

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:29 am

There are, admittedly, a lot of people who find Anomen rather annoying, but if you can put up with him, the romance isn't so bad.

It also allows you to affect the development of his character.

Aside from that, I don't know if you have reached the Underdark and Ust Natha yet, @Ariona, but males and females get different reactions there because of their different status in the matriarchal drow society.

I nearly always play female characters, like VonDondu.

Welcome to SYM, btw

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:30 am

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]Brynn: What about us unloved Dwarves and Halflings?! Our own women make us sick, and all other she-humanoids shun us!

[/QUOTE]

I am pretty sure that i am not Brynn..
But i will answer anyway..

So are you saying that dwarf and halfling females are though as ugly?

As for Halflings.. someway human females just love halflings.. perhaps becuse the smaller the man.. the bigger is the thing between legs.

As for Dwarves.. havent you seen LOTR? Haven't you red books by Elaine Cunningham and Terry Pratchet? You should know that male Dwarfs are quite charmin..

heh...

But Half-Orcs are treated worst.. Well if you look at stereotype.. but then if you look at D&D stereotype.. every race sucks.. except elves..

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:36 am

[QUOTE=Ariona]Have you encountered situations where the rest of the party acted any differently toward each other than having the lead character be male?[/QUOTE]

I've noticed this in general in MMORPGs, or even simple online conversations. Online gaming veterans will tell you that if you're new to a game, you should start up a female character, as most males in the games are played by males in reallife, and will react with more courtesy and offers of assistance to female characters. I perceive this as an example of machoism among gamers, who think women need to be "protected;" and, of course, that any perceived reality is accurate. So a female character is played by a woman, in reallife.

I've tried female and male characters, and can see the behavior differences. Sometimes they're subtle; at other times, they become revoltingly obvious. They're a good indicator of the way gender perceptions and stereotyping continue to persist even in modernday Euro-American urban culture--at least, among young players whose peer groups reinforce such behavior.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:18 am

[QUOTE=fable]I've noticed this in general in MMORPGs, or even simple online conversations. Online gaming veterans will tell you that if you're new to a game, you should start up a female character, as most males in the games are played by males in reallife, and will react with more courtesy and offers of assistance to female characters. I perceive this as an example of machoism among gamers, who think women need to be "protected;" and, of course, that any perceived reality is accurate. So a female character is played by a woman, in reallife.

I've tried female and male characters, and can see the behavior differences. Sometimes they're subtle; at other times, they become revoltingly obvious. They're a good indicator of the way gender perceptions and stereotyping continue to persist even in modernday Euro-American urban culture--at least, among young players whose peer groups reinforce such behavior.[/QUOTE]

Only in USA.. as for that macho thing.. it is pretty much dead.. atleast i ahvent seen such things.. and in ten years majority of players will be girls. Or so i belive.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:52 am

[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]Only in USA.. as for that macho thing.. it is pretty much dead.. [/quote]

I can't agree with this. I've played MMORPGs since before the term was invented, back on DOS-based GEnie, and I still occasionally pop into some new MUD, MUCK or MUSH just to get a sense of the different social dynamics at work. The machoism still seems to be in force, and it has nothing to do with country of origin. Though it is my general impression--for what little it's worth--that the southern European and South American nations have more a macho culture. Certainly the Italians and Spanish are famous for this, not entirely without reason.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:57 am

[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]As for Dwarves.. havent you seen LOTR? Haven't you red books by Elaine Cunningham and Terry Pratchet? You should know that male Dwarfs are quite charmin..

heh...[/QUOTE]

What Elaine Cunningham books have Dwarf characters, I'd love to know.

Pratchet I did try to read at one point, but it really didn't latch on to me.

However, any Cunningham book suggestions you may have, I'd advise to put them into my D&D/Forgotten books suggestion thread in the D&D forum (which is here) for the sake of not driving this thread completely off-topic.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:07 am

As for that book called by ''Thornhold'' written by Elaine Cunningham..

It could be just Finnish translation.. but in that book you are gently pointed towards of certain interracial experiements and at the end of that book that female human and that male dwarf are little bit more than friends.. even that book doesn't state anything.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:14 pm

[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]Only in USA.. as for that macho thing.. it is pretty much dead.. atleast i ahvent seen such things..[/QUOTE]
I don't think it always happens because boys are trying to act macho. I think that boys are nice to girls just because the boys want the girls to like them.

Ariona · Post by **Ariona** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:25 pm

I have been at the point where Minsc asks Aerie to be his witch. Could that mean the start of a romance between the two...and how long do you estimate it to be before the others get involved in one themselves? And how exactly do you make a mod to get things really cooking. I am interested in viewing reactions between the party members and how it affects their abilities when fighting evil or each other...or even fighting in each others defense.

By the way, I am not playing just for the romance...I play for the adventure too!

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:31 pm

[QUOTE=Ariona]I have been at the point where Minsc asks Aerie to be his witch. Could that mean the start of a romance between the two...and how long do you estimate it to be before the others get involved in one themselves?[/quote]

Unfortunately, nothing further happens in the relationship area. I speculated in a review when the game first appeared that it would have been great if colleagues who liked one another reinforced positive qualities when in the group for some time, and that we should see some changes to stats--or perhaps some stats improve a little quicker than might otherwise prove the case.

There is *one* change that occurs for Minsc as a result of taking a fancy to Aerie. I won't explain what it is, and wreck it for you. It's not a major one, but I'm sure you'll discover it in the course of your future battles.

And how exactly do you make a mod to get things really cooking. I am interested in viewing reactions between the party members and how it affects their abilities when fighting evil or each other...or even fighting in each others defense.

That would have required a high level of AI, and Bioware has traditionally put AI as a very low priority. Your party is much safer if you turn off the AI, as a result, and direct battles yourself. But it's a great idea.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:35 pm

Ariona, have you played BG1? in BG, Minsc had a witch-ranger relationship with a witch. So, he wants another witch, and Aerie fits his needs. Can you see Minsc dating her? Play a bit more and tell us the outcome.

Now, if you play for adventure, you're in the right path!!!

BG is an excelent way of having fun in a rainy night, or when you got nothing else to do.

Tell me, so far what is the better part of the game you've been to?

Djiraan · Post by **Djiraan** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:00 pm

Hi! I've always played a female PC, and most of times, I'm very dissatisfied with the treatment we get. First of all, a lot of RPGs don't let you play a female character. In example, every pirate game I've found.

Second, when they let you play a girl, you're supossed to be a girl who losses her head with any muscled macho-men that comes across.

And third, when you're supossed to be the heroine of a epic adventure, many games treats a female character like someone cute and delicate. Come on! I've just killed two thousand orcs! Stop trying to invite me to dance!

And, because we're in the "speak your mind" section, I must also say that almost all RPGs don't let you choice your sexual preference. I've just finished KOTOR2 and I'm frankly dissapointed: definitely no chances of a lez relation with Mira or the Miraluka. Only in KOTOR1 there was something and, of course, there's a patch for BG1&2 that "open" the romance posibilities (need a patch for KOTOR2 now!).