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But that exactly is what is under discussion here. Academic labeling. Which is why I stated previously that this debate concerning whether or not games are art or not is moot to begin with.

Or, if i misunderstood your last post, you are stating that you can label anything art if it fits an ...

I understand where you are coming from in that in your opinion, the experience itself constitutes art. A blowing leaf can be called "art." But we are necessarily discussing a concrete definition of art here. Art requires human participation in its creation as well as in its consumption. A natural ...

No because this is not abstract by any means. The fact that there is only one manner of interpreting it, as well as the fact that you have placed that manner into exact words, also indicates this is not an abstract communication.

A pile of dog crap is not art because art requires pre-meditated intent to communicate. Now if someone took a picture of that pile of dog crap, or otherwise mediated it into a presentation form, then it *could* be art, although any form of media which is meaningless cannot be art. This is difficult ...

Blah, this "debate" is so utterly moot I can't believe its still even discussed.

What is art? 1) A means of communicating the abstract or what can't be expressed through words. 2) A medium which produces or reproduces within the consumer of that medium an intended (and occasionally unintended) set ...

This is actually unlikely, but its possible that that dialogue option may check for charisma as well as persuasion, persuasion being composed of both scholarship and charisma. If you have the same rank of persuasion, but you have higher charisma on the Toreador or Tremere character as opposed to ...