Assassin build ideas

[Scottg]

Low magic servers offers nearly no magic items

Though not at all a stealth-character,

This build might do very well in such an environment:

http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/never ... 98770.html

[FireFox2000]

I must disagree, on a low magic server you most probably won't be able to change your alignment so that build is impossible..also this topic is about Assassin's >.>

[Scottg]

I must disagree, on a low magic server you most probably won't be able to change your alignment so that build is impossible..also this topic is about Assassin's >.>

For *development* you are almost certainly correct - but as completed, OR past level 15, incorrect.

Yes the thread is about Assassins, but like the last post I responded to (different thread) - try reading the post IN CONTEXT. It was a reply to something that isn't necessarily about Assassins. Also note the OBVIOUS caveat of:

"Though not at all a stealth-character.."

[Valkos]

Yes, Im back with my assassin topic I thought it was better to continue on this topic than starting a new topic.

I am going to play on a future Danish server, http://www.Galtarian.dk, and there is a 3 class restriction with 2core/1prestige or 1core/2prestige classes. Plus items will be +1 and a max of +3 which is very rare.

Again I'm searching for an assassin and I do have some ideas since the introduction of the swashbuckler.

I will throw out some ideas here and hope to get some respons which can lead me in the right direction.

The idea is to have a very good sneaker which can paralyze its enemies and hide from the majority of people.

8swb/9assassin/13rogue: dex-based, ptwf, combat insight.

14swb/7wm/9assassin: dex again but more relying on sword/board combat and using assassin as a trick to surprise.

17rogue/3swb/10assassin: Much sneak orientated killer, but get a bab of 22 which holds up on a low magic server.

17rogue/9assasin/4blackguard: This can be str and dex based. it uses aura of despair to give DA a boost. only major problem is 13 str is a must for PA and cleave.

So these are some of my ideas. Shot out some thoughts!

EDIT: Dmg will be king on a low magic server and crits will happen very frequently. I know there are some melee builds which will outdo sneak atkers atm, but I would like to have the roleplay behind a sneaker and still have loads of dmg from sneak atk.

[Scottg]

I'm playing through right now on SOZ with a full-on (class) Assassin.

I don't mean to be a kill-joy, but even in the "sweet-spot" of lower levels AND with a fairly high intelligence character (native 16) - it still doesn't work well (..Death Attack's paralysis feature).

About the only type of opponents its reasonably reliable with are low fortitude wizards and sorcerers - and most of them at lower and moderate levels don't have the hit-points to live through 2 (consecutive) sneak attacks anyway.

It *is* thrilling when it works - so don't let me dissuade you from enjoying the class, rather just realized that it is overall a poorly implemented class in that its main feature is "dicey" at best.

Common "roll" for my 5 rogue/9 Assassin:

(10 + 9 (levels) + 3 (intelligence bonus) = 22)

Opponent: 13 + 10 = 23 vs. 22 fortitude - save success.

An Intelligence enhancing item can of course improve on this, as can savings throw reductions (spell, feat, etc.) to opponents.

Note that the "etc." ALSO INCLUDES POISON - which is a part of the Assassin's repertoire. Unfortunately it ALSO must make a fortitude savings throw and is likely similar or less high than the Death Attack's paralysis.

..despite the above:

It *is* still fun to play IMO.

BTW, the best race is StrongHeart Halfling throwing darts at about a 15 foot distance (point blank, rapid shot, manyshot (only for the improved rapid shot), and of course improved rapid shot). You get an extra feat at level-up. Extra +1 to hit for size bonus. Extra +1 to hit with thrown weapon. Racial Move Silently +2. Sized bonus +1 to Hide against medium and larger opponents. Size bonus of +1 to AC. Rogue favored class. DEXTERITY bonus. -ALL THIS WITHOUT A LEVEL PENALTY.

[Scottg]

Yes, Im back with my assassin topic I thought it was better to continue on this topic than starting a new topic.

I am going to play on a future Danish server, http://www.Galtarian.dk, and there is a 3 class restriction with 2core/1prestige or 1core/2prestige classes. Plus items will be +1 and a max of +3 which is very rare.

Again I'm searching for an assassin and I do have some ideas since the introduction of the swashbuckler.

I will throw out some ideas here and hope to get some respons which can lead me in the right direction.

The idea is to have a very good sneaker which can paralyze its enemies and hide from the majority of people.

8swb/9assassin/13rogue: dex-based, ptwf, combat insight.

14swb/7wm/9assassin: dex again but more relying on sword/board combat and using assassin as a trick to surprise.

17rogue/3swb/10assassin: Much sneak orientated killer, but get a bab of 22 which holds up on a low magic server.

17rogue/9assasin/4blackguard: This can be str and dex based. it uses aura of despair to give DA a boost. only major problem is 13 str is a must for PA and cleave.

So these are some of my ideas. Shot out some thoughts!

EDIT: Dmg will be king on a low magic server and crits will happen very frequently. I know there are some melee builds which will outdo sneak atkers atm, but I would like to have the roleplay behind a sneaker and still have loads of dmg from sneak atk.

Both criticals and strength damage are counter to a Sneak Attack character. Forget about both. Concentrate on Dextertity which nets you Attack bonuses and AC bonuses. MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE AC BONUS - it also increases your Hide and Move silently skills (and may provide access to certain desirable feats).

If you need some extra Attack bonus then consider 3 levels of NW9 - which still provides 2d6 of Sneak Attack Damage. A BG can augment this as well, BUT it doesn't have the same amount of Sneak Attack for the level expenditure. On the other-hand a BG's 3rd level "Aura of Despair" (within 10 feet) does REDUCE YOUR OPPONENTS SAVES (by 2)! Unfortunatly it also requires several Strength-based feats that are also counter to a Dexterity build.

[Valkos]

BG also compliments a melee build better than NW9 does due to Aura of Despair.

I must say, I had totally forgot about the sneaky halfling which is propably the most relient sneaker/dmger of them all.

8 levels of swb does also help a lot when flanking and I do recall ranged having just that as well, when shooting from the side of ones opponents.

The casual 5rogue/9assassin is a great build. It has so much feel to it that it cannot be ignored.

The only build I've seen ripping a high level fighter apart just like that was a rogue/sd in nwn. I was the fighter hehe, but now that it has a 6 second cooldown I wonder how effective the use of it is now.

Also I still search for a great assassin build, so I urge you to keep thinking Scottg ^^ and to others as well =)

EDIT: Too bad I cannot use the strongheart halfling for this kind of build. The server holds some pretty nasty alignment restrictions which is good for RP, but poor for OP Power gaming hehe

[Claudius]

For a level 30 build 8-12 levels of cleric/favored soul would help you with some AB in spots... Fighter 8 would give more permanent AB...Swash 3 would give intelligence to damage.

Swash 3 Favored Soul 18 Assassin 9

With combat expertise, insightful strike, combat insight

[Scottg]

That extra +4 flanking bonus of the SB is *costly* - 4-5d6 of sneak attack. Not worth it IMO. Or perhaps worth it if you actually need an extremely high attack number just to hit anything (a'la "battle of the builds").

Its funny - but as I go through SOZ my meatshield high BAB with 19 in Strength is (at character level 14) just now equal to the attack number of my Halfling Assassin. For the early levels the little medium BAB Halfling had a higher Attack number!

I think it comes down to this - do you want a Blackguard type (attack of opportunity), or do you want a Rogue type (hide and sneak attack)? The Assassin class can fulfill either type, but with HIPS it is more ideally suited to a Rogue -type. Also - if you go the Blackguard type route then you must consider how best to increase your attacks of opportunity. Certainly Great Cleave, but also consider a dual-wield - the more attacks, the better the chance for a Death Attack's paralysis.:mischief: Again though, the chance for paralysis is only good for the first few hits (with haste), and only if the opponent isn't already in "attack" mode. That's a HUGE limitation in real world play, one that I've run-into a lot. It effectively means that "Death Attack" is almost always Sneak Attack, at best (..with *no* chance for paralysis) - and its virtually always this way for your Blackguard type (attack of opportunity) characters (because they typically have armor on that kills your Hide and Move Silently skills).

IMO the SB is much more of a Weapon Master build - criticals instead of sneak attack (which is more offensive with less inherent defense).

My preference: Rogue-type with at least 10 levels for Crippling Strike and later Epic Precision. On an epic build basis - IF you go the Rogue type route then IMO it is mandatory to grab Epic Precision, other-wise look to attacks of opportunity.

There are of course *other* ideas toward building an "Assassin":

A critcal-type build. SB/WM.

There is the Strength route with Hide-Knockdown-High Damage (via extreme strength or an FB's Enhanced Power Attack with a Improved Power Attack and a 2-handed weapon). My builds: "Hidden Dragon" and "Hitman" first exploited this combination.

Warlock builds with either a purist Eldritch Blast or Tenacious Plague (using Walk Unseen).

*A Ranger racial hitter with 2 epic Called Shots (Dexterity build) and Bane of Enemies.

*A high stealth Trap set-er.

A high Dexterity build with Expose Weakness.

An epic Bard using Song of Requiem.

....

*Note that with SOZ arrows can now be enchanted in pretty much the same capacity as weapons have been, and that "Deadly" traps are viable even against epic characters (except epic reflex characters).

.....

You could of course *combine* some of the suggestions where applicable - even within the context of an Assassin class build.

For instance a high Strength build with Knockdown could still employ a full 10 levels of Assassin. The only thing that would suffer would be your Attack number - and even then it shouldn't be to much.

For instance:

Bard, RDD, NW9, Assassin. Utilizing HIPS with Improved Knockdown and Death Attack. If you get the Death Attack Paralysis - GREAT. If you don't, you'll have Improved Knockdown to use.:mischief: Even with non-critical opponents you will still dish-out a great deal of Strength modifier damage. (..add-in Improved Disarm if possible.) Race: anything with a +2 Strength bonus (..20 to start).

[Scottg]

I just tested it out - the Bard/RDD/Assassin/?

It works, but really only with an Earth Genasi:

The Reaper:

20/10/12/14/6/12 (constantly upping Strength). Use a Spear or Staff for Disarm (until you get a Scythe or Falchion).

Bard for levels 1-5
1. Skills: Concentration 4, Hide 4, Listen 4, Lore 4, MS 4, Perform 4, Tumble 3, carry-over 5.
Feats: Wild Child, Able Learner; Spells: Amplify, Joyful Noise
2. Skills: Concentration 1, Hide 1, Listen 1, Lore 1, MS 1, Perform 1, Spot 2, Tumble 2, carry-over ?
3. Skills: Concentration 1, Hide 1, Listen 1, Lore 1, MS 1, Perform 1, Tumble 1, carry-over ?
Feat: Knockdown; Spell: Sleep
4. Skills: Concentration 1, Hide 1, Listen 1, Lore 1, MS 1, Perform 1, Spot 1, Tumble 1, carry-over ?
Spells: Mirror Image, Silence.
5. Skills: Concentration 1, Hide 1, Listen 1, Lore 1, MS 1, Perform 1, Tumble 1, carry-over ?
Spells: Bladeweave (SOZ), Identify

Assassin for 10 levels:

Skills: drop Concentration & Perform. Concentrate on the others, primarily: Hide,MS, AND Tumble (..Spot should be a *very* close "second"). Consider also pumping up Set Traps, even to the detriment of Listen.

Level 6 Feat: Disarm
Level 9 Feat: Improved Disarm
Level 12 Feat: Improved Knockdown
Level 15 Feat: Whatever you want - AND also take into consideration if you get any bonus feats from your 4th class. My preference is for Martial Weapons here (and NW9 for 5 levels that does NOT have this feat latter). What you select here may also effect the next feat at level 18. Note that up until this point you should have been using a Spear or Staff (..the only simple weapons that are Large - which is important for Disarm). IF you select Martial Weapons here then you can start using a Falchion or a Scythe.

RDD for 10 levels:

Again, concentrate on your "core" skills: Hide, MS, Tumble, (..& to a slightly lesser degree: Spot).

Level 18 Feat: Again, what ever you want. IF you followed with my suggestion of Martial Weapons at level 15 THEN you should select Improved Critical for either Scythe or Falchion. Scythe will give you MUCH bigger criticals, but less often. Falchion will give you much smaller criticals but far more often. In your consideration note that the NW9 class at 5th level has the "ALL Out Assault" feat that works particularly well with the Scythe.:mischief: You could of course though swap-out weapons when using that once-per-day feat.

Level 21 Feat: Great Strength 1
Level 23 Feat: Great Strength 2
Level 25 Feat: Great Strength 3

Final 5 levels:

..are up to you. Again, my preference is for the NW9. It has 2d6 of Sneak Attack, +10 speed (which is important for moving away quickly to Hide if your Death Attack Paralysis didn't work AND your Knockdown Failed), some protection for others, High BAB, and of course All Out Assult - which is pretty much what a real Assassin wants! (i.e. something close to one-shot insta-death.)

Level 27 Feat: Great Strength 4
Level 29 Feat: Great Strength 5

Final "native" Strength = 40!

All-in-all a pretty evil SOB! Note that in addition to the spells, the Bard also has a +1 to attack "Inspiration" that can be toggled on all the time (..or an AC bonus if you would prefer). There are of course multiple feats given by each class that have not been listed.

Valkos:

In your case just keep to the Bard class for your final 5 levels. Don't worry about the starting Charisma either - the RDD class has those extra 2 points for your 4th level spells at 10th level Bard. (..also note that the +1 attack inspiration elevates to +2 at Bard level 8.) Those additional skill points should be welcome too.

[Valkos]

its very viable, until you remember that I can only use 3 classes in total

[Scottg]

its very viable, until you remember that I can only use 3 classes in total

It works as well or perhaps even better with just the 3 classes.

The real critical thing for you would be that your character requires skill enhancing equipment for it to work. Fortunately skill enhanced equipment "stacks", so even a server that is "stringent" should allow you the means to accomplish this. Say perhaps:

Boots of Elvenkind +5 Hide
Cloak of Elvenkind +5 MS
Ring of Hiding +5 Hide

(I had all 3 of these by level 5 in SOZ.)

Top it off with a Ring of Clear Thought at a modest +4 to Intelligence.

That along with some Shadow Legion Armor or Rogue Links (around character level 12+) shouldn't raise any "alarms" on moderately restrictive server.

[Valkos]

The items u mention right there will be considered high magic items on the server I will play on Maybe a few hide items, but not much more will be available after some days of playtime ^^

Right now I'm trying out a 19rogue/3NW9/8assassin with epicdodge, epic presicion. I was thinking SWB was good but tbh the dmg will be removed when I fight crit immune critters and then I thought it would be better to simply take NW9 for more sneak atks and more dmg when I feint on crit immune critters.

[Valkos]

Also I find it hard to use assassin for anything. Even with 16 int, 10 lvls of assassin the DC will be 23. That is not much at all and almost worthless lategame.

Too bad that not all servers have the excellent scripting of Dungeon Eternal X 2 which allows 20 lvls of assassin! I so love that

[Claudius]

What about my FS 18 SW 3 A 9. It will still be hitting with Divine Power activated. Then you might get 28 INT and an item which will raise the DC a bit and allow you to do a lot of damage with insightful strike and combat insight.

[Scottg]

Also I find it hard to use assassin for anything. Even with 16 int, 10 lvls of assassin the DC will be 23. That is not much at all and almost worthless lategame.

Yup, that was my point originally. Compound that with most opponents that will be in active "fight" mode - and Death Attack's paralysis never really comes into play.

If it were me I'd probably go Rogue 26/SD 1/NW9 3.

[Scottg]

What about my FS 18 SW 3 A 9. It will still be hitting with Divine Power activated. Then you might get 28 INT and an item which will raise the DC a bit and allow you to do a lot of damage with insightful strike and combat insight.

How could he get 28 in Intelligence on a such a restricted server?

[Claudius]

well start with 18 (or 20 if you want a 20% xp penalty) then take +7 stat increases to intelligence. And 3 Great Intelligence feats.

you need the cleric component to hit anything if your not pumping an AB stat. You still have HIPs so you don't need as much AB because you are cutting dodge AC and also possibly hitting and running (or flickering combat expertise or whatever).

[Scottg]

well start with 18 (or 20 if you want a 20% xp penalty) then take +7 stat increases to intelligence. And 3 Great Intelligence feats.

you need the cleric component to hit anything if your not pumping an AB stat. You still have HIPs so you don't need as much AB because you are cutting dodge AC and also possibly hitting and running (or flickering combat expertise or whatever).

And then using an item for the Charisma for the FS portion? A Yuan-Ti would work well here (with all its attribute bonuses).

[Claudius]

Probably would work better with fewer FS levels. 14(16) CHA plus whatever item is available on the server. The main spell you need is extended divine power. Add in Blackguard for aura of despair with the free levels I reckon.