Dual Classing confusion

[Eldariel]

I can't seem to wrap my head around how exactly dual classing works. I'm playing a Human Blade right now and intend on dual classing to Fighter on level 16-18 (haven't decided yet; it's the spell slots that interest me), and I'm not sure how the following would work:
-Do I keep my old proficiencies while taking Fighter-levels?
-How exactly does the THAC0 advancement work out? I continue from where I left off? Would the progression continue past level 20 as a Fighter?
-Could I take Bard HLAs once I cross the threshold with Fighter?
-How would the HP work? Would I get higher bonuses from the Blade-levels? What about Fighter-ones? Would I continue progression from the level where I left off as a Bard or start from level 1 again?
-Would Paladin or Ranger be maybe better options? Could I even pick them (ability score prerequisites not withstanding)?

My stats are:
Str 18
Dex 16
Con 17
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 18

I was a bit confused as to whether I can actually benefit of Con higher than 16 while taking Fighter-levels. I suppose Dex should be 18; I'm using the Bracers right now. And no reason to keep Wis above 8 as far as I know. I may pick up a save editor and gut those stats for more optimality now that I finally got my hands on AD&D PHB.


EDIT: I just realized I should've posted this over the ToB-forum. My bad.

[Coot]

Dualing is only possible in combinations that are allowed by multiclassing too. A fighter-> thief is possible but a bard->fighter is not. Sorry.
On the bright side, you can choose a kit for your first class. For instance, you can choose a kensai->thief. A kensai->assassin or a fighter->assassin would not be possible because you can't choose a kit for the class you're dualing into.
On another bright side, although you might be disappointed that you can't dual your blade, blades are among the most versatile and powerful classes in the game. They can kick bottom with the best of them, provided you play them right.

[Thrifalas]

I can't seem to wrap my head around how exactly dual classing works. I'm playing a Human Blade right now and intend on dual classing to Fighter on level 16-18 (haven't decided yet; it's the spell slots that interest me), and I'm not sure how the following would work:

It would not work at all. To dual-class you need a valid multi-class option. Bard does not have a single valid multi-class option, hence a Blade can not dual-class into anything.

-Do I keep my old proficiencies while taking Fighter-levels?

No, but the old proficiencies will be restored once your 1st class gets restored. (When your 2nd class reaches 1 level higher than the 1st)

-How exactly does the THAC0 advancement work out? I continue from where I left off? Would the progression continue past level 20 as a Fighter?

I do not remember to 100%, but I am pretty sure your THAC0 is set to that of a 1st level fighter. Everything else is, so the THAC0 should as well.

-Could I take Bard HLAs once I cross the threshold with Fighter?

No, a dual-classed character do only get HLAs from the 2nd class. Unless you Dual-class very late in the game, such as with a 21thief/24fighter. Then again, all the HLAs you would get from your fighter would only be fighter-HLAs.

-How would the HP work? Would I get higher bonuses from the Blade-levels? What about Fighter-ones? Would I continue progression from the level where I left off as a Bard or start from level 1 again?

Once again I am not 100% sure, but if I recall correctly you get your fist class' HP for the first 10 levels. (6+CON bonus for bards) And then the regular past-10-fix. (3 for fighters).

-Would Paladin or Ranger be maybe better options? Could I even pick them (ability score prerequisites not withstanding)?

Nope. Paladin does not have any valid multi-class options either and Rangers can only dual-class with Clerics.

My stats are:
Str 18
Dex 16
Con 17
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 18

You need 17 in the prime stats of the character you want to dual-class from. So, if all mixes had been valid options you would have been able to dual-class to fighter (18 STR) and ranger (17 CON). But not thief (16 DEX) or cleric (10 WIS). I also think you need 15 in your first class prime stat, but that would have been fine since you have 18 CHA.

I hope I explained it fairly well. If there's still something you're not sure of, let me know.

[Eldariel]

Alright, thanks. I guess I'll be looking at Blade 40 then. Is there any mod that removes the dual class limitations that don't exist in actual AD&D?

[Coot]

Not to my knowledge. However, you could try using a game editor to change your class. It's a cheat though and that would probably ruin the fun. If it was up to me I'd stick with the blade.

[Eldariel]

I suppose. It's just a multiplayer game with a 3-player group so I'll be exp capping early ToB the latest. Which is kinda annoying and would be fixed by dual classing into a slower progression class (such as Fighter; also, the proficiencies and THAC0 would synergize nicely with Blade). But bleh. I guess I'll just look at the problem once it becomes one.

Maybe I'll try editor, but that would probably cause issues with the game so maybe not. I'm not as worried about cheating in this case, since in normal AD&D, I could make a Blade/Fighter no problem; it's simply a limitation in the game engine.


Thanks.

[Berethor]

A Kensai dualled to Mage at level 9/12 would be somewhat equivalent to a Blade with more fighting skill. The Blade's song is useless before ToB, pickpocket doesn't matter, and Lore is irrelevant if you have the Glasses of Identification.

With the Kensai you don't get offensive spin, but you do get Kai which makes all of your attacks do maximum damage, just like O-Spin. You don't get the extra attack per round, but you do get innate thac0 and speed factor bonuses as you level up.

By dualling to a mage, you'll be able to get higher than level 6 spells eventually, which a Blade would not. The only things you'll miss are the Improved Bard Song HLA and the HLA traps (which I try to avoid using, they're too cheesy).

I've never been a fan of dual-classing, so I haven't played this character for more than a few chapters, but it's widely accepted as one of the best characters that you can create.

[galraen]

I guess you could make a Blade->Fighter, if you had high enough stats, seems back to front to me to be honest. You'd have the hit ponts of a Blade, and no Blade abilties until your fighter class surpassed you Bard's level, which woudln't happen until ToB.

Irrelevent anyway as it can't be done, not even with Shadow Keeper, unfortunately. You can only dual class classes that you can have multi-classes in sadly. So no Fighter/Bards or Monk/Mages etc..

Just as an historic side note, the way to become a Bard in 1st edition was seriously weird. You had to start of as a fighter, dual class to thief at 7th Level (IIRC) then when you reached 8th level thief you could become a Bard, very strange. I don't know what wacko came up with that idea, but he/she should have been certified!

PS to explain why I think Blade/Fighter is the wrong way round, as I said to get the benefits of both classes would take C. 4,250,000 XP. Start as a fighter, get up to 13th level and you'd get both classes active for C 2,000,000 XP, you could actually manage that before going to the underdark. If the XP cap is bothering you then you can download mods that remove it, and change the necessary tables here.