Best overall group for SoZ (Mild-Spoiler)

Ripuanewhole · Post by **Ripuanewhole** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:52 am

SoZ is not a very complex campaign, and could easily be completed with a bunch of tanks and 1 or 2 magic users. However, if you are a power gamer like me, you will want to come up with the best party for every situation. The game starts with 4 slots available for your base group, and 1 slot available for a cohort. If you aquire the leadership feet with one of your original 4 team members than you can add a 2nd cohort.

In order to identify the best builds for your original 4 it is very important to know what you have available for cohorts. In my opinion, there are only 3... maybe 4 cohorts worth your time.
1) Septimond (Cleric/Doomguide) is by far the most powerful. Unfortunately you can't get him until you reach the Sword Coast.
2) Umoja (Druid) is a little underpowered, but comes with a Dinasaur Companion that can really help out early on in the game. Plus Druids have some great buffing and offensive spells.
3) Ribsmasher (Monk) has much higher base stats than are possible in a normal build. He packs a great wallup, but unfortunately is lacking in the AC department. He also can't be aquired until you reach the Sword Coast.
4) Lastri (Swashbuckler) is underpowered, but makes a good filler until you can get Septimond. If you choose to keep her, I'd switch her to Swashbuckler(8)/Rogue(16)/Duelist(6).

In order to get the best Teamwork Feats, every Build should include 2 skill points in Survival, 1 in Consentration and 2 in spot.

You can't reach level 30 in SoZ, but if you could here's some builds that would result in the best party:
1) Assimar - Bard(12)/Paladin(3)/RDD(10)/EldritchKnight(5)
This build unfortunately requires a little cheating in order to switch alligments. If you are apposed to that, I'd go with a similar variation such as Bard(12)/Fighter(2)/RDD(10)/EK(6). A powerful Tank, and Respectible Magic User. Important Skills=Diplomacy,Lore,Spellcraft,Perform(6 min)

2) Gray Orc - Monk(20)/Cleric(2)/SF(8)
Once you get the Team Rush feat, all of your charicters will be able to outrun any monster in the game. A powerful Tank, with lower level buffing spells. Important Skills=Tumble,Spellcraft

3) Tiefling - Rogue(16)/Swashbuckler(5)/Monk(4)/Duelist(6) - Starting Stats are Str(10),Con(12),Dex(18),Wis(14),Int(18),Cha(6)
This Kaze style build will be the character you use to navigate the overland Map. Max out Search,Spot,Listen,Survival,Hide,MoveSilently. Other important Skills=Tumble,OpenLock,DisableDevice,and Crafting. A good alternative to this build would be: Yuan-ti - Rogue(10)/Swashbuckler(12)/Ranger(3)/InvisibleBlade(5)... Obviously the last level of Swashbuckler would come at level 30 in order to avoid the experiance penalty.

4) WildElf -Sorcerer(6)/Paladin(4)/ASC(10)/EK(10)
Powerful Magic, Respectable Archer,Strong Saves. Important skills=Spellcraft,Consentration

5) Septimond - Cleric(12)/Doomguide(10)/Warpriest(8)
Important Skills=Spellcraft,Consentration

6) Umoja - Druid(30)
Important Skills=Spellcraft,Consentration,Survival

Enjoy

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:58 am

Easily fix with one or two spell casters isn't quite correct, I'm afraid.
The one spell caster that you won't control in battle will just cast AoE spells on the ground (because that's the most powerfull spells, usually), rather than the enemy. And since most of the encounters you have is people running towards you he/she'll miss the enemies before reaching the high levels and the good target spells.

If you enjoy a lot of micro management however, it's an easy run with several spellcasters.

I would also consider always having a ranger in party (to navigate the overland map) and perhaps a rogue to open locks and disable traps. You can get around that with a mage, but some traps and locks can only be opened by rogues.

Ripuanewhole · Post by **Ripuanewhole** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:15 pm

Fiberfar... I realize it was a long post, but did you even read it? The only valid comment I see is in regards to micromanaging the wizards, and YES of course that's how you do it. The only thing I let the computer do for me automatically is attack nearest, and occasionally I set every one on puppet mode just to make certain they don't do something stupid like walk over a trap, or press the attack too far when it would be better to regroup.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:44 pm

Ripuanewhole wrote:Fiberfar... I realize it was a long post, but did you even read it? The only valid comment I see is in regards to micromanaging the wizards.

The character, the kaze, that you've chosen to navigate the overland map with doesn't have survival as a class skill, does it?

Therefore I suggested a ranger. You'd get hide, move silently, listen, spot, search, survival and other skills you very much can use on the overland map.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:31 pm

Ripuanewhole wrote:Fiberfar... I realize it was a long post, but did you even read it? The only valid comment I see is in regards to micromanaging the wizards, and YES of course that's how you do it. The only thing I let the computer do for me automatically is attack nearest, and occasionally I set every one on puppet mode just to make certain they don't do something stupid like walk over a trap, or press the attack too far when it would be better to regroup.

That's seems a little harsh.. he did preface his concerns.

(..also not that a lot of players don't micro-manage their characters - in fact I suspect that those who do (myself included), are in the minority.)

A few other things to consider:

1. What does "best overall" mean? There are of course any number of group builds that will perform superbly across a large range of encounters, in this respect then we need more information on both what is and is not "best overall".

2. What's the point of posting a level 30 build for a level "20" module? Does the build meet your prerequisites for "best overall" at level 20, level 19, level 18,..level 10,..level 4? If so, how should it be "built" at each level?

3. Are a full grouping of 6 characters necessarily better than 4, or 2, or 1 (..at least when considering module experience point accumulation vs. level differences)? (..note that just one character can accumulate most of the experience points quickly and then add-on in-game characters and level them up to that one character with gold - potentially achieving a very high character level for up to 6 characters.)

4. Disregarding the race level penalty, check the math on your character #3.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:06 pm

Yeah, I'm one of those that don't micromanage. Most I do to control my spellcasters is to make sure I set the behviour tab on the spellcasting mode I want at the time, which I vary according to conditions. I like my chars to act independantly, 'in character', not like extensions of me.

As for best team... it's what works best for your style of play.

I prefer Rogue as the lead char. Pure Rogue, nothing added, but I choose the skills and feats carefully, and make sure to have reasonable STR and CHA without skimping too much on INT and DEX. Prefered race, for me, is Tiefling - partly because of the 3 samll elemental resistances. Make sure to pick up the Leadership Feat so you can have two cohorts.

In addition, I make pure a Mage, a pure Cleric (or Spirit Shaman) and a pure Fighter.

Yup. Conventional. But it works well.

As for Cohorts, it really depends on your gameplay preferences, but I like Septimund and Umoja.

What I'd REALLY like is the Hagspawn Spirit Shaman from MotB. That guy had personality... :mischief:

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:25 pm

I was thinking of running a party with only a low (caster) level RDD FS SF. Casting as a FS 8. As my only divine caster. What is your experience playing this party with not much of a divine caster? I am thinking it won't matter so much because you can just buy healing packs and cancel out status affects by the map.

Ripuanewhole · Post by **Ripuanewhole** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:59 pm

Fiberfar wrote:The character, the kaze, that you've chosen to navigate the overland map with doesn't have survival as a class skill, does it?

Therefore I suggested a ranger. You'd get hide, move silently, listen, spot, search, survival and other skills you very much can use on the overland map.

You're right the Kaze style character doesn't have survival which is why I offered an alternative version that switched out Monk for Ranger. From what I can tell, survival only affects your speed on rough terrain. There are pleanty of skill points available to the Kaze style character to spend on the reduced level of survival points, which would help a little. With team rush you will already be able to out run most monsters... if they ever see you... but if you have a temporary need for additional speed, select Umoja, who should be maxed out on Survival.

Ripuanewhole · Post by **Ripuanewhole** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:14 pm

Scottg wrote:That's seems a little harsh.. he did preface his concerns. (..also not that a lot of players don't micro-manage their characters - in fact I suspect that those who do (myself included), are in the minority.)

Good point... sorry Fiberfar... I have a tendancy to be closed minded at times.

In regards to your other comments. 1) I got a little carried away with the word "Best" but I was intending to create a party that was well rounded enough to take on any challange, and kick a little arse in the process. 2) With level 30 theoretically available, I tend to design my builds as if they were going to level all the way up. If you're interested in seeing the specifics I'd be happy to email them to you. 3) I was unaware of that... I thought the experiance points only applied to the leader, and every one else in the group just recieved the same ammount. 4) Whoops... I messed that up. My actual design was R(16)/Swash(6)/M(2)/DI(6), but since it involved an experiance penalty for the last 3 levels I tried to revise it, and missed the math error.

Fiberfar · Post by **Fiberfar** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:16 pm

Claudius wrote: What is your experience playing this party with not much of a divine caster?

I prefer my cleric casting Resurrection over having some cleric in a far, far away temple do it, in case I forgot to bring along those resurrection stones.
Not to mention someone to remove disease (not that much of a problem with healing kits) and level/ability/stat drain.

Besides, Septimund was bugged when I last completed the campaign, so no matter the level he still wouldn't get spells above level 5. They've fixed that now as far as I know.

Edit: @ Ripuanewhole: It's ok, no offense taken or anything.

I'm actually thinking about doing this campaign with four rangers. All of them melee based. I got some really nasty level 20 builds I want to test.

Ripuanewhole · Post by **Ripuanewhole** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:22 pm

Claudius wrote:I was thinking of running a party with only a low (caster) level RDD FS SF. Casting as a FS 8. As my only divine caster. What is your experience playing this party with not much of a divine caster? I am thinking it won't matter so much because you can just buy healing packs and cancel out status affects by the map.

My opinion is that a Monk is the only class that works with the SF. Otherwise you end up with a week unarmed attack, and a HUGE penalty on all other attacks. Otherwise your argument for ignoring the devine casters is valid. It wouldn't be my choice, but I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't work.