ADVICE: EASY MONEY in ALCHEMY

[sithlord74]

If you want to make easy money, you can do one of two things: Take alchemy as a major skill, or don't. Either way, get yourself the full gamut of alchemical equipment. Pick every flower and mushroom you come across. Spend five minutes between quests and mix potions: good potions, crappy potions, it doesn't matter. I suggest you DO take alchemy as a major skill just because of the absurd amount of money you can make. How you ask? If you've been studious in finding your Nirnroots, and have at least ten of them, you can reach the rank of Master Alchemist in no time flat. See Sinderion in Skingrad (be on the lookout for for Tamika and Surielle Bros. Vintage 399 wines in your travels; Sinderion will want them to train you). When you reach the rank of Master Alchemist, the money will pour in because you can take ANY food item-apples, cheeses, oranges, pumpkins, any random food-and instantly turn them into useless Restore Fatigue potions using ONE ITEM; i.e., one apple=one RF potion. Just keep churning them out and selling them to your favorite high disposition merchant, and the money will roll in like you wouldn't believe. I've made (and spend) around 50,000 gold making and selling potions. Jack your alchemy skill whenever you can and you too rack up the gold.

[Loki[D.d.G]]

I suggest you DO take alchemy as a major skill just because of the absurd amount of money you can make.

Wouldn't alchemy as a major make your character level too fast for his own good? Seeing as you are giving advice on how to heavily utilize alchemy for profit purposes. Not to mention that would naturally cause inadvertent trouble planning the stats progression for your character.

In any case, while alchemy may be a good source of income, the endpoint is kinda moot, case in Oblivion Septims don't count for much. Get a new horse, buy a pretty crib, polish your armor... that's about it.

[Fljotsdale]

Gold is very useful in the early stages of the game, because you don't have as much as you need to get various useful things. Later on, you have so much gold you don't need to bother about it.
I agree that Alchemy is a very useful source of cash, but you should rarely take it as a major skill - only if you are determined to play a Mage using all the mage skills as majors. As I am at the moment. It's tricky!

[fable]

I've mostly played alchemists, and found it almost a cheat when combined with the number of shops/guilds available for it, plus fast travel. At least in Morrowind shops took a while to restock supplies, and you'd have to travel several hops, or walk, to find new suppliers and purchasers. Oblivion simply makes it too easy to make a fortune at alchemy almost from day one.

[dragon wench]

I've mostly played alchemists, and found it almost a cheat when combined with the number of shops/guilds available for it, plus fast travel. At least in Morrowind shops took a while to restock supplies, and you'd have to travel several hops, or walk, to find new suppliers and purchasers. Oblivion simply makes it too easy to make a fortune at alchemy almost from day one.

Very true. Even if you don't use fast travel and you rely on gathering ingredients as opposed to buying them... alchemy is *still* unbalanced. There are just so many ingredients you can simply collect just by wandering through the woods.

Another reason it's less of a game breaker in MW is that you can't reliably make a large batch of potions until you hit around 45 in Alchemy.
Oblivion, by contrast, ensures the player succeeds with *every* potion, even straight out of the starter area...

[galraen]

I think it must be an awful long time since you played vanilla Morrowind Fable, without mods that balance the game, making money out of alchemy is even easier in that game than it is in Oblivion.

The shops in vanilla Morrowind restock their cash supplies every 24 hours, ingredients are restocked instantly. I confess to exploiting the alchemy glitch terribly when I first played Morrowind, walked into Nalcarya of Whitehaven's shop with about 3,000, walked out a multi-millionaire, then started the game again and played it straight.

@ DW, actually it's more like level 20, and to be honest getting to level 45 in alchemy is dead easy anyway. Just make intelligence boosters and you're away, once Tribunal was added then you could boost your skill infinitum as well. Alchemy in Morrowind was the games biggest weakness. One of the few thinks I actually appreciated about Oblivion is that they nerfed alchemy a bit, not enough though.

[Loki[D.d.G]]

Very true. Even if you don't use fast travel and you rely on gathering ingredients as opposed to buying them... alchemy is *still* unbalanced. There are just so many ingredients you can simply collect just by wandering through the woods.

Not to mention the farms outside Skingrad. That place is pure gold for any budding alchemist. And the wait function makes it even easier for anyone to hoard a fortune.

[fable]

I think it must be an awful long time since you played vanilla Morrowind Fable, without mods that balance the game, making money out of alchemy is even easier in that game than it is in Oblivion.

No; I'm just not interested in compare cheese between the two games, and that wasn't what we were doing. We were discussing the way features normally work. There's plenty of cheese in both Morrowind and Oblivion, and why should I care? It's easy enough to amass a fortune without resorting to either. If I'd wanted insta-ingredients, I'd just open the console and give myself 50,000 gold instead of going to the bother of something that takes all the challenge and fun out of my game. Each to their own, but that's my view. Expect my comments then to refer to Morrowind and Oblivion as they're played, not as they're scammed.

If you just use the regular game features, Morrowind's a harder place for an alchemist to start. As DW points out, you can't simply make perfect potions almost at once. You need a lot of levels to succeed regularly: 40-50. And you have to wait several days for merchants to restock ingredients. (No, I've no interest in a list of merchants that Bethsoft created who employ divine powers to obtain insta-ingredients all the time.) Then you have to travel around to find alchemists in shops or guilds, by strider, boat, or walking. Oblivion? Insta-travel to each of the cities: nowhere else to bother with. Boom: fresh ingredients, travel back, start making potions at once. It's like the system already has the scams built into it as features, in Oblivion.

[galraen]

And you have to wait several days for merchants to restock ingredients.

Sorry Fable, that simply isn't true, buy five frost salts from Nalcarya, sell them back, exit menu, open menu, buy ten, sell ten back, exit menu, open mnu buy twenty etc., et. ad infinitum. Cheese? Sure is, but no more so than robbing farmers every three days.

The bottom line is that we choose (after experimenting with glitches in my case) to play the game as it was intended, not just to 'beat it'.

Another point is you can't rack up septims by selling and buying to shopkeepers in Oblivion the way you can in Morrowind. Got a 50,000 value item, with perseverence you can actually get 50,000 (or close to it) in Morrowind, you can't get more than 2,000 in Oblivion.

[fable]

Sorry Fable, that simply isn't true, buy five frost salts from Nalcarya, sell them back, exit menu, open menu, buy ten, sell ten back, exit menu, open mnu buy twenty etc., et. ad infinitum. Cheese? Sure is, but no more so than robbing farmers every three days.

Galraen, please reread my post. I'm not denying that cheese exists in the game, or that with experimentation, you can find merchants who miraculously acquire all the ingredients they just sold as soon as you stop talking to them, and start again--and in the same amount, too! I'm saying that this is cheese, it breaks (for me) the illusion of the game, and we weren't discussing the respective cheesiness for alchemists of Morrowind and Oblivion. We were discussing how alchemy plays out, when one takes into account only the respective features of the two games.

The bottom line is that we choose (after experimenting with glitches in my case) to play the game as it was intended, not just to 'beat it'.

Sorry, but you're not going to get me to believe that the people who did such a fantastic job on building a Morrowind's consistent visual environment, also created several merchants out of a far, far larger number with the "Divine Refill" ability to everything in stock--because it's a feature. It's cheese that got left in, just as cheese gets left in other games. Anybody can take advantage of it, if they so choose. But these aren't features, because they aren't logically consistent with the environment.

For the rest, if you want to discuss cheese, there's plenty of it in Oblivion, and even more than in Morrowind. Feel free to start a new subject about it.

[galraen]

It's cheese that got left in, just as cheese gets left in other games.

That also got 'left in' in Tribunal and Bloodmoon too?

Cheese is cheese, it's just Cheddar vs Mozarella (I love both incidentally), being able to pillage Thing Brothers Vinyard outside Skingrad every three days and flowers blooming at the same rate is pure Philadelphia (love that too). Nalcarya of Whitehaven having limitless stocks of rare ingredients is 100% Gorganzola (hate that).

The thread is about making money out of alchemy in Oblivion, it's dead easy and cheesy. A comparison, and an unfair one in my view, was then made with Morrowind. Making money out of alchemy in Morrowind is just as easy as in Oblivion, in fact easier, you just have to prime the pump first. Once the pump is primed, then there is no limit, 100 skill an that's your lot in Oblivion, in Morrowind infinite skill and infinite intelligence and luck too to add on.

PS the love and hate is re the actual cheese not the virtual cheese.

[fable]

That also got 'left in' in Tribunal and Bloodmoon too?

Just as the cheese in BG2/SoA wasn't touched by the bugfixes and by ToB: yes. Or in the M&M games wasn't ever "fixed" by New World Computing. And so on: it's cheese, not a bug. By definition, it's left in for those who want to find it. But it's not meant to be taken as the way the game normally plays.

The thread is about making money out of alchemy in Oblivion, it's dead easy and cheesy. A comparison, and an unfair one in my view, was then made with Morrowind.

DW and I were discussing that making money via alchemy in Morrowind is a lot easier than doing so in Oblivion. This is literally true. If you take into account cheese, you can argue any way you want, or you can argue that there's no reason to even start with alchemy. Many RPGs have plenty of cheese, and the assumption is that it can be abused to make insane amounts of money, regardless. Consequently, we weren't bothering with that. Again, feel free to discuss cheese all you like--and I sincerely mean that--but kindly don't override our discussion and tell us what and how we should discuss because you believe cheese should be regarded as part of the main content of a game.

Any further discussion of this matter can be taken to PMs. If you insist.

[Fljotsdale]

Do people actually BUY ingredients? :speech: That's no fun.

Besides, when you are out looking for ingredients, you find places you otherwise wouldn't. I do use fast travel - sometimes it is very handy - and originally used it most of the time, 'because it was there', but you miss a lot. I prefer walking/running most places now, and not only for ingredient collection. It's more 'realistic', you never know who or what you will meet or find lurking in among (for example) a bed of Bog Asco!

Buying ingredients!? Not a chance!
I never did in Morrowind, either, so far as I can remember. I must play that game again sometime.

[fable]

Do people actually BUY ingredients? :speech: That's no fun.

I find it less fun in Oblivion, admittedly, and buy it for the most part...because the surroundings are just plain uninteresting. I prefer the look of cities in Oblivion, but getting rid of the various outdoor environments that were part of Morrowind was a mistake, in my opinion. It makes hunting for ingredients dull. Actually, for me, it makes moving from one place to another pretty dull, despite the generic attractiveness of the surroundings.

I never did in Morrowind, either, so far as I can remember. I must play that game again sometime.

In Morrowind, once my characters have sufficiently armed and trained to handle themselves, they walk a great deal. It's good for the circulation, and they get to pick up all those nifty souvenirs.

[Fljotsdale]

Fable, regarding the environments of Morrowind and Oblivion... well, I sorta agree, and sorta don't. Oblivion is prettier, if bland and samey, and if you want variety, well you get a preponderence of some ingredients in some places, and of others in other places! :laugh:

Morrowind environments I found almost universally bleak and depressing, so I prefer Oblivion. BUT Morrowind DID have an interesting variety of bleak and depressing landscapes, and bleak and depressing townships. Though the concrete-block-effect floating towns were the worst of those.

Oblivion provides it's bleak and depressing places through the oblivion gates and the dungeons.

[fable]

Morrowind environments I found almost universally bleak and depressing, so I prefer Oblivion. BUT Morrowind DID have an interesting variety of bleak and depressing landscapes, and bleak and depressing townships.

Heh. Granted, the sandstorms and volcanic areas were the kinds of places only CE and Silur would likely visit, but the various forested regions were far more interesting and prettier, too. Who can forget their first walk from Seyda Neen to Pelagiad? Or continuing up the same road--all the variety of colorful flora (all pickable!) that you could find in very pleasant surroundings? And with nice lakes for a quick dip, too. And what was depressing about the various Telvanni towns and cities? They're a baroque riot of bright invention. Really, I think you spent too much time in some of the interior regions, especially to the north. The coastal plains are worth a travel.

Plus, of course, there are mods. They do improve Morrowind's visuals, and I'll be the last to deny that. Whereas I've yet to find any mods that completely redo regions of Oblivion to put back the variety I miss from Morrowind.

But speaking of alchemy in Morrowind, and making a fortune: I'd again suggest mods. Simply because there isn't much to buy in vanilla Morrowind. (All this applies to Oblivion, too. The ES boards have at least one thread every few weeks from someone complaining that they don't have anything to spend money on in the game. We then suggest mods.) If you're going to have that kind of cash, you need something to do with it.

[galraen]

I find it less fun in Oblivion, admittedly, and buy it for the most part...because the surroundings are just plain uninteresting. I prefer the look of cities in Oblivion, but getting rid of the various outdoor environments that were part of Morrowind was a mistake, in my opinion. It makes hunting for ingredients dull. Actually, for me, it makes moving from one place to another pretty dull, despite the generic attractiveness of the surroundings.

On that we are in complete agreement. I used to enjoy 'The mushroom run' up the bitter coast, so much more atmosphere than you even get in Blackwood, which is probably the only part of Cyrodil with any atmosphere. Of course the mushroom run was only worth doing once, maybe twice t most in any game, the respawn periods in Morrowind being three months(? it was three not one wasn't it?) rather than three days. Then it was over the ridge and start the Trumpet Flower/Kreshweed sweep.

As for the scenery in Oblivion being prettier, not sure I can even agree with that, beauty is in the eye of the Behol..... Message terminated, writer mazed!:laugh: (you may have to be familiar with Cornish colloquialism to get that completely)

[Fljotsdale]

Heh! I don't have to be Cornish to know what Beholders are, anyway - I killed enough of the blighters before they mazed me! Mind you, I got mazed a lot, too!

[galraen]

Mazed in the local jargon = crazy, loopy, a sandwich short of a picnic, which was what I was referring to at the end.

[fable]

On that we are in complete agreement. I used to enjoy 'The mushroom run' up the bitter coast, so much more atmosphere than you even get in Blackwood, which is probably the only part of Cyrodil with any atmosphere. Of course the mushroom run was only worth doing once, maybe twice t most in any game, the respawn periods in Morrowind being three months(? it was three not one wasn't it?) rather than three days. Then it was over the ridge and start the Trumpet Flower/Kreshweed sweep.

One month on mushrooms, and I don't have any mods going that affect this. Yeah, I did the sweeps, too. Don't know if you fanned out at most stages of the guild quests to do that, but I did. Why pay for trauma root, when you can find it by the roadside--and in such scenic surroundings, too? That Balmora mage guild alchemist with all her herbal requirements: just my usual character's kind of quest.

As for the scenery in Oblivion being prettier, not sure I can even agree with that, beauty is in the eye of the Behol..... Message terminated, writer mazed!:laugh: (you may have to be familiar with Cornish colloquialism to get that completely)

Alas, I missed this, too. I can catch a few English colloquialisms, largely from hearing a few favorite radio shows (like Old Harry's Game), plus I'm just one of the strange people who finds idioms interesting. But I don't get a lot of that, I know.

What I do like better is the feeling for size and shape in Oblivion's cities. (And also the way it really opened up the game for thieves, who could have a field day in the IC.) I appreciate the differences in architecture, as well, though I think Bethsoft could have done a lot more of that. In fact, the way Oblivion de-emphasizes terrain differences and makes most dungeons feel alike, in monsters and treasures, makes the game uniquely urban. There's practically no good reason to venture out.