Some Serious Suggestions (Spoilers)

GeeBee · Post by **GeeBee** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:51 pm

I grow weary of the combat sometimes, especially when it consists of fighting beasties: Kinraith, Kath Hounds, Boma lizards, whatever. It gets repetitive. I'd prefer smaller numbers of more challenging, intense battles, rather than a game where three quarters of it is the same thing over and over: go to the next room, kill the bad guys, take their stuff; go to the next room, kill the bad guys, take their stuff; go to the next room, kill the bad guys, take their stuff. It's the Jedi way.

It gets tiresome, and it's unworthy of a RPG with some genuinely fine role-playing going on. KOTOR II had a good story with some great characters, and one or two genuinely moving moments (such as when Mira, about to become a Jedi, confesses that she no longer wants to be alone and afraid, and when the Disciple goes to you after your encounter with the Jedi Masters on Dantooine, to tell you that you are the one worth following, regardless of what the Masters think) and some laugh-out-loud silliness, too (courtesy of the HK droid, such as when you install a Pacifist processor into him.)

I'm a bit older than the average player, I think, and would prefer better puzzles (indeed, puzzles worth of the name "puzzle", of the kind I remember from Myst and 7th Guest) and more plausible ones – nobody's going to encrypt a critical computer system with a simple math problem that a 10 year old could do.

I'd also like non-party member NPCs that behave more like real people (I detonate grenades in a cantina and everybody just goes about their business like normal, I wave my lightsaber in front of a bartender and he just stands there); and for Heaven's sake put some plausible limits on the amount of equipment a person can carry! By the end of Kotor II I was carrying around 15 or 20 suits of armour and about a dozen different melee weapons and maybe 15 or 20 blasters plus several hundred medpacs, stims, grenades, and mines. Wow - those Jedi robes hold a lot of stuff. I mean, why is a Sith trooper dropping a suit of armor or a Jedi robe when he dies anyway? Why are there "chemicals" and "parts" in old vases in millennia-old Sith tombs? Yes, I want the game to have lots of equipment, but make it realistic in terms of how I get it and how much I can carry.

I was disappointed that the big fights with the major Sith Lords in KOTOR II weren't more of a challenge as well. I'd like a long, running battle, perhaps interspersed with cut scenes (like the initial confrontation with Malak in KOTOR I). Apart from Darth Sion and maybe Traya everybody went down pretty fast (especially Atris.)

Don't get me wrong. I really liked Kotor. Darth Sion was genuinely scary, a great character (with a great voice) and Darth Traya was complex and I felt a real sort of affection for Mira and Visas and T3. But those are the things that really satisfied me in the end. So give me more of that – great stories, great characters, and some great light-saber ripping action now and again, too.

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:23 pm

Fighting does get tiresome, but really how much can you expect? Considering KotOR III is most likely going to deal with the "true Sith," though, I expect we'll be in store for some serious fighting. At least I hope so. Kreia did mention that if a Jedi of this era faced one of the ancient Sith Lords (she mentions this on Korriban at the tomb of Tulak Hord, I think, whichever tomb was next to Ajunta Pall's), that Jedi would be like a child with a toy in comparison.

I've never found that Pacifist processor, so I don't know what that's about. And frankly, I was never moved by Mira or anyone else in the game except maybe Kreia. But then I tend to look at a game just like that: it's only a game. So it's not worth my emotional input; that'd be scary if it were, considering how often I go extremely dark.

I remember Myst and 7th Guest... a bunch of those class of puzzles would kill the usual gamers. Programmers have to keep in mind who is going to want to play this game, and most of the time it's not going to be people with a mind for puzzles. But there still should be a number of puzzles, especially some good hard ones, in the game; maybe instead of advancing the main plot, if you solve them, you get some powerful or unique item.

It's been mentioned before about realistic item drops. Sure, sometimes it's useful, but honestly, how many droids are going to need medpacs or stims? As for finding chemicals in vases, you could always attribute that to stuff breaking down over the years. But carrying capacity should definitely be fixed; I usually break down or sell the majority of my stuff if only to make it easier to sift through the stuff I really want to use. Maybe if they installed a carrying capacity limit, and if they put the canisters back on the ship like they had on the Ebon Hawk in KotOR, that'd be cool.

Nihilus was easy because he tried to drain the Force from the exile to feed himself, and encountered the wound you created. Sion and Traya were slightly difficult, but as powerful Sith Lords, they should've been able to resist Force Crush. That alone made the fights that much less fun and challenging. But Nihilus, Sion, and Traya should've been more difficult. I fought Sith Marauders and Masters throughout the game that were tougher than the three Lords.

Hopefully, we'll get a good deal in KotOR III. At least we can hope it'll be finished before released.

Macen Press · Post by **Macen Press** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:07 am

I disagree with the puzzles because if they were a challenge it would just slow the game down and be really boring.

Snakerock · Post by **Snakerock** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:47 am

puzzles weer super easy

force crush was way too poweful, enemy cant even makea move when u use it, sion never even hit me once... ok.. lol

and there need to be some battles in the next 1, the most u ever fight is like 7-8 , if ur 1 good guy fighting against the heart of the sith & the dark side, i think they are gunna make it harder for you

Macen Press · Post by **Macen Press** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:45 am

There should be more movie sequences where u get to watch the fighting being done so u can sit back and enjoy watching it.

tj_92 · Post by **tj_92** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:23 pm

they need to have better battle like lightsaber on light saber fights like in the movies like they automatically do flips n doges and stuff that would be cool but just add more action in the fighting like in the movies and then also maybe improve the graphics on cutscenes so its like (probably not possible on this game) but something like half life 2 graphics and have like some ****scene battles where you see jedi versus sith and its a good battle like in the movies id like to see that

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:35 pm

[QUOTE=tj_92]they need to have better battles like lightsaber on lightsaber fights like in the movies like they automatically do flips n dodges and stuff that would be cool but just add more action in the fighting like in the movies and then also maybe improve the graphics on cutscenes so its like (probably not possible on this game) but something like half life 2 graphics and have like some ****scene battles where you see jedi versus sith and its a good battle like in the movies id like to see that[/QUOTE]

Yeah like when they hit eac others lightsabers, then theres a break, then they hit them again and then the sith just kicks or something.

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:12 pm

Speaking of something serious, I want to see realistic parties. There's no way people'll only head out three to a party, although the need to guard the ship is necessary. But there are just times when it's ridiculous. When you crash on Telos and meet Bao-Dur, Atton isn't just going to vanish. It's more realistic that he'd follow and help you. I understand the need for making it tougher for you by limiting your party members, but that's still less realistic. People aren't going to just vanish like that. The same could be said in KotOR I when you take Carth and Mission into the sewers and rescue Zaalbar; then you have to choose two of those three to take with you into the Vulkar base. And you expect someone to just suddenly make their way alone up to the apartment? Uh uh. They could at least let you temporarily have 4 party members, and throw more and/or harder enemies at you.

tj_92 · Post by **tj_92** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:41 am

[QUOTE=Darth Zenemij]Yeah like when they hit eac others lightsabers, then theres a break, then they hit them again and then the sith just kicks or something.[/QUOTE]

yeah i know it really annoys me lol but it also annoys me how you cant hit a footlocker from 3 foot away with a blaster i mean you have to be a serious i dont know but how is that possible? but they need to just have one continueous lightsaber battle like block dodge while your chosing your next attack and like they do flips to dodge out the way and stuff cause just if i was the like sith or whatever fighting the exile and he stopped like that id take the chance and take him down!

tj_92 · Post by **tj_92** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:44 am

[QUOTE=Chimaera182]Speaking of something serious, I want to see realistic parties. There's no way people'll only head out three to a party, although the need to guard the ship is necessary. But there are just times when it's ridiculous. When you crash on Telos and meet Bao-Dur, Atton isn't just going to vanish. It's more realistic that he'd follow and help you. I understand the need for making it tougher for you by limiting your party members, but that's still less realistic. People aren't going to just vanish like that. The same could be said in KotOR I when you take Carth and Mission into the sewers and rescue Zaalbar; then you have to choose two of those three to take with you into the Vulkar base. And you expect someone to just suddenly make their way alone up to the apartment? Uh uh. They could at least let you temporarily have 4 party members, and throw more and/or harder enemies at you.[/QUOTE]

yes thats annoying aswell like when your in the shadowlands in kotor 1 you meet jolee and like she get him in your party and you then just like send one of your party members back all the way to the ship???? and then the zaalbar thing aswell they should like have a back up party of something so you can switch to another party like when the attack on onderan is happenin you send one group to the tomb of i forgotten but then you go to onderen that would be cool two partys

twice the fun

themystifier · Post by **themystifier** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:50 pm

yeah i agree with the party things. that does get really annoying. and also, i get this a lot, when your fighting someone and you guys just take turns hitting each other and no blocking. i HATE that.

Mote · Post by **Mote** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:27 am

I think the whole 'damage' system has to be reworked.

I shouldn't be able to get shot 5 times with a blaster and still run around with an almost full bar of health- conversely, I shouldnt have to chop a guy/creature 30 times with a lightsaber before he finally dies.

Granted, if you watch *ANY* of the SW movies, blasters are *Notoriously* innacurate- so I can see how someone would miss a locker from 3 feet away... lol. Why not? Stormtroopers could shoot 100 salvos from 30 feet away and never do anything more than put some scorch marks on the wall- and they were trained soldiers.

I think something in the combat needs to be reworked- but not making it take more hits with a lightsaber to make them go down- just getting close enough to them without getting shot to strike at them should be the real challenge.

And lightsaber battles SHOULD be quick... for the most part. A single *Hit* should be about all it takes to end a lightsaber battle. The rest is just parrying and dodgeing

On the other hand, I did see Darth Vader stop a blaster round with the palm of his mechanical hand when Han Solo took a potshot at him... apparently without doing any damage at all to his artificial limb... So maybe you can get shot 5 times if youre a Force user without any real damage being suffered

Though, if you dont use the force, being hit anywhere on your armor is enough to kill you, even if just a grazing shot to the elbow.

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:38 am

@Mote: Let's bear in mind, here, that what we're talking about is fantasy. Imagine how ruinous to the storyline it would have been if Han Solo would have offed Darth Vader so realistically.

You could justify what happened by claiming that Vader used the Force to deflect the shot. Concerning the stormtroopers...

Well, let's be frank, shall we? It just wouldn't do to have the protagonists offed by the faceless minions of the Empire. If a protagonist must go, better that it have dramatic effect...such as Obi-Wan permitting Vader to finish him off on the Death Star. Much more interesting than Obi-Wan being picked off by a faceless stormtrooper, wouldn't you say?

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:29 am

I agree Chanak, Really though I see both of your points.

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:28 pm

I was going to say something similar, but Chanak pretty well nailed it on the head. There's no way in hell the stormtroopers are going to hit Luke or anyone else on the Death Star and kill them, since they're the heroes and have to make it out alive. The stormtroopers may be well-trained killing machines, brutal and efficient, and excellent marksmen, but it is the hallmark of Hollywood to make the enemy bad shots when they have to attack the hero. Only sometimes do they actually hit their target, and then it's only to open up some kind of dramatic scene, i.e. Han crouching over Leia at the Endor bunker and being ambushed by the stormtroopers.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:08 pm

Yeah, come watch the empire stricks back and see Vader killed by an adorable Ewoke! I can only imagine. Back on topic. If they made games like movies though, you wound;t get killed by a kinrath or just some sith.

tj_92 · Post by **tj_92** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:44 am

dear lord i hate the ewoks how could they get kill storm troopers i hate them so god dam much i wonder how george lucas can sleep at night i mean its so satasfying on SW battlefront to just shoot one in the face or something but godd dammit i culd go on for ages about how i would torute and kill those little buggers hmmm shall i go into detail?? i got so many ideas

oh yeah but i back to the beggining and like i said about to lightsaber battles i just play JK: II again and like the saber fights in that are pretty good like they need something like that and alot better people with guns like i siad before but they are so god dammed poor

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:52 pm

I can see where you guys are going with the lightsaber fights, but wouldn't that make it boring? I mean, a one hit kill? Any typical soldiers would be easy to kill. Use the force to block whatever blaster shots, like in the movies and KOTOR II, and then just chop them in half in seconds?

But it would be kind of nice to block shot, wouldn't it?

Its easy to kill the stormtroopers anyways. All it takes is them tossing rocks and smashing tree trunks together... hehehe.

I have to admit the little buggers are annoying though.

vinmi pasu · Post by **vinmi pasu** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:10 pm

This thread is evidence enough that you cant please everyone.
I personally enjoyed both games, each had their merits and each had its bad points.
If the puzzles, the fighting system and the damage system were all made more 'realistic' you would end up with a 'simulation' not a game.
Developers are not going to make a game where the puzzles are all einstein esque, the enemies kill you with a single hit, and you can only wear 1 suit of armor and only carry 1 weapon.
Just so as you know I think the games had a difficulty setting somewhere!

Let me guess even on well 'ard level its too easy! You guys

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:58 pm

I'd just like to point out that the majority of users have mutual ideas about what they want. Although I may disagree with what others have to say, usually I'm just being overly nitpick, like the majority of the people in these forums who disagree. Sure, some people may want to be Twileks or Iridorians, and others may want entirely new races, but we all want to be other races, or at least have the option. In many ways everyone wants something to be different, so its not just that you cant please everyone, its that its impossible to really have every single one of our nuances come out in KOTOR III.