Honest Answers, Everyone

yoyopogo104 · Post by **yoyopogo104** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:52 pm

i dont know...sounds (elias) like KOTOR I and II all over again...but, neways, revan must come back. if s/he doesnt its pretty much ptless to play the game. there'd be nothing to discover. mind as well start a new series! i agree w/ zen-we should not play as revan. sure, his story was awesome and added a twist, but u cant have the same twist twice. we need a knew one. i dont know how, but i know the KOTOR III team (whoever they are...) will make it good. they wouldnt dare put out a game of equal/less quality as KOTOR II...

mrthingyx · Post by **mrthingyx** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:53 am

Bringing Revan back as the main character wouldn't work. A lot of people are probably attached to the character due to it being their first foray into the SW: KOTOR galaxy and as such bear a certain affection for all of the characters - notably Bastila, Revan and perhaps Carth. Therefore it is natural to want to see the fulfilment of their story.

I confess, I would dearly love to find out what happens to Revan, Bastila and Carth, etc. but I also know that bringing Revan back into the game as anything other than a cameo would be very, very difficult both in terms of story and the flow of the game.

However, I do think that any attachment to the characters can be resolved by Lucasarts and whoever does the third instalment by giving us a fantastic character to play third time around: KOTOR II was never going to live up to peoples' expectations purely because it didn't feature Revan and Bastila, but this was compounded by the lack of a 'strong' personality in the game: gamers liked Atton better than their own character.

I would very much like to see Revan and Bastila together (I'm sad like that) as an end to their story, but feel that Revan will have a part to play in any forthcoming sequel... I just hope it isn't as a playable character.

Jedi Thomas · Post by **Jedi Thomas** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:11 pm

Just one question

Who says the exile went off in search of Revan? If he knew he was one of the last jedi than he might try to rebuild the Academy on Dantooine. If so I would want to be a student at the academy or even one of the Jedi Masters. You then get trained or train. The Exile tells you or your master that he/she must leave to face what ever threat Revan went off to find. You go with him and then find this threat, assess it and then either destroy it for LS or help it for DS.

It would be important to note that if anything to do with finding Revan would be last Kotor in my opinion. Most people probally bought Kotor II because of Revan and will probally buy every Kotor till Revan is found.

That is unless Kotor III is to do with finding Revan and Kotor IV is defeating this threat but I could hardly see it.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:24 pm

Well, seeing as how revan is doing that allready, you go out to find him, either way, revan would want your help/ would meet up with you. You might be the only other being fighting what revan is also. And really revan would be a horrible character, you would have revan to its max powers, and it would't really be Revan, it would be some computer generated char, with the name revan, beacuse in k1 it allwoed you to costumize your character, it wouldn't be the revan who you are supposedly familiar with.

mrthingyx · Post by **mrthingyx** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:37 am

[QUOTE=Darth Zenemij]it would be some computer generated char, with the name revan, beacuse in k1 it allwoed you to costumize your character, it wouldn't be the revan who you are supposedly familiar with.

[/QUOTE]

Herein lies the problem. How can Bioware/Obsidian ever bring Revan back without some dumb questions posed to the player early on in the game to get them to determine his/her appearance:

Q: "What did Revan look like?"
A: "I don't know - he/she always wore a full-face mask."
A: "His/her skin was *, and he/she always kept his/her hair * with * in it, etc."

This is the problem the developers have created for themselves: by allowing the player to choose everything about their character they have either given themselves an infinite number of variables to factor into the storyline or they're going to have to disappoint millions of fans by saying "this is what Revan actually looks like." Whilst I'm all for the immersive experience it doesn't half make it hard for the developer in the long run. People are going to complain no matter how good the next KOTOR will be if Revan comes back... "MY Revan didn't look like that... MY Revan was an evil/good Jedi! MY Revan could beat your Revan, blah blah blah."

So in a way, I hope that the possibilities for an open ending are limited to an extent, that the developer effectively constrains the player in terms of deciding the fate and doom of the previous characters. Yes, fans of the series will complain but it will make for a less cumbersome experience in the long run.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:14 am

Yeah, thats what I mean. Unless these people just want a random character with the name of revan.... Then it wouldn't even be smart, they'll just get some random character with Revan as the name.

Rattler3 · Post by **Rattler3** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:37 pm

As much as i would love to be able to continue playing revan, i know that its not viable...
The entire KOTOR story was enthralling... although my friend, (I hate him now) spoiled the revan twist for me, the entire game was awesome. THe character interactions were well done, and it was just generally cool to be revan.
People want to play Revan because they want to continue there story. I played LS, and i wanna see the romance of revan/bastilla to continue.

However, i understand that having him playable would be retarded from the gameplay sense. What they could do would be increase the level cap, allow you to create revan, bring in a bunch of new abilities... basically u have a lvl 20 revan thats actually weak, cause its lvl 100 max cap...

Remember, (Im assuming the story is that u go out and kill the true sith) you ARE out there fighting the true extremely powerful sith... revan though pwrful in the republic is weak out there... thats just an example.

However, the 2 games i actually dont enjoy the fighting... im after the story, the story is what i crave... so what i want is closure on the story. I think thats what everyone wants, and thats why they want revan back. And like before, they want to be able to control his actions.
So they should make him non-playable. However, there should be a way where you can control his actions... sorta like what you have on the ebon hawk. You can control revan or this other new character. You dont fight as revan, but you get the interaction (best part of the game to me).
Anywho, i think revan and the exile should re-appear, and maybe even be playable just for a small part...
the issue with that is how he looks. What they could do is have it look back at the first game, and you'd have to pick a saved game and thats how he/she would look. Same with exile. If you haven't played one or the other it randomizes there look/sex...
i know its possible on the xbox to look at older games of the same series, same with PC, so it should work, right?
*shrug*
to give u an answer u hate, revan was just a generally cool character to me.

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:37 am

If Revan were to be in KotOR III, s/he'd probably wear a mask to keep us from having to decide on his/her looks and gender. Also, when Revan spoke, there might be a voice scrambler in the mask itself so that you can't tell from the voice whether Revan's a guy or gal. Anyway, I say Revan's going to be dead; it's the easiest solution to that problem.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:02 am

Agreed Chim. Revan should be dead. I've been thinking about it and you should findhim remains somewherer.

Greg. · Post by **Greg.** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:59 pm

You could fly to the outer rim at one point to find him in a force-amplifying cave, attempting to hold back the true sith attack. He could point you towards the rakatan homeworld, and you could speak with the elders/'the one' and search the temple/other ruins for clues as to the identity and position/motives of the true sith.

I like the idea of Dustil Onasi coming back, perhaps he could bring T3 with him. HK-47 could join late on, and lead you to revan. The exile could be with revan or have a similar role to revan somewhere (leading the jedi). Other than them, I cannot see many other characters returning as playable (although it would be quite good if some non-party members could join the party, or just be in the game - Griff Vao for example).

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:10 pm

What if you killed the One, I did it a few times... I think you have the wrong thread.

mrthingyx · Post by **mrthingyx** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:47 am

[QUOTE=Darth Zenemij]Agreed Chim. Revan should be dead. I've been thinking about it and you should findhim remains somewherer.[/QUOTE]

Going on general Star Wars trivia/lore, killing Revan would either do irreparable damage to Bastila (assuming, as the canonical ending to KOTOR i suggests she's still alive and had been redeemed), kill her as well or at least be significant enough in the telepathic sense as to let her know something funky was afoot. But then, that could be a premise for the third installment... Bastila has suffered one of the above and you set off to find out what's happened... Also, killing a 'wound in the Force' wouldn't be a clever thing, going by Kreia's inferences.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:19 am

Revan could have died from something natrual or something, (s)he could have died of old age, or something like that. And forget bastila, she should have been dead allready also.

Chimaera182 · Post by **Chimaera182** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:25 pm

[QUOTE=mrthingyx]Going on general Star Wars trivia/lore, killing Revan would either do irreparable damage to Bastila (assuming, as the canonical ending to KOTOR i suggests she's still alive and had been redeemed), kill her as well or at least be significant enough in the telepathic sense as to let her know something funky was afoot. But then, that could be a premise for the third installment... Bastila has suffered one of the above and you set off to find out what's happened... Also, killing a 'wound in the Force' wouldn't be a clever thing, going by Kreia's inferences.[/QUOTE]
Maybe not. Kreia said that betraying someone could sever a Force bond, as it is implied happened to Kreia/Exile. Also, their minds are shielded during combat, so they wouldn't feel the pain the other endured. If that's the case, when Bastila fell to the dark side and became Malak's apprentice, she betrayed Revan and attacked him, and the bond could be severed. Also, if the bond is severed, Bastila might not even notice if Revan were standing next to her. And even if the bond wasn't severed, the bond wasn't anywhere near as strong as it was between the Exile and Kreia, so it might not harm Bastila if Revan died.

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:23 pm

[QUOTE=Chimaera182]Maybe not. Kreia said that betraying someone could sever a Force bond, as it is implied happened to Kreia/Exile. Also, their minds are shielded during combat, so they wouldn't feel the pain the other endured. If that's the case, when Bastila fell to the dark side and became Malak's apprentice, she betrayed Revan and attacked him, and the bond could be severed. Also, if the bond is severed, Bastila might not even notice if Revan were standing next to her. And even if the bond wasn't severed, the bond wasn't anywhere near as strong as it was between the Exile and Kreia, so it might not harm Bastila if Revan died.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, you beat me to it Chmaera.

mrthingyx · Post by **mrthingyx** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:42 am

Sure thing - it's one of many possibilites, however. Yes, Bastila fell to the dark side to become Malak's coffee-girl but in KOTOR II she still speaks of the bond being present despite that. And I'll definately agree that the bond is nowhere near as strong as Kreia/Exile, as surely Revan would have noticed when Malak was "whetting Bastila's appetite," so to speak.

However, there are some interesting parts to this which I found out again after playing TSL for the fourth/fifth time...

T3 went with Revan to the borders of known space to look for the terrible threat that was lying in wait, hidden from the Republic. Bastila asked T3 - in the case of Revan being killed or not being found - to return to known space and find any remaining Force users to help him. That's where Kreia (at first) and then the Exile come in. So I guess one can infer that Revan has completely vanished or been killed... and it's up to somebody in the third game (with a bit of luck) to find him.[/COLOU]

I think part of the desire for Revan to return in the third game is disbelief that he can be killed (yes, I know I'm using 'him,' but that's what Lucasarts say...), seeing as he pretty much single-handedly polished the floor of the Star Forge with Malak's badly tatooed head. As such, the prospect of him being killed is hard to grasp.

However, both possibilities are equally likely - it's just a case of preference.

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:02 pm

Overall it seems like it would seem that people agree that Revan is NOT the best person to play as. Not only would the game be overly repetitive, it would almost be equally impossible NOT to have him in the game. revan was the leading cause in the first one and he was a topic of interest in the second one. It makes sence that a charcter as dynamic ass/he would have to come back, or at least some important information on what he was doing. But that would leave this open ended. What the ending of KOTOR II was based around was what would happen to your charatcers and what Revan had done, which is go off to the unknown areas to find the true sith threat, even if it is such a belief. You already know it is a place that corrupts any who walk on its surface, and that the Trayus academy was one of them,m as hinted by Kreia. They either have to find a whole new threat or either become repetitive, which would be unpopular, or they could continue the journey.

Revan is an instrumental part of this series. however, playing him would also be impossible. The portraits for the game were varied and widespread, which many different class types and variables for how he would appear, and act, and what abilities he would have, not to mention that the charatcer may be amle or female. Playing him would be nearly impossible, and evcen if you could, he woukld not be the same charatcer as you would remeber. He got his memory back, slowly but surely. He now remembers everything. If you were LS when you played KOTOR, then he may be darkside from the corruption of his quest.

The best way for this game to work, in my opinion, whihc im not sure many others agree with, would be to have him as an NPC you would never meet, but talk through an aprentice of his, or maybe a droid, as GOTO, although perhaps a little more helpful and less annoying, such as T3 or Hk-47. None of us really know what else happened to T3, considering he knew more then he let out in KOTOR 2, and we already know that HK has a variey of programs that revolve around Revan.

Revan is a required charatcer, not because people want him, but because what many storylines and conversations revolved around was Revan.

The game was also made in a way that it was kind of like generations of charatcers. You have the experienced warriors, such as bastila, carth, hk, canderous and many other who are all related in many ways, from where they lived, like on Taris with Juhani and Mission, to relationships and aquaintences, showed up in the first one with strong ties in the end, as well as some in the beginning. They joined together and finished a quest.

then you have the second group, more like those who are following in the footsteps. The exile finding the aweful truth behind his powers, and you were a general second to Revan. You have a guy who fought on the side of the sith in the war, instead of the republic, like carth. You idolized Revan, no matter what path you took, as did many of your party members. albeit there were many differences, you can find similarities in what many of the charatcers act and what they have done, and who they are, and some of them even come back, like mandalore, but stronger.

It makes sense that the next group will have to also be like this, but even more different then the first. The game relies on this, with the current hero idolizing the past, or commemorating war, or even following closly with past wars. (did that make sense?). Even in the first KOTOR, your cgaratcer was constatly bombarded with knowledge of the mandalorian wars and the war with Exar Kun. What made the first game so dynamic was that you knew nothing. what made the next game not as strong as the first one is that you already knew so much that many conversations were pointless. What we need is new charatcers with ties to the past, but not so strong that it revolves around many of them, save Revan, which is needed.

Conclusion: Revan is a NPC powerful jedi that you never (maybe rarely with a mask and voice modification, as mentioned above) meet in person, but speak to through other people, whether it be Carth or an apprentice, or a droid. you should be the next generation or roup of people who try to followin the footsteps of those before you, but in a different way, and few of your charcters, or for the best results, none are playable charatcers in the past, but maybe related( again, Dustil, as im mentioned on the first page and others have mentioned as well).

And we do know somewhat of what happened to Carth, Bastila and Revan, as was mentioned in the cutscene when you speak to Admiral Onasi. We know they want to find Revan, but as Canderous they were ordered to stay behind. (Remeber, Kreia trying to convice madalore that Revan betryed him or something on Dxun?)

Darth Zenemij · Post by **Darth Zenemij** » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:54 pm

I couldn't have said it better myself! And yes I remember Kriea with mandalore. I absolutly agree with everything you posted, I really couldn't have said it better myself.

andvagor · Post by **andvagor** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:47 am

err... ok... i never played the first game... but isnt your conclusion EXACTLY what happened in the second one? i personally came to a different conclusion, which i am very surprised to find no one else notice, i would personally have revan in the game as a party member, we can get revan to answear all of the questions quick, and easy, the storyline can continue with the "real" sith threat, revan is still in the game, and so many people are happy, but we can always simply ignore him/her if we dont like him/her, as i did with g0t0 in kotor 2, so thats kept a large majority happy as well, reven is key to the story line, and many people want to see him, but many people dont, i would just have it like this so it would be like a side quest. i would bring back the droids because they are always happy and funny to have around, hk74's oppressive/depressive/pessimistic black humour demanour always amused me. t4 would keep in the series and be the usual coffee machine on wheels... hmm... that would be a nice addition to the game. we can bring back bastilla and handmaiden and have them both to keep everyone happy. bring back atton and carth to keep people happy, they would probably make good friends. bring along bao-dur as an npc, that would be nice. and this has probably solved several things already. keep the exile as the main character but forget all of that useless mind wipe story line and continue on with the destruction of the super sith evil mastermind genieouses of doom stuff. then we can simply keep everything nice and dandy

mrthingyx · Post by **mrthingyx** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:40 am

Playing either the Exile or Revan as the PC is impossible from a programmer's point of view, though - it makes the game very difficult to get into for first timers (yes, I know the majority will have played the first and second, but I started with the secon... so naturally, there will be people who start with the third) and very boring for veterans. Why? Because the PC is already too powerful - there is no learning curve and no appreciation of the hard work that must be put in to progression.

Hill put it perfectly: Revan and the Exile MUSt feature in the third game on some level purely because of their pivotal roles in this part of the Star Wars saga... any Jedi who comes to prominence in the third will be taught of the Exile who gave up the Force and returned to it (Handmaiden), of Revan who turned from the dark side (albeit when forced to) to be redeemed by saving the galaxy, etc. They will be NPCs at best but - as already stated - due to the blessing and curse that is character customisation, will probably not feature as playable individuals. Unless Obsidian/Bioware bite the bullet and stick decide to stick with the canonical endings to the respective stories or are very, very, very clever in their scripting.