Question about party

[doady]

It's a bit more complex than that, if I recall correctly, since you're just looking at damage. Nerfed ***** gets you 1/2 attack and +2 ThacO, and +5 damage.

It's actually +1/2 attack, +2 THAC0, +4 damage, and -3 speed factor.

Instead of +3/2 attack, +3 THAC0, and +5 damage.

My comparison in bonus damage per round did take into account the number of attacks.

But still, I never said the nerfed grandmastery gives nothing. I said in comparison to specialization the difference is neglible, despite the amount of points you have to spend. Yes grandmastery has the extra half attack, but that half attack was given by specialization, not grandmastery. So it doesn't give Korgan much advantage over Keldorn.

And yes, I am quite aware of the grandmastery patch and I am using it also. My point was about the unmodded game though.

[doady]

Note also while Blades can only get * in weapons HD has ** in Short Swords, but can't get ** in any other type of weapon (IIRC, according to the DanSimpson walkthrough he has ** in longswords if he's at level 15 when you pick him up?).

How to pick up high level characters though? In my current game, new NPCs are always relatively low level, even now when I have close to 3 million EXP. It makes it hard to justify replacing party members and experimenting. In BG1 NPC level are determined by your PC's level, but that is not true in BG2.

[fable]

How to pick up high level characters though? In my current game, new NPCs are always relatively low level, even now when I have close to 3 million EXP. It makes it hard to justify replacing party members and experimenting. In BG1 NPC level are determined by your PC's level, but that is not true in BG2.

Looks like you haven't checked out the Gibberlings Three's BG2 Tweak Pack, that I mentioned above to you--because, to quote from their readme about one option:

ToB-Style NPCs
This component will alter all joinable NPCs to join in the same fashion as Throne of Bhaal, where NPCs immediately level-up upon joining, with a caveat: all creature files are moved down to their lowest experience version, so if you pick up an NPC early enough they will not level upon joining. However, later in the game they will, allowing you to select weapon proficiencies, thieving points, and other goodies from the level-up process.

So if you're three levels above a joinable NPC, they'll join you and you'll be able to bring them up to roughly your own level. Works great.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Just OOC, has anyone actually picked up Haerry at a high level, and does he get the specialization in longswords too?
The highest I remember getting last time through was level 12 or so and my PC was in the 30s (never actually finished the game with him before and just started over... ), but my memory ain't the greatest.

Also, to jouke, the 2-handed-sword halfling schtick has got me curious - what's you planned party setup weapons/armor wise?

[galraen]

I've just had a look at all the .cre files for Haer'Dalis with Shadow Keeper, and all have them had 2 stars (specialisation) in short swords, none had any proficiencies in longsword. So the person who remembers picking him up with specialisation in long swords must have been running a mod that changed that.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Weirdness

Welp, I just reloaded my last saved game in ToB, summoned him in (he was at level 10 with a heap of level-ups rearing to go) and yep, ** in both short and long swords. Tried giving him ** in katanas manually and no deal - evidently being around the PC really cramps his style.

As a practical matter this would suggest picking him up later rather than sooner is a good idea, and/or booting him from the party just before starting ToB. Or just using Shadowkeeper.
Still, it sort of sucks IMO, they should have either kept his class restrictions if you pick him up later (shortswords I can understand since his personal weapons are both shortswords) or allowed him to get ** in longswords automatically - as it stands they're effectively rewarding players who pick him up later in the game (i.e. those more likely to use him less or just take him for a while) over those who have him as a key party member from the get-go. I can see how it probably isn't possible to get around the hard-coded class restrictions with a single party-joinable NPC in-game (i.e. Minsc not getting additional berserker rages as he levels up, Mazzy not getting more Lay on Hands-style abilities), but at his lowest starting level he still has * in both daggers and darts - surely those could have been reassigned into longswords? It's not like he can use darts or throwing daggers while dual-wielding anyway.

[jouke1988]

Just OOC, has anyone actually picked up Haerry at a high level, and does he get the specialization in longswords too?
The highest I remember getting last time through was level 12 or so and my PC was in the 30s (never actually finished the game with him before and just started over... ), but my memory ain't the greatest.

Also, to jouke, the 2-handed-sword halfling schtick has got me curious - what's you planned party setup weapons/armor wise?

This is what i am planning to do:

Me(the half-orc fighter-cleric) with Flail of the ages. red dragon scale armor
Haer'dalis with two short swords Chaos blade and Entropy(want to get him a elven chain mail as soon as possible)
Aerie with sling + 3 arla's dragonbane and club+2 gnasher and robe of vecna
Jan Janssen with is own flasher and a cleric's staff(maybe staff of magi) and his own armor
Valygar with Elven Court bow +3 and spear of the unicorn and his own armor
Mazzy Fentan with short bow of arvoreen, short sword of the arvoreen and Ilbratha +1 (in close combat dual wielding 2 short swords, maybe even long swords) full plate mail +1

Has anyone got a better idea?

[galraen]

@ Ode to a Grasshopper

What mods are you running?

[kmonster]

For dualwielding you should get Kundane (you'll find it in the Haer Dalis quest), this short sword grants an extra attack per round to the main hand even if wielded in the off hand.
You could also wield Belm in the off hand, because of the extra main hand attack per round you'll do more damage even without scimitar proficiency.

Giving a weapons you can backstab with to Jan and Valgyar grants a powerful combat option.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

In install order I've got SoA (patched), ToB (patched), Gibberlings 3 fixpack, Xan NPC mod, Saerileth, Dungeon-B-Gone, and the G3 Tweakpack (including unnerfed Grandmastery, weapons styles for all, and grandmastery for dual/multi-fighter types, but that shouldn't effect Haer'Dalis). The reason I checked it out in the first place was due to looking up Dan Simpson's FAQ on GameFAQs which claimed HD got ** in Longswords if the PC got him at level 15+ - I don't remember seeing this before but then I haven't really used Haer'Dalis much so I never really paid attention.

My long-winded recommendations.
Half-Orc PC
Half-orc PC dual-wielding Flail of Ages and Defender of Easthaven in the offhand (20% Blunt/Slashing/Piercing damage) - still takes advantage of your flail specialization, gives you an offhand attack per round, and 1/5 melee damage resistance which stacks with Armor of Faith and Hardiness. Alternately the Shield of the Order has some nice saving throw bonuses and the Shield of Harmony gives immunity from charm/confusion/domination/hold person. Mauler's Arm will set your strength to 18/75, but as a half-orc strength shouldn't be a problem anyway. Mace of Disruption+2 is nice for the level drain immunity and death upon hit factor, but at higher levels Turn Undead is even easier.
Haer'Dalis
Give Haer'Dalis either Kundane or Belm+2, or alternately the monk-only Scarlet Ninja-To if you have Use Any Item (extra attack per round), Equalizer (immunity from charm/confusion) or Adjatha the Drinker (immunity from charm/domination) in the offhand. You can get Adjatha, Kundane, and the second-best elven chain in SoA right after you return Haer'Dalis to his troupe. Since Blades have a Lore penalty it helps to equip the Sword of Balduran (10% lore bonus) when trying to ID items, or have it as a usual offhand for the 10% magic resistance, as before use Blade of Roses etc when getting quest rewards. Dakkon's Zerth Blade (from the bonus merchants) is good for the +1 AC bonus and the bonus spell slots (+1 mage spell for levels 1-4). Both Chaos Blade and Entropy are more actual hitting weapons - why one of them didn't give an AC bonus or bonus spells or something instead of on-hit abilities is beyond me. Maybe I should kill Drizzt and take Twinkle out of spite and literary merit.
Aerie
If you're going with Aerie using 1-handed weapons (again Defender of Easthaven is a nice choice for that damage reduction, she doesn't have a lot of hit points though she shouldn't be doing melee anyway) give her one of the shields too - she can use the AC and immunities are always nice. I usually have her using staves but that's more about image than anything - in this case the Staff of the Magi is better left to Jan for undetected trap- and illusion-detecting. Also shields don't interfere with her using slings - if she can't equip a particular shield due to insufficient strength just have her boost her strength, equip it, and provided you don't take the shield off she'll be able to keep it equipped until she dies or levels up (then just boost her strength again and repeat).
Jan
Staff of the Magi for the equipped Invisibility, charged-up Staff of Striking for backstabbing (sell it and shoplift it back to recharge it free of cost). Give Jan the Light Crossbow of Speed - +1 attack per round and way less weight, which matters quite a bit for a thief with low strength and therefore low carrying capacity. Keep those Kuo-toa bolts too, I always used to sell them but recently realized that at 2d6 damage (plus a stunning effect much like the Bruiser mates) they can do as much damage as a 2-handed sword +2.
On the armor front it's worth noting you can get nonmagical elven chain from a noble in Trademeet if you side with his rival in retrieving a certain artifact (or just go into his house and kill him afterwards), kill Aran Linvail for Elven Chain +1 (not recommended as it tends to tick off the Shadow Thieves), or just stick with wizard robes (character-wise the best legitimate robe in SoA is probably the Knaves robe for that thiefy goodness, or just cheat in a Robe of Neutral Archmagi - it sucks that you can get Evil and Good Archmagi robes in SoA but have to wait until mid-ToB for a Neutral one IMO, neutrals get so stiffed in this game). If you have the Xan NPC mod you can also get it from the blacksmith in Trademeet, but you'll need Xan with you and it's pretty expensive. I'd go with the wizard robes just to avoid the thief ability penalties and cut down on weight.
Valygar
Corthala family armor is about as good as you'll get for Valygar, though if you're using his backstab a lot the Night's Gift+5 has a 20% bonus to Hide in Shadows which goes down nicely. If you're using his personal armor you might want a different spear as both his armor and the Spear of the Unicorn give charm protection - the Impaler's +10 damage bonus is probably a better option. I can never resist giving him Celestial Fury and an offhand weapon myself, but there are some sweet spears and I never seem to use them. Don't forget you can't backstab with weapons that thieves can't use, so if you do want to use his backstab staves, longswords or katanas are good proficiency investments. I also suggest you give him at least * in staves if only for easy elemental killing with the Staff of Fire/Air/Earth.
Mana Bow+4 for the 20% magic damage resistance (that plus his armor = 45%, add on Armor of Faith and you can easily reduce damage from spells by over half), or a magical composite bow for the Strength bonus to damage.
Mazzy
Have someone with decent wisdom (natural or with potions) cast Limited Wish and make the right one-time only wish and you can get Mazzy Full Plate +2, or just use some of the other sweet plates like Gorgon Plate or Plate of Balduran. For Mazzy I prefer full plate +2 for the knight-in-shining-armor look, but then I usually deck her out with a medium shield for the same reason. The Tuigan Bow+1 will give you 3 attacks per round at a +1 bonus for archery purposes, which is way more useful than the 2 attacks per rounnd at a +2 bonus from her personal bow. Sword-wise Ilbratha and Arbane's sword are worth having equipped for their special abilities but so-so for actual use, so keep them for buffing before difficult fights. I'd consider Daystar for her main weapon, it's as close to a paladin sword as non-paladins can use, can cast Sunray, has a +4 attack/damage bonus versus evil opponents, and does double damage versus undead. Great versus undead (including shadows), nice glowing visual effect, has that 'sword-of-righteousness' vibe - the biggest trouble is you have to go through a lich to get it...

[jouke1988]

What do you think about the weapon i am using? flail of the ages, is there anything better then that for a fighter/cleric?

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

It's really more a case of using the right tool for the job. Eg. the Dragonslayer longsword isn't anything special against most foes, but when fighting dragons it deals double damage. I'm a packrat and keep every unique named item I get my hands on, so it works fine by me (e.g. holding onto the druid-only Staff of the Woodlands turned out to be a great move when Jan got Use Any Item and started summoning Shambling Mounds).

As a a general rule the FoA is about the best cleric weapon out there, it has decent (though not the best) damage, you can get it early on, it can be upgraded to a +4/+5 weapon with the extra heads in ToB/Watcher's keep, can kill trolls and interrupt Stoneskinned mages thanks to the elemental damage (though Crom Faeyr is an even better troll-killer), and the 33% chance of Slow with no saving throw is really useful.
Just switch to the Mace of Disruption and later on the Runehammer for undead battles (having someone using the Azuredge throwing axe is nice too), keep the Staff of Air/Fire/Earth for elemental slaying, the Rod of Smiting for golems (wish I'd thought to pull this baby out the last time I was in Suldanesselar ), and you're set.
FoA probably won't work on demiliches is all, but there's like 2 in the whole game, they're both pretty major battles, and the Mace of Disruption still hits 'em fine and has the save-or-be-destroyed at -4 ability to boot. Have Aerie set up a spell sequencer with Greater Malison and 2 Dooms, use Greater Whirlwind and it's bye-bye Kangaxx...

While I'm typing away, I forgot about another Charisma boosting item (Axe of Hrothgar, +1 Wisdom, +1 CHA), meaning any character with Use Any Item (or just any fighter-type) can get the maximum 25 CHA just with the right item setup.