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What Do You Wish You'd Known On Your First BG1&2 Playthrough? (and it was your last)

This forum is to be used for all discussions pertaining to BioWare's Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast expansion pack.
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NuMystic
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What Do You Wish You'd Known On Your First BG1&2 Playthrough? (and it was your last)

Post by NuMystic »

Advice For A Gamer's First (and ONLY) BG1&2 Experience? (what you wish you'd known)

If your first play through had also been your last, what things do you wish you'd known which would have significantly increased your enjoyment of the game?

No matter how spectacular a game is, due to time restraints and my being mostly story focused in my RPG interests, I will only ever play through BG1 & BG2 once. (including official expansions)

I am much more likely to move on to a game I haven't experienced, than replay even my very favorites, and I have been out of gaming so long that there are tons of well regarded titles I haven't played yet. (Planescape Torment and the Fallout 1&2 to name just a few)

So, I was hoping to tap the collective wisdom of the BG veterans in what you would recommend as far as mods (BG1 and 2) which were quite simply not to be missed for whatever reason... be it for content, mechanics fixes, gameplay, etc. specifically for a first-time, and more importantly, single-time player.

I started doing deep research, but found that there was just no way to figure out enough of this on my own without also reading a ton of spoilers at the same time, which I would mostly like to avoid.

Feel free though to include spoilers which will help me avoid the kind of anguish that is only cured by replaying the entire game with 20/20 hindsight. A few examples of what that means to me:

- NPCs that will absolutely not work together
- A fantastic side quest or item not likely to be found by any completely new player
- Skill/spell choices that look fantastic, or at least sensible through new eyes but are far from ideal in real gameplay.
- A stat minimum that will cause major problems in certain scenarios if it's not met
- Basically, anything you wish a veteran had shared with you before your first run through, if you knew that it was also going to be your last.

Some additional info to help with your recommendations...

- I'll be doing a Mac EasyTutu install, and I know the basic drill as far as read me texts, the mod compatibility thread, and SHS, PPG, and G3 forums.

- I am most of all, only interested in mods which fit as seamlessly as possible with the original game itself. I am looking for the deepest immersion possible rather than simple novelty and the kind of new twists that are mainly to keep things interesting upon repeated play-through.

- Since I am WAY out of my depth with the game mechanics, skill trees, and combat system, I actually don't have a problem with mods or NPC's that are a bit overpowered. While I don't want a game that is challenge free altogether, I also don't have any interest in reloading 30 times to get past a low level encounter. That's enough to make me rage-quit a game forever. Endlessly saving/reloading breaks my sense of immersion, and if it's done enough can eventually feel like far more of a cheat than an overt stat tweak or power item.

- I have absolutely no problem with "cheats" that remedy tedious or mind-numbingly repetitive tasks. (especially those that can always be achieved eventually, and just require lots of button mashing, resting/re-attempting to be accomplished)

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read all of this. I look forward to any wisdom or insights you can share. :)
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Post by mrdeluxe »

1. In BG2 Let Yoshimo join your party and keep him. He's a good NPC and very important to the story.

2. Patch your games!

3. Again in BG2 keep Jaheira and Minsc in your party. They're a must for a first-time play-through.

4. Keep as many party members as you can in your party, but try and rotate at least one NPC in BG2, according to the quests you get them.

5. Don't play as a Monk. They're really cool characters but you'll be sad you won't be able to use all the nice stuff you find on your adventures.

Also, and related to the last one, play as a character that will maximize your experience in the game: one that will allow you to fight mêlée, ranged and even use some magic. For that I recommend a Bard (blade kit): go through BG1 focusing on short bows and in BG2 dual-wield swords (long swords or Katanas are, probably, the best).
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Post by kozeph »

Im not a veteran but i have played the thrillogy a couple of times this are my suggestions

1.for a first playthrough start with a fighter then dual it to thief, i usually for a first playthorugh go for a melee oriented character I dont have much experience with the bard class.

2. in BG2 when you find a rogue stone go to the brige district one of the doors leds to a little surprise ;)

3. keep yoshimo (plot wise) and for throne of bhaal you might want to accept the one that ask to joing you

4. (SPOILER i think) the canonical party for BG1 is Imoen, jaheira, khalid, minsc, dynaheir, your free to pick any npc you want but if you feel like doing the canonical thing those might be the npcs you want

as for mods Ive never used one, dont know why XD
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Post by Curry »

Don't use tutu. BG1 is better without it.
The problem is that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the people who are most certain of them.
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NuMystic
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Post by NuMystic »

Curry wrote:Don't use tutu. BG1 is better without it.
I know there are some purists that feel that way, but there is no WAY I am playing BG1 without Tutu. :)

If for nothing other than the walking speeds mod alone. I own BG1 from when it first came out and the slow walking speed frustrated me so much that I quit after my second day playing.
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Post by Ode to a Grasshopper »

People m,ore familiar with BG1 might want to add to this.

NPCs who fight
BG1: Jaheira and Khalid, Xzar and Montaron; Minsc and Dynaheir, Edwin; on the think so but not sure count the two dwarves will probably fight as will Shar-Teel and Eldoth.
BG2: Viconia and Keldorn; Minsc and Edwin; Aerie and Korgan; under the right circumstances Anomen and Keldorn/Aerie. Anomen will also attack the PC if you play your cards right/wrong and then tell him off for having a hissy fit over it.

In terms of stats, the only thing to watch for is that if any stat goes to 0 it's insta-death for you. There are enemies that can drain stats, though stat-boosting potions will help avoid death through stat-drain. Intelligence is the main one to watch here - as a side note, did you know undead cannot have their brains eaten?

General advice
Save often, and keep a backup save at the start of quests.

The default AI is rubbish, for battles you're better off turning it off and managing everything personally.

Use the TAB button to highlight usable objects. You'll miss a lot of loot if you don't.

Try and take out enemy spellcasters first. Arrows will interrupt their spells unless they have protections up, and elemental damage will go through some of the more common protections to boot. Poison is nice too.
On a related note, in BG2 there's a particularly nasty type of golem, which fortunately is stupidly big. This means they get stuck in doorways, and while supposedly only blunt weapons can damage them, ranged weapons with elemental damage will also work.

Most NPCs have a particular quest or two associated with them, so in BG2 at least it's better to have a 4 or 5-person core party and take the others on a rotating basis. This is harder in BG1 since they often come in 'til-death-do-us-part pairs.

In terms of balanced party composition, you want at least one mage, one cleric/druid, one thief, and one fighter. For BG2 a multi-class thief is more than sufficient. Ideally you want a backup mage and divine caster, and at least 3 capable fighters - multiclasses are great for this. You don't need more than one thief.

If you're comfortable with cheese, thief traps are the bomb.
Multi-class thieves can only backstab with thief-capable weapons. It's generally agreed that the best backstabbing weapon is a magic quarterstaff you can get in SoA/ToB.

Use the right tools for the job. Many weapons are only intended to be truly effective against a single kind of foe, but are really effective against said type.

When starting out BG1, you're weak as a kitten and ranged weapons are your friend. By mid-late BG2 you're pretty tough and melee or magic is the way to go, unless you're playing an Archer. If you're going an archer, shortbows are generally the better option unless you have a serious role-playing preference for longbows like me.
Likewise, most Paladin PCs seem to be 2-Handed-Sword users in BG2 at least (hint hint). If you want to go the sword-and-shield route, longswords, bastard swords, and maces or warhammers are a good option for stuffy-pants knights. If you are playing a Paladin and you choose the Cavalier kit, they can use magic throwing axes despite not being allowed ranged weapons.

If you can't handle a group encounter, try luring the enemies away one or two at a time, or using the environment to create bottlenecks. If you have an invisible character blocking a door foes won't be able to pass it and your ranged characters can thin the herd.

If your PC is a mage, don't choose Magic Missile or Chromatic Orb for your first spell. :o Try Sleep or Blindness instead.
If you are going a pure-class mage, consider being human and taking a few levels of thief or fighter first then dual-classing to mage. The expanded weapons options, damage and attack bonuses, and extra hitpoints are well worth it. Fan favourites include the level 13 kensai/mage, though that requires a reasonable grasp of the spell system, or the berserker/mage for the sweet immunities from the rage.
On a related note, while Fireball et al are pretty cool and fun to throw around, mages are actually more useful for controlling the battlefield with spells like Confusion and Slow (and summons) than at causing direct damage. Casting a single Confusion spell and letting your fighters clear up a group of ineffectual foes is way more effective than blasting everything with lightning bolts. The magic system is pretty involved which is why I recommend more than one playthrough, but if you only do one just read the spell descriptions and experiment.
If your mage's intelligence is too low to learn a spell (i.e. s/he too many spells already etc) have her/him drink an INT-boosting potion and try it then.
Mages/bards can wear elven chain without spell-casting failure, and thieves can wear elven chain and still use their thief abilities.

Use the BG1 stat-boosting tomes on your PC - the stat boosts for anyone other than your main character don't carry over into BG2, and most of the BG1 NPCs don't show up as playable characters anyway.

Over 100% resistance to something actually boosts your health when you get hit by that effect. This is really useful insta-healing in elemental-themed dungeons/puzzles.

Pre-battle buffing is your friend.

Pick-pocketing is a surprisingly underrated skill. Most of the time you get bugger-all but sometimes people carry some really useful and/or valuable stuff.

After level 20 Clerics using Turn Undead are the ultimate lich-killers - TU ignores magic resistance and spell protections.

It may seem minor, but your choice of party formation and portrait order can actually make quite a difference.

If your PC has low Charisma, don't fret too much - there's a ring that boosts it in one of the first mini-dungeons in BG2, and a heap of CHA-boosting items as well. Also, the game only uses the CHA of the lead portrait, so you can make an NPC with higher CHA your party leader and leech off their beauty instead. The higher your Charisma the better your prices in stores, so it is worth decking out your lead in CHA-boosting gear before major shopping trips.

If you have a character dual-wielding, you only get 1 attack per round with your offhand weapon even if hasted, so when choosing an offhand weapon look for weapons that give you decent effects while equipped rather than good damage or on-hit abilities.
Similar principle applies for shields - look for shields with good extra effects rather than just a good AC boost.

Keep the Pantaloons.

Don't bother with the BG2 romance if you're playing a female PC - Anomen's a douche and the Haer'Dalis romance got canned.
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Post by NuMystic »

Thank you all so much for the informative replies!
Ode to a Grasshopper wrote: In terms of balanced party composition, you want at least one mage, one cleric/druid, one thief, and one fighter. For BG2 a multi-class thief is more than sufficient. Ideally you want a backup mage and divine caster, and at least 3 capable fighters - multiclasses are great for this. You don't need more than one thief.
Party composition is looking like:

BG1
Berzerker (PC)
Imoen
Khalid
Jaheira
Minsc
Dynaheir

BG2
Berzerker (PC)
Imoen (Jan/Nalia/Yoshimo when she's not with)
Jaheira
Minsc
Aerie
5th slot free to rotate various NPCs in as situation arises

If by the end of BG1 I feel like I've got a better handle on the spellcasting system and combat, I might dual the Berserker at level 9 to a Mage. In that case I'll probably fill the frontline Vacuum with Keldorn or Anomen.
It may seem minor, but your choice of party formation and portrait order can actually make quite a difference.
Can you elaborate on this? I understand that the Party Leader should be the one with the highest CHA, but beyond that are there other ways that portrait order can have a significant impact?

I've gotten plenty of pointers on BG2 proficiencies, but could definitely use some advice on how to best build the above listed BG1 party as they level up since I know nothing at all about the various gear I'll be coming across in BG1/TotSC and what the category strengths/weaknesses are.

Also, I've heard that the one down side of the wonderfully open ended gameplay in BG1 is that a level 1-2 party can easily wander into areas that are WAY above their ability. I'd welcome a few pointers on things to specifically steer clear of at the start, and some suggestions on areas that are ideal to explore right away. (as long as it doesn't involve major storyline spoilers to do so)
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Post by Ode to a Grasshopper »

That's a pretty good party, you might want to leave Watcher's Keep for ToB though if you plan on getting the ToB-only NPC so he can level up a bit.
NuMystic wrote:Can you elaborate on this? I understand that the Party Leader should be the one with the highest CHA, but beyond that are there other ways that portrait order can have a significant impact?
Basically if you screw around with the party formations and character order you can keep your more vulnerable characters away from the thick of possible conflicts while moving about on the map. Once actual battles start you'll want to position your party relative to the enemies anyway, but if your foes get mingled up with your party or get through your screen of fighters it gets much harder to win battles. That's pretty much it, but much like buffing before encounters it's a small thing that can have a big impact. Also, some formations work well for open spaces but poorly for narrow passages.
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Post by NuMystic »

Ah, okay. I just got thrown off by the "portrait" part. I definitely understand how in game formation can make all the difference combat wise. Thanks for clarifying.
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Post by kmonster »

You should know that BG1 and BG2 are unfair games. You'll encounter unfair battles you won't be able to win without reloading and metagaming. Making certain choices (sometimes the unwise or dishonest choice is the beneficial one) outside dialogues can cut off big parts of the game and let you bypass lots of XP and powerful equipment.
Don't plan your party composition and equipment before playing the game, you might not meet those NPCs, they might leave or be too annoying to bear.
If you read a walkthrough about the areas you've played you'll feel cheated about what you've missed because of roleplaying, the BG games do their best to turn you from a roleplayer into a walkthrough-hugging robot.

I guess you'll get the best gaming experience if you play against the metagaming spirit of BG. Don't ever look into a walkthrough, don't reload at dialogues, don't bother if you don't get all possible XP, equipment, sidequests or NPCs, you don't need all this, even a solo berserker without special equipment can beat the game.

The only thing you can be sure to have during the whole game your character, so make him powerful. Essential for your human berserker are 18 dex (better AC) and 18 con (extra hitpoints). 18/.. strength is very useful, high cha helps a lot for dialogues and rewards (if it's low make another member the party leader), wisdom can be dumped to the minimum safely. You need 17 int for the option to dualclass to mage, dualing to thief at level 9 isn't a bad idea either.
For a berserker/mage I'd put 18 into str,dex and con, 17 into int and the rest into cha.
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Post by NuMystic »

kmonster wrote:the BG games do their best to turn you from a roleplayer into a walkthrough-hugging robot.
Only if you're obsessed with always having the very best item/outcome in every single situation and can't live with missing even the tiniest piece of a game in a single run through.

But then that has nothing to do with the basic premise of a quality role playing game anyway. The "problem" you're describing is actually a key feature of a game designed to have multiple replay value, and be enjoyable even if you only see a fraction of the total content.

I did mention explicitly in my original post that I am most of all interested in the story experience, and favor that over any power-gaming concerns.
I guess you'll get the best gaming experience if you play against the metagaming spirit of BG. Don't ever look into a walkthrough, don't reload at dialogues, don't bother if you don't get all possible XP, equipment, sidequests or NPCs, you don't need all this, even a solo berserker without special equipment can beat the game.
What? You mean, the way the game was designed to be played? Crazy! :laugh:

I chose the Berserker specifically because I want to avoid metagaming as much as possible, and it's one of the classes which requires the least micromanagement while still being formidable in the hands of a newcomer.
The only thing you can be sure to have during the whole game your character, so make him powerful. Essential for your human berserker are 18 dex (better AC) and 18 con (extra hitpoints). 18/.. strength is very useful, high cha helps a lot for dialogues and rewards (if it's low make another member the party leader), wisdom can be dumped to the minimum safely. You need 17 int for the option to dualclass to mage, dualing to thief at level 9 isn't a bad idea either.
For a berserker/mage I'd put 18 into str,dex and con, 17 into int and the rest into cha.
Awesome, I very much appreciate your taking the time to offer these specific tips.

Apart from the Berserker himself (Hammers/Axes) are there any weapon proficiencies you'd recommend for the rest of the party listed above? And they will be my final party... I haven't read any walkthroughs, and don't plan on it, but know where to find them already.
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Post by kmonster »

Just spread around the weapon proficiencies among your party members so you can use the weapons you'll find effectively. Everyone should be able to do physical damage from the distance.
The second proficiency point does make the biggest difference for warriors since you gain +1 to hit, +2 to damage and an extra half attack per round, the differences among the weapon types and enchantments aren't that big, so don't worry too much, most proficiency points will already be set when you meet the NPCs.
In BG1 there aren't good magical clubs and since katanas are introduced in BG2 you won't find them in in BG1.
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Post by Ode to a Grasshopper »

NuMystic wrote:Apart from the Berserker himself (Hammers/Axes) are there any weapon proficiencies you'd recommend for the rest of the party listed above? And they will be my final party... I haven't read any walkthroughs, and don't plan on it, but know where to find them already.
It's a well-rounded party, as long as you can handle Aerie's whining you should be right.
Berzerker (PC) - Consider a few points in flails and longswords as well, longswords are the most common sort of magical weapon with the widest variety of effects and there are 2 sweet flails available early on that are well worth having. When you're going shopping deck him out with the Helm of Glory, Plate of Balduran, Blade of Roses, and Hrothgar's Axe for a major CHA boost. Basically make him your 1-handed weapon specialist with dual-wielding for best results.
Imoen (Jan/Nalia/Yoshimo when she's not with) - Robe of the Good Archmagi (no penalty to Thief skills and full casting), Tuigan shortbow (only +1 but an extra attack per round), and the Staff of the Magi (equipped Invisibility for hassle-free trap-detecting). If you're going to bother with backstabbing (not really worth it IMO) a decent katana is prolly your best bet until you get the Staff of the Ram, but I wouldn't bother.
Jaheira - Dual-wield (I just use Shadowkeeper to reassign her shield proficiencies but you can do it legit if you want) Belm+2 in the offhand and whatever decent scimitar or clubs you have onhand. Keep hold of the decent druid-only staves as well - one gives you bonus spell slots and the other lets you summon Shambling Mounds. For ranged weapons I'd go with daggers for the magical throwing knives, but most of the time she'll be melee. Keep hold of the Shield of Balduran for Beholder fights too.
Minsc - 2-handed weapons and 2-handed weapon style, mainly 2-handed-swords but put some points into halberds and quarterstaves/rods too. Maces are a good choice of blunt weapon, especially since his racial enemy is vampires and one of the best anti-undead weapons is a mace. It's probably worth holding on to at least 1 decent 2-handed swords and halberds for the ToB NPC too.
Aerie - Keep the Robe of Vecna and Amulet of Power for Aerie for their reduced spellcasting time. For weapons she'll mostly be dealing ranged damage, and your only option is slings. Give her a decent magical shield (I suggest the Shield of Harmony for the immunities, though she needs the AC bonus too) and the Defender of Easthaven Flail for the 20% melee damage reduction when equipped.
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Post by NuMystic »

Thanks kgmonster and Ode to a Grasshopper for the additional feedback and tips!

Since I won't be able to take Khalid along as a party member in BG2 anyway, was wondering about suitable replacements for BG1 even though he's "canonical" and paired with Jaheira.

If something just happened to cause his untimely demise, and he was left off the party roster, which of the following would you recommend based on both Party Balance and enjoyable personality:

Ajantis
Branwen (romance-able with the BG1NPC project installed I think?)
Kivan
Coran
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Post by Ode to a Grasshopper »

Poor Khalid, he has to be the most killed-and-left-behind character in the whole BG-verse, and then the PC often goes and seduces his grieving widow to boot.

Branwen wins on party balance, personality is a matter of taste.
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Post by mrdeluxe »

You need a good Archer. Take Coran or Kivan. I personally prefer Coran: invest in Hide in Shadows and Move Silently and use him to backstab as well.
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Post by NuMystic »

mrdeluxe wrote:You need a good Archer. Take Coran or Kivan. I personally prefer Coran: invest in Hide in Shadows and Move Silently and use him to backstab as well.
Thanks for the tip.

Did some reading, and I'll probably take Kivan since he's available from the start, and will be defaulted to Ranger>Archer by TuTu with the BG2 Archer Kit.
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Post by Jordoo »

My advice would be to plan on playing it again ;) . Once is just not enough to fully enjoy it IMO.

If your definitally bent on only once SAVE ALL THE TIME! Especially early on as you could die at any moment in the wilderness.
:) Once again time to give someone the boot to make room for Coran. LOL :)
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Post by Stworca »

First of all, you absolutely must patch your games, not only with the latest official patch, but one of the fan-made aswell (trust me when i say, that there are hundrets of bugs in game post-official-patch)

Mage (sorcerer) is a character that at first will be a pain to even have in party, but once you reach middle of BG2, he'll exterminate enemies in nanoseconds, and turn hellish battles into silly encounters.

You absolutely need a healer (cleric or druid) and an archer in BG1, while in BG2 there are enough powerfull potions, that "healers" won't be important. A cleric / druid will however gain a new role in second Baldur, mainly because they have lots of very usefull buffs, that are otherwise unachievable.

Talk to every NPC.

If its Your first play through, do not just scroll through text in dialogues, people have important stuff to say, clues that journal won't always contain.

It is possible to beat the game with any character, without party, when use all the tools you can. This means that if You're having trouble somewhere, take a deep breath, think about possible solutions and.. Take every usefull item that you can carry

Its a bad idea to kill named NPCs for no reason.

While in BG1 beign evil is very hard, and for most part it is recommended that you play a hero, in the sequel you can turn into mean SOB and slaughter entire cities.. Just do it after you finish all quests ;) Be warned - You get better rewards and more xp while beign good.

As a ranger or paladin you must play a hero, if your reputation drops below 6, or your aligment changes to evil, you will lose all your abilities.

A final word : For quests other than "Bring me some water" or "Talk to XXX in YYY city", there is ALWAYS another way to solve it, this is why Baldurs Gate is still popular.

Edit : And don't attack Drizzt, unless You're sure Your party is equipped with best possible gear, with as high levels as possible, as many summons as possible, hasted and ready to take out the most powerfull character in BG1 (by kiting)
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Post by Sensei »

Stworca wrote:
Edit : And don't attack Drizzt, unless You're sure Your party is equipped with best possible gear, with as high levels as possible, as many summons as possible, hasted and ready to take out the most powerfull character in BG1 (by kiting)
I agree, don't attack Drizzt but if you just happen to have an elf with you and have left the AI on you might attack Drizzt anyway because he is after all a dark elf. On a side note (my party did attack because of that) - my party was slaughtered my Drizzt in about 1.5 seconds (real time) we had no chance.
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