Newbie needs help with character creation ( collectors edition)

[zanthia]

I realize there was a similar post to this about a month ago but as that person wanted a completely different character I hope it is okay I start a new thread.

I only play a game once and want a character that will be fun and give me the most possible side quests. My ideal character is one that is primarily a fighter but is also very good with magic ( offensive spells and healing spells). For example in NWN I loved playing a battle cleric and in the elder scrolls games I loved playing a fighter who had very good attack and defensive magic. I have never been big into thieves or monk classes.

As far as weapons goes, I do prefer swords but am open to others. As the game seems to require you to manually bash with the shield which I just don’t like to do then I would prefer a character who either dual wields or uses a 2 handed weapon.

I read that the spellfire skill is very powerful but am concerned that a wizard character might just be too much magic and not enough combat. I was thinking of a warwitch as a possibility as it uses the 2 handed pole weapons and has a lot of magic. Any other good classes given what I have said. Being female I do like playing female characters.

As character creation needs to be planned out before you start what would be a good path to take for the 3rd tier. What about race – human or elf?

Thank you in advance for any help or advice you can give me.

[swcarter]

I think it depends on if you want to be a fighter with some magical abilities, or a mage with some fighting skills. The answer to that question will determine what your race and third tier class should be.

I didn't like the two-handed weapons in the game, but blocking with a shield is really useful. So I'd recommend you try something like

Fighter->Knight
Mage->Valkyrie

and then either Lord or War Witch as your last class. For race, pick human if you want to be more of a fighter, and elf if you want to be more of a mage.

SWC

[zanthia]

thanks for reply, I understand blocking may be useful but knowing myself it will not be done. I have arthrtis so I need to remap the mouse so I can move with the RMB ( via 3rd party software as the game does not allow you to do so) so block get put on keyboard and just isn't practical to use. Fighter would be first and magic a strong secondary.

how is the crusader class?

any suggestions on what heraldry to start the game with?

also what about the points, do I put into stats or the skills at character creation. I have seen mention of intelligence being very important for any character.

[Wulf]

I am sorry to hear you suffer from arthritis. In that light, Dungeon Lords may not be the ideal game to play, as parts of it require deft mouse movement; you may find some areas very difficult to manoeuvre.

The Crusader class brings a good deal of mêlée with it. It'll most likely require you to be able to block (see below), and to swiftly move your character about in order to trigger mêlée attack patterns. Should you decide to play a Crusader nonetheless, you may want to put an emphasis on two rune spells, namely Anti-Magic Shield (reflects spells) and Shards of Stone (does very high damage to ANY monster).

Intelligence is indeed immensely important, the skill limits and caveats posted here: http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/dunge ... 16739.html apply to any and all characters.

As for blocking, it is important to understand how shields work. Firstly, anyone may carry a shield, regardless of equipped weapons. Secondly, shields, including the three magical rune shields, are only taken into consideration while blocking, and shields can only be damaged during blocking.

Let's take the Shield of Rothn, for example: It offers +5 armour, and 50% magic protection. As long as you only walk around with it, it'll confer no boni whatsoever. While you block with it, it'll add 5 points to your overall armour value, and 50 points to your magic resistance. Thus, you may reach magic immunity during blocking, in the general direction you point the shield.

Shields provide important protection not only against mêlée opponents but against enemy casters, too, since almost any spell in the game can be blocked or even returned to the caster.

If you cannot block, you may want to use the savegame editor to add the Blast Nova and Cataclysm spells to your character, and use lightning and similar spells to prevent enemies from closing in on you.

Non-lighting type spells can usually be evaded but that requires swift movements which I could imagine may be rather painful for you, too.

[zanthia]

Thanks wulf for your reply. In most action rpgs I have been able to make do even if it means setting the game on easy. When I play melee characters I do attack head on, never do avoidance maneuvers such as strafes, rolling, etc. I do need to heal more often. When I do have problems I will cheat if I have to but prefer not to. Also if a game allows it I will level up a lot so I go into an area stronger than you should be.

Now from what you say I am wondering if going the warwitch or wizard may be better. Is there any good character plan that would allow me the flexibility to decide depending on how I like it. I was thinking of starting as an adept so I could get the heal spell right away. And then do mage so I can test out magic. Does this sound good?

Some questions:
I saw it recommended that you get the elven spear in the first chest. If you cannot ID anything how do you know if you get it. Would it say elven spear and not just give the stats or just say spear. I tried to ID and it says like 25% and then it says 0 after I fail.

Regarding revive, I died while trying to open the chest in the hut so I revived. Is the stat loss permanent. If so whats the point of it.

Difficulty level – is the experience the same?

Heraldry – what do you recommend to start with? I was thinking of either the acrobat as that was not something I would be raising a lot in the beginning or the one that give you luck ( read it gives you an increase of better items in the chests)

Is there a quick save ?

[Wulf]

Thanks wulf for your reply. In most action rpgs I have been able to make do even if it means setting the game on easy. When I play melee characters I do attack head on, never do avoidance maneuvers such as strafes, rolling, etc. I do need to heal more often. When I do have problems I will cheat if I have to but prefer not to. Also if a game allows it I will level up a lot so I go into an area stronger than you should be.

You're welcome. The problem here is game mechanics: Every time an opponent lands a damaging hit on your character (including spells that you are not immune against), and every time you cast a spell, your character has to recover for a moment, unable to react. The length of this recovery period can be shortened to a minimum by the Iron Will diabolic skill for getting hit and by Spellfire to reduce the recovery after spells, but it's always there, and the majority of enemies will attack in hordes/flocks/packs/etc. If one enemy gets a hit in, the others may use the moment your character takes to recover from the blow or spell to get more hits in, and that'll be it.

Unless you can actively dodge, block, and use the combat moves to your advantage, the only way around this is not to get hit in the first place, and that requires spells, since ranged weapons are drastically underpowered in this game.

As for getting stronger: Spell damage is determined by your spell resistance only. You can boost it through trinkets and other pieces of equipment, and by blocking with a suitable shield. Higher defence means you're harder to hit in mêlée, but letting enemies close in on you requires mouse action to get through alive. You'll really want to avoid getting hit.

Now from what you say I am wondering if going the warwitch or wizard may be better. Is there any good character plan that would allow me the flexibility to decide depending on how I like it. I was thinking of starting as an adept so I could get the heal spell right away. And then do mage so I can test out magic. Does this sound good?

The Warwitch is one of the most powerful classes, and the massive boni that come with it make it a very good choice to explore things. To become a Warwitch, you'll need one second-tier class that gives you all the heavy gear skills: Valkyrie or Paladin or Battlemage.

You might want to try Adept/Mage/Sorcerer/Valkyrie/Warwitch. That'll allow you to use almost every item in the game, and it's not very hard to play. As a Warwitch, you can pick and choose between spells or mêlée or any combination thereof.

Starting as an Adept is a good idea for just about any character, as it also grants the use of magic weapons right away and gives access to the better Celestial spells. (The goblin staff from the mage in the shack requires a single point in Magic Weapons and Light Polearms each, spending these points is marginal.)

Some questions:
I saw it recommended that you get the elven spear in the first chest. If you cannot ID anything how do you know if you get it. Would it say elven spear and not just give the stats or just say spear. I tried to ID and it says like 25% and then it says 0 after I fail.

The Elven Spear has unique graphics, you can't mistake it. It's also the only spear that can spawn in that chest. I think.

Regarding revive, I died while trying to open the chest in the hut so I revived. Is the stat loss permanent. If so whats the point of it.

The stat loss is permanent but you'll receive an item to avert that early in the game. You will still lose unspent skill points, though. If you end up dead, it may be better to reload; remember to always use different save slots.

Difficulty level – is the experience the same?

No, it isn't. Easy gives less experience, hard gives more than standard.

Heraldry – what do you recommend to start with? I was thinking of either the acrobat as that was not something I would be raising a lot in the beginning or the one that give you luck ( read it gives you an increase of better items in the chests)

Personally, I usually get the Fool of Fortune (= Luck), but it's largely a matter of preference. You might be fine with the Acrobat, too. (I find the Acrobat rather expendable, so I never choose it.) I generally pick heraldries that further magic, as everything else (read: skills) in the game doesn't benefit from very high numbers.

Despite what some NPCs say, there is absolutely nothing in the game that boosts attributes, the story-related 12 points per attribute are the only attribute boost you'll ever receive.

Is there a quick save ?

Unfortunately, there isn't.

[zanthia]

thank you again.

in the warwitch build you mentioned is there an advantage to going sorceror say over paladin or battlemage?

The warwitch requires a female character so which is better the female human or the female elf? The elf seems to be better in INT which is so important but will the lack of strength be a problem.

Is level 5 a good level to try to get to in starting areas before sewers or should I go higher.

I like the idea of starting with the fool heraldry. In character creation should all points be put in intelligence?

thank you again for your help. it is much appreciated

[Wulf]

The Warwitch needs one second tier class that gives magic boni and one that gives armour and weapons boni. Sorcerer/Valkyrie is the best balanced option, especially for new players. It gives the 'right' boni to easily become a Warwitch. The class requirements for Warwitch are the lowest for any third tier class.

The elf girl gets even more boni, making the game even easier.

Many players go up to level 7 or 8 before the sewers, as the first dungeon in town can be quite tough, and levelling up at the shacks is somewhat easier than levelling up in town.

Since you'll soon gather points, putting everything on INT at the start isn't such a bad idea. The first few skill levels generally aren't very expensive, so they can be bought at the shacks no problem.

[zanthia]

I have restarted as a elf girl adept with the luck heraldry. Everything has gone into intelligence except one point each in str, vitality , light weapons and magic weapons. So far so good playing on normal. How high should i get intelligence before putting more points in the other stats. I will stay in the starter area to level 8 as you suggested.

however at the first chest, i must have reloaded over a dozen times and still no elven spear. will try again tomorrow. I have seen goblins with a bow but they never drop them. having a bow here would be nice against the poisonous scorpion. the goblin staff doesn't seem to have any range to it.

[file read error]

I have seen goblins with a bow but they never drop them. having a bow here would be nice against the poisonous scorpion.

If you get close to them they will switch to their sword, and they only drop the weapon they have out when you kill them. So you either have to charge them very fast and strike them down before they can switch their weapon (not easy to do), or use some sort of magic (magic missile, pacify or something like that) to prevent them from switching to their sword.

[Lady Kate]

First chest...

I know these guys prefer the spear out of that first chest, but personally, I wait until I get either something to throw or a bow. Preferably the elven bow with a strike bonus to it, or the shuriken.

I raise my intelligence as much as I have patience for and sink as many points into dex, agility and strength as it takes to make me feel like I'm not wasting my time trying to hit and kill.

I do raise certain skills, but keeping in mind that if I raise a skill NOW, I may have wasted the advancement points because each point I raise my intelligence, I lower the cost of a skill level.

I haven't tried bashing the chests--I may try that sometime--but since I can't *stand* to leave a chest unopened, I add points to my thief skills before I go into the sewers. A celestial Crystal of Time will save on raising thief skills.

[Lady Kate]

Strategy in that first part of the game...

I generally won't fight hand-to-hand. I find the best rocks to hang out at, and run to them when something comes along. I also hang out at the shacks, but *my* experience has been that I get more adversaries if I hang out at the rocks.

I save *often* and reload LOTS. *heh* I despise dying, and will only revive myself if I have a save BEFORE the death. I'll die, revive, and continue dying until I've figured out how to kill the darned menace! Once I've figured that out, I'll reload that previous save, and blow the heck out of the bad guy.

(That said, with a real baddie, I'll very often save mid-battle many, many times reload from there if I die. Danged Vampire.. Oh, that Sister's Quest 3rd level? witch that used the gas and locusts......I insisted on tackling HER before entering Naga. What a PITA *that* was.)

[zanthia]

I know these guys prefer the spear out of that first chest, but personally, I wait until I get either something to throw or a bow. Preferably the elven bow with a strike bonus to it, or the shuriken.

I raise my intelligence as much as I have patience for and sink as many points into dex, agility and strength as it takes to make me feel like I'm not wasting my time trying to hit and kill.

I do raise certain skills, but keeping in mind that if I raise a skill NOW, I may have wasted the advancement points because each point I raise my intelligence, I lower the cost of a skill level.

I haven't tried bashing the chests--I may try that sometime--but since I can't *stand* to leave a chest unopened, I add points to my thief skills before I go into the sewers. A celestial Crystal of Time will save on raising thief skills.

I have not seen a bow or shuriken yet. but i may just do that.

playing as an adept which thief skills and how much do you suggest i put in before entering the sewers.

I do save very often. so far have not died but if I should I will definitely reload rather than revive.

I think i am going to start putting one point into str and dex and then alternate that with 1 pt in vitality and agility on level up and then the rest into intelligence.

[Lady Kate]

New Character..

Just as a side note--I went looking for that elven spear, today.

I started a new character at the prodding of (Fred). *heh* This is a thrall rogue, and my plan is to play R/M/BattleMage/Hunter/RangerLord. It starts with a throwing knife. The spear really is handy.

There is no Adept in there whatsoever, so I'll be stocking up on heal potions! LOL

I know you can still buy the ice and fire shields, as well as healing crystals, as well as peace and time, and eventually I'll get the solar ray crystal, though by that time, I hope I'll have enough arcane magic, I won't need it.

I'm liking Nether magic more and more as I continue to play. Between that poison cloud, sleep, and the summons--Nether magic's pretty powerful!

[file read error]

Oh, that Sister's Quest 3rd level? witch that used the gas and locusts......I insisted on tackling HER before entering Naga. What a PITA *that* was.)

Did you at least buy some unpetrify crystals before trying to defeat her? They can and will safe your life if you're fighting Twisted Sylphs without a gas mask. Or use the crystal of air/potions of liquid air, they should counteract the gas clouds.

I haven't tried bashing the chests--I may try that sometime--but since I can't *stand* to leave a chest unopened, I add points to my thief skills before I go into the sewers. A celestial Crystal of Time will save on raising thief skills.

Heh, you know, my brother and me never raise any thief skills, we just open chests without such skills and without crystals of "bullet time". Of course it's much easier to misclick, but with high "disarm trap" skills it takes soooooo loooooong for the annoying slider to move and most of the time one of the symbols is at the very right making it take way too long! Therefore I don't put anything into disarm trap and meanwhile I'm very good at opening chests without it. One or two symbols = piece of cake, three symbols = still very doable, four symbols = quite hard but not impossible, five symbols = Crystal of Time .

playing as an adept which thief skills and how much do you suggest i put in before entering the sewers.

Zero points into Disarm Trap, but two or three into Inspect.

I started a new character at the prodding of (Fred). *heh* This is a thrall rogue, and my plan is to play R/M/BattleMage/Hunter/RangerLord. It starts with a throwing knife. The spear really is handy.

Good luck, and have fun!

and eventually I'll get the solar ray crystal, though by that time, I hope I'll have enough arcane magic, I won't need it.

Solar Ray is incredibly useless, doing almost no damage, especially if the character has no celestial magic learning bonuses... if you're playing with Arcane Magic, just replace that solar ray with the much more powerful Zap spell!