Baldur's Gate - like game ?

BlueTemplar · Post by **BlueTemplar** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:02 pm

Is there any recent game that recaptures the magic of Baldur's Gate (II) ?

I tried Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 and Dragon Age : Origins, but they all lack the complex turn-based combat that made Baldur's Gate so good (without forgetting it's excellent story and voice acting). And the camera of NWN frustrates me to no end...

pingu53 · Post by **pingu53** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:06 pm

Icewind Dale 1+2 and Planescape Torment are the only other ones i know of

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:25 pm

Did you try Baldur's gate 1 or Throne of Bhaal?

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:03 pm

Icewind Dale I has some decent combat and enjoyable storyline
Icewind Dale II has simplified combat and terrible story - avoid!
Planescape.. Well, you should play it regardless.

childofbhaal · Post by **childofbhaal** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:41 pm

Recent?
-Mask of the Betrayer(NWN2s first expansion).The camera is indeed something horrible(I uninstalled the game after half hour and didnt touch it 2 years long just because of the camera but once you get a bit used to it you will find it borderline bearable).It is a really good RPG(though a bit short) if you give it a chance.

-Dragon Age: Origins(not DnD): according to Bioware it is supposed to be the spiritual successor of Baldurs Gate 2.

I know that you dont like them but there is nothing else recent what reminds me of BG2(but they deserve a 2. chance imo

)

Old:
You will find Icewind Dale 1-2 fun if you are looking for more BG2 like combat but the focus of the games is mainly combat(but it can be fun).

Planescape Torment is another masterpiece if you are looking for a deep RPG.

Temple of Elemental Evil(DnD,turn based combat,not infinity engine but looks almost like infinity engine games).A very short game but you should give it a try with the circleof8 mod.

Other isometric view games you may like(not DnD and not infinity engine):

-Arcanum Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura(fantasy mixed with tech,I dont know what thats called)
-Fallout 2(not fantasy)
-Jagged Allience 2(not fantasy)

Scifi games where you get a party like in BG2(but no isometric view):
-Kotor 1-2
-Mass Effect 1-2

The truth is that there is nothing what recaptures the magic of BG2(except BG1+ToTSC and ofc Throne of Bhaal) there is always something important missing(example: PST: combat is bad, IWD1-2: good combat but the RPG part is shallow).BG2 is my N1 favorite game so I know what it feels like to look for a game like BG2 but so far nothing I found was as good as the good old BG2.

Edit: Drakensang 1-2? They are still on my "games I will try 1 day" list but as I heard there is resemblence between Drakensangs and BG2.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:19 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:Is there any recent game that recaptures the magic of Baldur's Gate (II) ?

I tried Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2 and Dragon Age : Origins, but they all lack the complex turn-based combat that made Baldur's Gate so good (without forgetting it's excellent story and voice acting). And the camera of NWN frustrates me to no end...

No, or at least not that I know of.

Though it's not exactly recent, the best "stab" at it I've played is surprisingly Jade Empire (..pc version). It's much more linear though, and the characters aren't quite as well developed. Still, it is one of a small handful of games I have that's actually worth playing again (..and not quite so memorable that the thought of doing so is off-putting).

You can also use a gamepad with it, and it has its own "charm" with potentially more interesting combat.

Whenever it gets released, Age of Decadence might have a shot as being as good or better.. to soon to tell though.

Age of Decadence

Darth Gavinius · Post by **Darth Gavinius** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:26 am

You could try Temple of Elemental Evil. Very tactical turn based combat, though I personally couldn't get into it.

Icewind Dale captures the essence of the combat (if not the epicness of the story) and scratches the itch and there are mods that make it more like BG.

NWN has some modules that capture the spirit of BG better than the OC or expansion packs - if you can get over the camera. Aelund Saga, Shadowlords/Dreamcatcher/Demon, Tortured Hearts I & II to name a few.

Or as has already been mentioned Arcanum of Steamworks and Magic Obscura, which has similar mechanics but takes place in a steampunk universe. Think victorian era with elves, dwarves and magic.

Jade Empire is I would say is more like KOTOR with martial arts than baldurs gate II like.

Last thing, although I've never played any of them you might want to check out the games Spiderweb software makes like Avadon and Avernum.

EDIT: For more recent you could try Drakensang - it is similar to Dragon Age with slower turn based mechanics.

BlueTemplar · Post by **BlueTemplar** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:12 am

Thanks, in fact I don't really care if the games are recent or not - I even found myself briefly playing X-Com with it's 320x200 resolution the other day. I've already played Planescape and Icewind Dale. I might give Fallout another try.
Thanks for your suggestions.

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:55 pm

I would also try Drakensang games. They're rather good.

Scottg · Post by **Scottg** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:35 pm

Darth Gavinius wrote: Jade Empire is I would say is more like KOTOR with martial arts than baldurs gate II like.

.

I've never played KOTR.

But if KOTR is like Jade Empire, than that is rather similar to BG2.

Jade Empire (PC) and BG2 both have:

Role-play with a leveling system. Support characters with depth. Developed story. Melee and "Mysticism" combat. ("Mysticism" as in Magical, Psionic, Chi, etc.. - i.e. non-mundane.) Good graphics, with the potential for similar "top-down" perspective. etc..

IF KOTR has this..it make me want to spend some money.

galraen · Post by **galraen** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:58 pm

Scottg wrote:I've never played KOTR.

But if KOTR is like Jade Empire, than that is rather similar to BG2.

Jade Empire (PC) and BG2 both have:

Role-play with a leveling system. Support characters with depth. Developed story. Melee and "Mysticism" combat. ("Mysticism" as in Magical, Psionic, Chi, etc.. - i.e. non-mundane.) Good graphics, with the potential for similar "top-down" perspective. etc..

IF KOTR has this..it make me want to spend some money.

KOTOR has many of those aspects, but as it uses th Aurora (?) engine the view point is like NWN, so not really iso 3d. KOTOR 2 uses the same engine, has some improvements but is very badly let down by not being a finished game.

doady · Post by **doady** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:48 pm

Try Jagged Alliance 2.

alexjh · Post by **alexjh** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:56 pm

Stworca wrote:Icewind Dale II has simplified combat and terrible story - avoid!

IWDII has simplified combat? How on earth did you reach that conclusion - 3rd edition gives you far more tactical options than pretty much all the 2ed Infinity games. As for the story, it's no Shakepeare, but its perfectly servicable.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:42 pm

alexjh wrote:IWDII has simplified combat? How on earth did you reach that conclusion - 3rd edition gives you far more tactical options than pretty much all the 2ed Infinity games. As for the story, it's no Shakepeare, but its perfectly servicable.

3rd edition does give you far more tactical options, indeed.
But Icewind Dale II doesn't have any spells with any potential. Magic system was completely and utterly dumbed down from BG2.

One can not even compare the two games combat-wise.

alexjh · Post by **alexjh** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:24 pm

Stworca wrote:3rd edition does give you far more tactical options, indeed.
But Icewind Dale II doesn't have any spells with any potential. Magic system was completely and utterly dumbed down from BG2.

One can not even compare the two games combat-wise.

I'm intrigued, what exactly do you define as potential? If nothing else I'd say Druid spells in IWD2, and for that matter, Druids in general are vastly better than BG2.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:03 pm

alexjh wrote:I'm intrigued, what exactly do you define as potential? If nothing else I'd say Druid spells in IWD2, and for that matter, Druids in general are vastly better than BG2.

Countering protection from fire / weapons / whatever with breach spell, which is countered by spell defense, which is countered by secret word, which is countered by-- Yes. This is a complex magic system. Toss Time stop on top of that, and you have something that IWD2 fireball spam can not compete with.

The one and only spell in IWD2 that required actually using any tactics to counter it was "seven eyes" (or whatever it was called).

On Hof mode : The summons were meaningless, the CC spells nearly useless, the damaging ones you had to use a dozen on every group of enemies. The game was more of a party version of diablo, than BG2 successor.

Not to mention the absolute ZERO main-plot-related choices left for player to make.

ToEE is a good game that i didn't mention. Although it's extremely short.

doady · Post by **doady** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:55 pm

Just because magic is totally unbalanced and completely overpowered in BG2 doesn't mean that it has a more complex combat system than IWD2.

alexjh · Post by **alexjh** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:44 pm

But if it is pretty much a set chain of counters then surely it becomes a (admittedly energy intensive) automatic tactic rather than actually granting any more choices? Besides, when I was doing my co-op runthrough of BG2 it effectively ended up as cloudkill spamming a lot of the time.

In my mind, my favourite thing about the D&D combat system in games is that it budgets your spells, and its that that really makes you consider what spells you equip. Unlike Diablo you cannot just fire out fireballs, you have say six with no guarantee you'll be able to rest in between or that the enemies won't close with you making them a massive liability. But yes, I'd personally argue that the meat of tactics are in the budgeting.

Besides, Icewind Dale was never supposed to be a successor to Baldurs Gate, it was rather explicitly supposed to be competition for Diablo, and there is nothing wrong with that. It is a different sort of game to BG, which, much as I love BG2 and PST, I'm glad of as it provides a different tone of experience.

Plus I'm going to be vaguely controversial and say that I consider Icewind Dale 2 to be superior to Baldur's Gate II in a good number of ways - while BG clearly has the better plot and characters, in my mind IWD2 has superior tactical options, art, music and interface.

As for the plot choices, given the format of the story, I don't think it really needs them - the format is much closer to the classical Tolkienesque "difficult journey to go defeat the big evil" which actually makes the overall narrative structure more iconic. The one big place where you could put in a narrative choice (discovering the reasons why Isair and Madae started this war) I actually like the fact that it doesn't give you the choice to broach that as it leaves you with a niggling doubt that although the games conclusion is inevitable, it wasn't necessarily right.

Stworca · Post by **Stworca** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:49 pm

doady wrote:Just because magic is totally unbalanced and completely overpowered in BG2 doesn't mean that it has a more complex combat system than IWD2.

...right. Are you trolling, good sir?
Balance has absolutely nothing to do with complexity. It's all about diversity.

Power of magic is an issue in D&D system as a whole, be it p&p (mage dying to a warrior? He surely was sleeping) or games (same as before).
While BG2 had some over the top spells (Protection from god) it wasn't those that made it more open.

It had the "power" spells, like wish and time stop, and it was more mage-combat-oriented (Main antagonist was a mage, in ToB it only deepened). It's the mage on mage fights - and possibilities - that set it up higher. At least in my opinion.

Edit : @ alexjh. I see your point, and respect it, although i still strongly disagree with you. (Aside from the part about Art and interface naturally. Also : Sherincal was the most unique and - in my opinion - best character ever introduced in IE games)

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:53 pm

I disagree about druids. They are better in IWD2 in some respects, but there is no reason to even take a druid along unless you use a mod such the weidu mod including druids. The reason is that druids don't get domains and their spells are poor compared to sorcerors. They are cool with the weidu mod.

In contrast druids in BG2 are not good, but this is made up for with a few nice spells such as ironskin, insects whatever, and the elemental prince. In effect there IS actually a reason to even have a druid in BG2. Where there is no reason to have one in IWD2.

I however don't agree that IWD2 is not tactical. It is one of the most tactical games I have played aside from being an easy game once you are high level. Its not superior to BG2 but it is superior to IWD1 in my opinion.