HotU and spiders - how bad is it?

QuenGalad · Post by **QuenGalad** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:24 am

After a few years, I decided to go back to NWN, which, for all the criticism, had its good points. I don't own the game so I borrowed one from my new SO and this time got the expansions as well.

I liked the first one very much, with henchmen conversations, class-relevant dialogue options and so forth. It scored expecially well with me for my ranger being able to actually track things.

But, there's one problem. I'm arachnophobic, and vanilla NWN was already quite a trial - usually I'd enlist Delan Red Tiger to clean any spider-infested area for me while I waited securely out of sight. However, the expansion added "improved" animations with spiders actually jumping at you from above... Which is all very well for realism and immersion, but it's bloody frightening if you can already barely glimpse at the screen as it is.

I got through SoU without any permanent trauma, but I'm fearing the HotU expansion because, well, I suppose it's positively teeming with spiders. So my question is, can some person of good will tell me, honestly, is it a good idea for me to play it? I've heard good things about the storyline and characters, but the drow theme has me a bit apprehensive.

Any help will be appreciated.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:05 pm

I remember playing Pools of Darkness rpg in highschool with my cheese and crackers and having a little smoke. My character was in Lloths world and I was fighting spiders and drow. At some point a real spider a pretty big one surprised me in real life and possibly the smoke helped me focus my 'chi' or whatever and I in one fluid snap of my cheese knife chopped the head off the spider. Not mashing while gripping it but a swift slashing motion into air!

Thylein · Post by **Thylein** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:36 pm

I can't remeber any area that was really full of spiders. Maybe here and there some but not hole areas full of them.

Endugu · Post by **Endugu** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:00 am

The first dungeon you enter - actually, the first level of the first dungeon - features two (if I recall correctly) encounters with spiders.

In act 2, there's an entire dungeon level that is inhabited by giant spiders. However, you can sneak/run past most of them and the whole area is entirely optional to visit, anyway.

Beyond that, there might be some spellcasting enemies summoning a spider occasionally, but I don't remember any other spider-nests.

Darth Gavinius · Post by **Darth Gavinius** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:48 am

Not sure but I think there were a few spider infested areas, and I think there is a major battle with a Bebilith in Act II. There may also be non-hostile spiders wandering around the Drow City, but it has been a good long time since I played HOTU.

I will add, that if you really cannot abide spiders... do not under any circumstances play vanilla Skyrim! You also might want to miss Drakensang: The River of Time. A lot of developers seem to like preying on humanities mortal fear of spiders as a lot of RPG's in the last few years have featured them extensively.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:39 am

It's funny, I feel like I've been developing my own arachnophobia over the years, as well. I guess I'm not deathly afraid of them, but I really, really don't like them. Dragon Age was really pretty unpleasant, and yes, I've seen the videos of Skyrim.

I don't remember HotU being especially bad (though the last time I played it, I wasn't as sensitive as I am now.) There is a bebelith, which may or may not be nasty, and you didn't mention whether or not driders freak you out. But I'd say it's worth a try. Personally, I find the graphics of NWN poor enough that the spiders don't get to me nearly in the way that modern games' spiders do.

Thylein · Post by **Thylein** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:56 am

In the drow city are no spiders. If I recall it correctly they don't worship Lloth bot her daughter.

QuenGalad · Post by **QuenGalad** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:31 am

Thanks for all the replies

the GB community does it once again!

I've heard about Drakensang being unadvisable for me, and Skyrim won't run on my pc anyway, which is a relief because I stumbled upon some screenshots, and, well, no thanks. Although the worst was Sacred, which - with no warning whatsoever - sprang on me what might be the nastiest scare of my gamer's life.

The biggest tragedy is the Hobbit movie, coming soon - and damn well overrun with the disgusting things! I could barely read that bit in the book, so I guess it'll be another 20 minutes in the cinema with eyes shut tight. Sigh.

Anyway, you guys have motivated me - I'm going to make a ranger with insects as a racial enemy and I'll see the population thinned

Nymie_the_Pooh · Post by **Nymie_the_Pooh** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:02 pm

If you ever get a computer that runs Skyrim then there is a mod that changes all the spiders into bears. It doesn't change the environments so there are still places with webs as the main decoration feature, but it might help.

QuenGalad · Post by **QuenGalad** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:25 am

Ok, so I did it. There were some spider summons in ch1, but nothing the good old tactics of "put a cloth over the screen so that you only see the left corner with your pc's current action and the right corner with the health bar" couldn't handle.
The whole chapter one seemed completely superfluous, story-wise. An innkeeper organizing a city's defense against an army of drow? And said defense being five adventurers and a kobold? Really?

And the ending with that geas... Good Gygax!

The second chapter was much more enjoyable, with the two henchmen adding that important party feel. The driders falling onto my head were disgusting and horrible, though. The battle was very impressive, I must say I enjoyed it immensely, and its aftermath wasn't bad either. Less so when I started chapter 3 and found that Deekin will not be summoned to me. It's good to have my redhead hunk back, but I miss the little guy.

All in all, I'm glad I finally got to HotU, because compared to the original campaign it's a storyteller's masterpiece. However, if I have to read one more description of a "stunningly beautiful female drow" I swear I'll throw up. You can practically see the writer's dribble drip on the keyboard, it's only a mercy we didn't get detailed descriptions of breasts and butts.

Oh, and the Bebilith? I had to cheat in god mode and get out of the room. Made pancakes though, came out delicious.

Endugu · Post by **Endugu** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:19 am

Congrats, QuenGalad!

I actually agree with much of what you wrote.

To me, even worse than the plot in chapter 1 is the whole concept of Undermountain: "a gigantic dungeon with random rooms, traps and random monsters. But none of it has to make any sense because a mad wizard did it!.Um, yeah...I guess it's very "classical" D&D design, but I can't say it's something I like to see in a game.

Weird that you couldn't summon Deekin in chapter 3! I'ts been a while, but I'm pretty sure I had him summoned to me, last time I took him with me through the game. Maybe a bug or he died before the end of chapter 2 or something...?

Yeah, the "stunningly beautiful female drow" are annoying, but the Valsharess and her armor surely takes the cake. Beats even Aribeth's armor design (in a "it's even more ridiculous" kind of way).
Speaking opf drow, I wasn't too fond of the whole "chaotic good drow rebels" idea on my first playthrough since it seems to be so incredibly cliché by now.

But nowadays I manage to overlook those flaws and concentrate on the parts of the game that I enjoy.

QuenGalad · Post by **QuenGalad** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:59 pm

That's usually the case, isn't it - overlooking the bad for fun's sake

All that Undermountain stuff is, I believe, a very old pen and paper d&d campaign. Not as good as a crpg, as you say. Deekin disappearing in ch3 is actually a common issue, asked about many times on this very forum, as I now know myself. Unfortunately there is not much that can be done - loading an earlier save didn't work.
The drow are often a target for dribble, although I can't imagine why they'd have more of this than surface elves, for example. And it would be better if we got some saucy descriptions of males, but there's none. Valen "would be considered handsome by many". So that means he isn't, really, just "would be"? Huh.

As for Valsharess's "armor" - more of a metal bathing suit - it's got those strange two things that run across her breasts and look like open cuts into her flesh. Thoroughly disturbing during the cutscenes, I must say, but maybe that was the point.

I think the whole module would make a much better story if we dispensed with the whole Undermountain stuff and started with the Seer summoning us to fight for her, because she's had a dream that we could defeat the Valsharess. She could put a geas on the player, thus tarnishing her crystalline character with some good old "the end justifies the means", and later on the Big Bad could have said that it was actually them that gave the Seer that dream, and not Ellistraee. Thus both drow ladies end up as unwitting pawns and it's much more fun

Still, that being said I really liked the siege of the city. There's something immensely satisfying about single-handedly defending a city's gates against an army of warriors and undead as your lover stands his ground nearby against three lords of hell. :laugh:

Endugu · Post by **Endugu** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:10 am

QuenGalad wrote: I think the whole module would make a much better story if we dispensed with the whole Undermountain stuff and started with the Seer summoning us to fight for her, because she's had a dream that we could defeat the Valsharess. She could put a geas on the player, thus tarnishing her crystalline character with some good old "the end justifies the means", and later on the Big Bad could have said that it was actually them that gave the Seer that dream, and not Ellistraee. Thus both drow ladies end up as unwitting pawns and it's much more fun

Huh, that actually sounds like it would make for a better gaming experience!

I wouldn't mind some kind of prelude to this, just to establish your character and their background.
Maybe one where they make their way down into the underdark.
Or how they got their hands on the reaper's relic...

LastDanceSaloon · Post by **LastDanceSaloon** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:41 am

This has also given me an excellent idea for a high level Ranger/Druid spell :mischief: entitled:

ARACHNOPHOBIA

This spell would cast two spiders, dependent on level for power of spider, and additionally cast a fear variant spell which would give an entire area a roll to see if they are arachnophobic.

All creatures (including allies) would then flee when within 10 feet of a spider until there are no more spiders.

Natural immunity for all Ranger/Druids, all Insects/Animals/Lizards/Plants, Undead, Demons, Clerics get a +4 bonus to save.

The Ranger or Druid could then direct where these spiders go on the battle field, either chasing mages to distraction or keeping the Ogre in the corner until you're ready for him, for example. Even non-demonic/Dragonic end bosses could be prone!