Unofficial Patch 8.8 released!
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Sergio1992
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Personally I like it !Wesp5 wrote:There is no real story-reason, but we thought it would be another chance to show off Jeanettes more emotional side compared to Therese. [...]
Jeanette is a Malk ... thus not everything she does HAS to make sense !
Adding some mystery like this only makes the character even more interesting.
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Sergio1992
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Sergio1992 wrote:Nah, I don't find it weird if I must be sincere...
There's nothing else in the game to back up that the local baronness (or sister of, depending on the point of view) would be weeping over a beat up Mercurio. It's weird enough that Mercurio doesn't mention it. He's the ghoul of Lacroix and when he got beat up and the local powerholder comes over to weep over him, publicly? That's off to say the least.
Wesp5 wrote:My intention was to show her emotional side. She would probably cry about any beat up guy, regardless of whether it was LaCroix's ghoul. Just remember how she talks to you on the telephone!
I get the intention, it's the execution that comes over awkward. Nevertheless, this does not dimish your awesome work on the Patch.
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Sergio1992
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Are you sure that he is Lacroix ghoul ? Maybe at first sight one could say so, but it seems strange to me that he offers to help you after you have betrayed his "master"GawainBS wrote:There's nothing else in the game to back up that the local baronness (or sister of, depending on the point of view) would be weeping over a beat up Mercurio. It's weird enough that Mercurio doesn't mention it. He's the ghoul of Lacroix and when he got beat up and the local powerholder comes over to weep over him, publicly? That's off to say the least.
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Sergio1992
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ehi Wesp5, I've got a question:Wesp5 wrote:My intention was to show her emotional side. She would probably cry about any beat up guy, regardless of whether it was LaCroix's ghoul. Just remember how she talks to you on the telephone!
is there a way to add subtitles for the "voices" heard by the Malkavian ? I'm not an English native and so sometimes it is hard to catch what the malkavian network is telling me.
Thank you for help
I have an idea, but it will take work to do it. They maybe hard to do, maybe not. My idea is this. You can have the basic patch, the plus patch, and a custom patch. You can have something about the custom patch and having played through the game at least once, if not twice, once with basic, the second with plus. This would allow a person some customization of the plus game, and aspects they may like to add that's not included in the vanilla plus patch. And there would be options if you ran the patch again, you can take some out.
"People should not be afraid of their governments, the government should be afraid of it's people." V from the movie V for Vendetta
Hm, you are right. I don't know if he could do something like this, but he does mention once, that he went to the prince to get blood...Sergio1992 wrote:Are you sure that he is Lacroix ghoul ? Maybe at first sight one could say so, but it seems strange to me that he offers you to help after you have betrayed his "master".
This would indeed be too much work for me and is not going to happen. Burgermeister does something similar when merging many major mods and he is going crazy over it!Sir Twist wrote:My idea is this. You can have the basic patch, the plus patch, and a custom patch. You can have something about the custom patch and having played through the game at least once, if not twice, once with basic, the second with plus.
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Sergio1992
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soothsayer
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I just finished my first playthrough of 8.8, and I have to say, the library quest was quite fun and refreshing. The Tzimisce creature at the end stretch made me jump in my chair, and the layout was simple but interesting. Who doesn't enjoy getting e-mails from Beckett? Nicely done, Wesp.
I have to agree with previous comments, however. The crying Jeanette is extremely immersion-breaking and awkwardly-placed. From a story perspective, it doesn't mesh with her character, Malkavian or not; unless we're dealing with a fishmalk (and Jeanette is decisively not a fishmalk), Malks should still have consistent and reasonable characterization. Her canon emotionality is classically WoD manipulation, and very well-controlled, much like VV's. Again and again, we see her transition quickly and carefully through different emotions then snap back to another when it stands to benefit her. There's really nothing to gain from crying oddly over a Camarilla ghoul as he crawls back to his hidey-hole, and nothing in the game to suggest these two have a relationship.
Mercurio also makes it a note to the player he goes out of his way to avoid interacting with Jeanette. True, he's a prince's ghoul, but according to the dialog, business strongly seems to be done with Therese. So I, too, assumed it was a bug. I suppose that's the problem: it feels very forced and inorganic, and seems to show its strings: as an attempt to push an unused animation back into play in some way. Is an unfortunate way to kick off the game.
With the utmost respects -- and since I've always enjoyed your prior work in this patch -- I felt I had to give my 2cents. Now, there is a lot of *possibility* here as to building backstory for these characters, but it currently lacks a sense of forethought. I see some brainstorming going on in the forum trying to make this work, but imo, the idea badly needs to be fleshed-out more in-game let it stand. Mercurio lying about being the prince's ghoul is a real long shot, since you refer to Mercurio as belonging to him in dialog with the prince, and he reacts as you'd expect. We'd need some hint of evidence here, and I don't believe there are any canonically. Is an AU possibility worth the work it would take to ground in the game? (I could certainly understand you might not want to get involved in doing full-fledged quest rewriting or adding too much -- that seems to be Clan Quest's domain.) As implemented, though, Jeanette's stiff weeping there doesn't make story sense. It sort of smacks of trivializating her and this story arc for the sake of an animation, if you get what I mean? I strongly recommend pulling it out if there are no future plans to ground it in the story.
That's not to say the animation has no place in the game, though. Could that animation come into play after "killing" the Therese personality, perhaps? Maybe if you initially refuse to go to Gallery Noir, or if you refuse to give her the pendant? If you are very attached to this animation standing as is, perhaps a version with and without might be an option? Just doing some thinking outloud.
Thank you for all your work on these patches, now and in prior versions. I wouldn't even consider running Bloodlines without them.
I have to agree with previous comments, however. The crying Jeanette is extremely immersion-breaking and awkwardly-placed. From a story perspective, it doesn't mesh with her character, Malkavian or not; unless we're dealing with a fishmalk (and Jeanette is decisively not a fishmalk), Malks should still have consistent and reasonable characterization. Her canon emotionality is classically WoD manipulation, and very well-controlled, much like VV's. Again and again, we see her transition quickly and carefully through different emotions then snap back to another when it stands to benefit her. There's really nothing to gain from crying oddly over a Camarilla ghoul as he crawls back to his hidey-hole, and nothing in the game to suggest these two have a relationship.
Mercurio also makes it a note to the player he goes out of his way to avoid interacting with Jeanette. True, he's a prince's ghoul, but according to the dialog, business strongly seems to be done with Therese. So I, too, assumed it was a bug. I suppose that's the problem: it feels very forced and inorganic, and seems to show its strings: as an attempt to push an unused animation back into play in some way. Is an unfortunate way to kick off the game.
With the utmost respects -- and since I've always enjoyed your prior work in this patch -- I felt I had to give my 2cents. Now, there is a lot of *possibility* here as to building backstory for these characters, but it currently lacks a sense of forethought. I see some brainstorming going on in the forum trying to make this work, but imo, the idea badly needs to be fleshed-out more in-game let it stand. Mercurio lying about being the prince's ghoul is a real long shot, since you refer to Mercurio as belonging to him in dialog with the prince, and he reacts as you'd expect. We'd need some hint of evidence here, and I don't believe there are any canonically. Is an AU possibility worth the work it would take to ground in the game? (I could certainly understand you might not want to get involved in doing full-fledged quest rewriting or adding too much -- that seems to be Clan Quest's domain.) As implemented, though, Jeanette's stiff weeping there doesn't make story sense. It sort of smacks of trivializating her and this story arc for the sake of an animation, if you get what I mean? I strongly recommend pulling it out if there are no future plans to ground it in the story.
That's not to say the animation has no place in the game, though. Could that animation come into play after "killing" the Therese personality, perhaps? Maybe if you initially refuse to go to Gallery Noir, or if you refuse to give her the pendant? If you are very attached to this animation standing as is, perhaps a version with and without might be an option? Just doing some thinking outloud.
Thank you for all your work on these patches, now and in prior versions. I wouldn't even consider running Bloodlines without them.
Maybe, but her crying to you in the diner seems very honest and emotional to me. I can imagine her crying just for seeing Mercurio vomiting blood on the sidewalk, even if she has no connection to him at all! Also it's not only about the animation, there is a sequence called jenny_cries called on loading the SM map. What else could this be? I'm open to suggestions! The bonus with using the first cutscene is that you can't talk to her afterwards...soothsayer wrote:Her canon emotionality is classically WoD manipulation, and very well-controlled, much like VV's.