One thing bugs me the most (gripe moan whine SPOIL SPOIL SPOIL!)

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Mon Aug 27, 2001 2:13 pm

Ok, there are several things that bug me about the way they made SOA/TOB so much easier than BG1:

1: Being able to rest so easily. In BG, every time you rest, you get ambushed.

2: Game stays paused while you shuffle all your equipment around. In BG, if you tried to change stuff around, the game would unpause. Hard, frustrating, but realistic and challenging. At least they don't let you change armor in battle like "Might and Magic" does!

But the thing I want to gripe about right now is this: In every dungeon you go into, right at the door you find a bunch of chests. You look inside one, and there's 100 sling bullets and some bolts of lightning. You look inside the next, and there's 100 arrows +1 and 50 throwing axes! Well how nice of the monsters of the dungeon to leave this ammo right by the door! Then you open the next chest, and there's 5 healing potions, 200 darts, and a scroll of pierce magic.

Well I just think it's cheesy. I try to go into a dungeon prepared, and then it's like they put all this stuff right there by the door. Sometimes there's even a handy vendor hanging out by the entrance to the dungeon, selling all kinds of stuff like its a dang carnival!!!

The ultimate example of this is the Disneyland of Dungeons (TM), Watcher's Keep. You even get convenient emergency exits on each floor!!

Anyway, I love the game, but sometimes it just seems a little silly. In Baldur's Gate #1, you never found sling bullets, darts, or crossbow bolts anywhere, just arrows. When you ran out, you had to go back to town and buy some more.

[ 08-28-2001: Message edited by: THE JAKER ]

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Mon Aug 27, 2001 3:18 pm

The main gripe I have about BG2 is you are way too powerful. No joke.

The main gripe I have about ToB is that every weapon has a +5. Upgrading Carsomyr? Please, the description for the +5 is that it may be the most powerful weapon on Faerun.

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Mon Aug 27, 2001 6:55 pm

.. most powerful weapon on Faerun

Obviously they've never seen the Staff of Ram +6, Ixil's Spike +6, Ravager +6, or Toothpick of lich slaying +7.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Aug 27, 2001 8:20 pm

Originally posted by Gaxx_Firkraag:
The main gripe I have about BG2 is you are way too powerful. No joke.

The main gripe I have about ToB is that every weapon has a +5. Upgrading Carsomyr? Please, the description for the +5 is that it may be the most powerful weapon on Faerun.

Well, but that's what most players want: haven't you been reading all the threads about "getting the best items"? I'm like you: I think making a level and finding a +1 or +2 goody should be cause for celebration, visiting the nearest tavern and drinks for everyone on the house.

Kevin Dorner · Post by **Kevin Dorner** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:02 am

My gripe is that due all the godly weapons and uberabilities that players get, the enemies become ridiculously overpowered or overimmunitied. I had a long rant about Balthazar regarding this. If you don't bash him down in one round and take some time in the battle, it will become apparent.

For example, Balthazar, Melissan and Demogorgon are immune to Time Stop. Of all the three, I can accept Demogorgon as he's a unique demonic prince, practically a god. Melissan is a very slim maybe. Balthazar, forget it.

If they are going to allow powerful spells and abilities, and then arbitrarily make enemies immune to them, it's probably best to not allow them at all as players will notice and be displeased by it. Plus, they then are unreliable. How many people actually used the 9th level spell Energy Drain? It level drains opponents 2 levels. I never did once. All the major enemies are immune to level drain arbitrarily, and those who aren't use their spells through scripting and never run out of them, so stripping two levels off will no take their spells away. Just an example...

rapier · Post by **rapier** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:10 am

Originally posted by Kevin Dorner:
For example, Balthazar, Melissan and Demogorgon are immune to Time Stop. Of all the three, I can accept Demogorgon as he's a unique demonic prince, practically a god. Melissan is a very slim maybe. Balthazar, forget it

Hmn, Mellisan WAS practically a demi-god, when you faced her...though Balthazar really is unbelievable...

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 11:38 am

I didn't know there was a +7 weapon in the game, let alone a toothpick...

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 1:57 pm

Hey, if you can't make them smart (mostly due to time constraints), just add some cheesy abilities instead.

I'm happy they didn't take the "Street Fighter II Boss" route all the way, though. I'm comfortable with facing enemies that have abilities I don't have because they have a higher level (Time Stopping Mages in SoA, for example). But when they do stuff I would never be allowed at that level, for no apparent reason other than that they would be too easy without it...

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 4:03 pm

Well they are limited by what the AI scripting engine can handle, and we know that players outdo Bioware in spell combos every time.

I definately agree on the resting issue. In BG, if you weren't ambushed, at least everything in the area respawned (cloakwood was great!), but in BG2, fight, rest, fight, rest, fight, rest.

I don't see a problem with the powerful items. You're supposed to be becoming a God, so what's wrong with shoving in the most powerful items ever seen along with the most powerful enemies?

By the way, you've all gone and given away the series end boss without any spoiler warnings.

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 5:05 pm

"Sometimes there's even a handy vendor hanging out by the entrance to the dungeon, selling all kinds of stuff like its a dang carnival!!!"

Durlag's Tower had a vendor outside selling supplies.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 5:31 pm

OK Quitch I changed the title...Happy?

Hey Pokey good point, but I think Durlag's tower was a lot like Watcher's Keep - more like a puzzle than a Dungeon. I think the best dungeons in the game as far as "realism" are: Ulcaster school dungeon in BG, and the Ruins of the Temple of Amaunator (except for the shadow dragon part and the Shade Lord being such a chump) in BGII.

The cheesiest dungeons are more like an amusement park - Durlag's, The Asylum, Watcher's Keep. Fun, but silly.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Aug 28, 2001 6:32 pm

Originally posted by Kevin Dorner:
If they are going to allow powerful spells and abilities, and then arbitrarily make enemies immune to them, it's probably best to not allow them at all as players will notice and be displeased by it. Plus, they then are unreliable. How many people actually used the 9th level spell Energy Drain? It level drains opponents 2 levels. I never did once. All the major enemies are immune to level drain arbitrarily, and those who aren't use their spells through scripting and never run out of them, so stripping two levels off will no take their spells away. Just an example...

I completely agree. One of the points that was impressed on my group when we were running "conflict events" as DMs in a big MMORPG was always to play it by the book. We had to take the time to rev up the same spells as the players, and if the players had defenses ready, we couldn't bypass 'em with a DM kill. (Though it was fun to use on one another behind the scenes, from time to time.) The players would feel cheated if they saw that the thing they were facing could ignore the physics of created reality.

KaaZe · Post by **KaaZe** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:19 pm

Anotherthing that has bothered me is. Why does your enemy never pick up these great weapons and use them. Like all the stuff it watchers keep. Are they really that stupid? Hey, look that this. There this shimmering sword over here... better leave it alone, cant see any reason to pick it up and use it on the next fool to come by.
In the guarded compound I dont remember ever being stunned by the fury.

Everone that have only played SoA/ToB should go pick up BG1. After that they will learn to cheerish everything with a +

Delos · Post by **Delos** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:32 am

Everone that have only played SoA/ToB should go pick up BG1. After that they will learn to cheerish everything with a +

I remember getting my hands on that +2 long sword (Varscona ?) from Greywolfe in BG1. It made me feel like the king of the world!

Arch_Angel · Post by **Arch_Angel** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:45 am

I know, words cannot explain the first time I managed to get my grubby little hands on a +1 longsword in BG. I used to feel like I could take down anything when I had my party all equiped with +1 weapons

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:09 am

I never realized there was a longsword +2 until I finished it, so I cherished my longsword +1 like it was family. In fact, I don't think I had any +2 weapons when playing through the game, except Spiders Bane (2H sword). Also, I learned to cheish Plate mail! (No + or enchantments, not even full plate, just plate mail)

eznay · Post by **eznay** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 5:36 am

What i actually miss is the long drawn battles... where you can actually have real time combat... instead of having to autopause every few seconds to read what actually happened on the events log...

Battles in SoA/ToB needs to be too well ochestrated for my liking. Almost every situation becomes a race against time to make your opponent vulnerable to some ridiculously highpowered weapon or spell and then hoping that your enemies fail their saving throw before they make you fail yours.

Well, this is just a fan of low powered campaigns speaking.

Man, it gets super 'unreal' when you could go on for days without even the slightest interaction with the common folk. Somehow, it fails to sustain my interest for long. Not making a lot of sense in the above statement but anyway...

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:54 am

Originally posted by Arch_Angel:
I used to feel like I could take down anything when I had my party all equiped with +1 weapons

Well, you could!

Originally posted by Aegis:
I learned to cheish Plate mail! (No + or enchantments, not even full plate, just plate mail)

First thing I did when I had money was buy Splint Mails for all my tanks! 100 gold for AC 4; great deal in BG1.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 9:45 am

Originally posted by KaaZe:
Why does your enemy never pick up these great weapons and use them.

good point. at least the bad guys in TOB have lots of potions. The first time I played through the oasis the guy with The Answerer almost killed mazzy (my front line tank) with it, but she took him.

I remember in Baldur's Gate I would be casting "bless" before every battle. Now in SOA TOB I don't even bother casting any buffs at all, I just walk on in.

Taegn · Post by **Taegn** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:37 am

Yeah I know. All the enemies kill you in 2 hits and cast time stop and finger of death your party members with seemingly no saving throw granted and blow you to pieces. Or simply sneeze and kill your PC. So you have to run around and get all these +7 items and even then you only last 30 seconds longer in the fight, because by the time you find these weapons the enemies are immune to them.

I'm about to say "**** ToB", cheat my way through it just to experience the plot, and then stick to playing BG and SoA differently.