3 + 2 = 5?

Mhr'djynn · Post by **Mhr'djynn** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 2:59 am

i am wondering: if i have a character equipped with a +3 bow, using +2 arrows, does this count cumulatively as a +5 weapon?
thanks!

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 3:04 am

If I have this right..no it will count as a +2.

I believe the +3 will be took off before the roll ...then the +2 will be added to the roll.

THAC0 10 - the +3 = 7 THAC0 then you roll and get 19 damage and add +2 to get 21 damage.

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The Defender of Truth

[This message has been edited by Weasel (edited 01-26-2001).]

geh4th · Post by **geh4th** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 3:52 am

With missiles, I always thought that THAC0 adjustments were cumulative (+3 bow and +2 arrows equal a +5 to hit) but DAMAGE would only be modified by the arrow (+2 in this case). The bow might have it's own special modification to damage as well.

This combo would not hit creatures requiring +3 weapons to hit, because what's hitting them (the arrows) are only +2.

Am I close here? My rules knowledge is still rusty.

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"If you prefer, you could say EXPERT treasure hunter!"
--Gandalf the Grey, the Hobbit

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 4:03 am

@Geh4th...You could be right about the THAC0...this was just my guess.

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The Defender of Truth

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 4:12 am

geh4th; it works as you explained it.

Black Hand · Post by **Black Hand** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 4:17 am

All effects of arrows and bows are cumulative. THAC0 bonuses, damage bonuses and elemental damage (like Gesen bow with acid arrows) are all added together.

But the effectiveness of the weapon is always determined by the arrows/bullets of the weapon.

Missile weapons that can be used without ammunition like that bow+3 and the sling+5 also fire +3/+5 missiles (when used without ammo).

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 4:34 am

Alright...so ...

With a THAC0 of 10..I would - the +3 and +2 to end up with a THAC0 of 5..right

Then I would add +2 to my damage roll.

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The Defender of Truth

Black Hand · Post by **Black Hand** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 4:41 am

Yes, that should be correct if your bow contributes +2 to damage. Arrows+2 do not have any damage bonus in BG2, right?

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 4:51 am

From looking at the walk thru..

Arrow+2
Damage...1D6
THAC0..+2

I just never noticed (till now) that arrows add to THAC0.

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The Defender of Truth

Mhr'djynn · Post by **Mhr'djynn** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 5:30 am

thanks very much, y'all. i do have the +3 bow equipped that makes its own arrows, however i thought that maybe i could improve the thac0 by loading +2 arrows. this all make more sense now.

geh4th · Post by **geh4th** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:14 am

Have you compared the Thac0 on your character's info screen with the bow equpped by itself versus the bow equpped with +2 arrows?

I'd be interested to know if you see a different Thac0 listed.

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"If you prefer, you could say EXPERT treasure hunter!"
--Gandalf the Grey, the Hobbit

Black Hand · Post by **Black Hand** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:16 am

Yes, there will be different THAC0 values. But you need to equip normal arrows to compare the stats.

geh4th · Post by **geh4th** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:21 am

For the bow that makes it's own arrows, are they considered +3 arrows for thac0? I.e. a cumulative total of +6 (sounds wrong to me...)

It seems that the "phantom" arrows would be counted as +3 for what they can hit, but do not add to thac0. "Real" +2 arrows, on the other hand, would NOT be able to hit +3 required creatures, but should add their additional +2 to thac0 (If I am thinking right, it is 6:00am here....been a long night....)

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"If you prefer, you could say EXPERT treasure hunter!"
--Gandalf the Grey, the Hobbit

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:29 am

Alright....Nalia at level 17

No equipment 1 + in short bow

THAC0 is 15

add the Tansheron's bow

THAC0 is 10

add the Arrows+2

THAC0 is 8

Or instead of using Arrow+2 use Arrows of Piercing and

THAC0 is 6

Now add the Bracers of Archery and..

THAC0 is 4

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The Defender of Truth

[This message has been edited by Weasel (edited 01-26-2001).]

Black Hand · Post by **Black Hand** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:32 am

Originally posted by geh4th:
For the bow that makes it's own arrows, are they considered +3 arrows for thac0? I.e. a cumulative total of +6 (sounds wrong to me...)

It seems that the "phantom" arrows would be counted as +3 for what they can hit, but do not add to thac0. "Real" +2 arrows, on the other hand, would NOT be able to hit +3 required creatures, but should add their additional +2 to thac0 (If I am thinking right, it is 6:00am here....been a long night....)

I should have been more precisely. The arrows count as +3 weapons, but have no further bonuses. They can hit monsters that can be hit with less than +4, but count as normal arrows in every other respect.

geh4th · Post by **geh4th** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 7:29 am

Understood. One further clarification:

I think the Balor is an example of a creature requiring a +3 weapon to hit. Assuming that is so, you can definitely hit it with this bow firing the "created" arrows. WHAT IF you are using "real" +2 arrows to enhance your thac0? Are you then considered to be firing a +2 weapon, and negating your ability to even hit the monster in the first place? Or does the bow's bonus guarantee that the +3 requirement is met?

(Betcha never thought of this one. I have too much free time on my hands, it seems...)

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"If you prefer, you could say EXPERT treasure hunter!"
--Gandalf the Grey, the Hobbit

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 7:34 am

A monster that requires +3 to hit can only be hit with a missile if the missil that hits the creature is a +3 missil - wheter you've fired the missile with a normal launcher or a +5 launcher has no effect besides the THAC0. Therefore IIRC the only arrow that can hit a +3 monster is Arrows of Pircing" - (IIRC they are +4) - and there are no bolts or pellets/stones (there is a sling that dosen't need pellets - but I can't remember what it creates)

And there are 2 bows that don't need arrows - and IIRC(again

are considere +3(or better)

Mhr'djynn · Post by **Mhr'djynn** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 7:53 am

geh4th, you took the words right out of my mouth. i went back to playing and realized that i still didn't know if i had a +5 weapon or not. long night...

anyway, yes it seems to work out like this, and for the purposes of hitting a +3 monster, i should stick with the arrows that the bow creates rather than loading +2 arrows, right? the exception being, arrows of piercing, which would overall give me a thac0 bonus of +7, but only the arrow bonus is what is counted for the purposes of being able to hit this being at all. do i have that right?

(btw: mazzy, level 14, base thac0 7, five stars in short bow, equipped with various stuff, tansheron's bow, and arrows of piercing has a thac0 of -6.

yowza.)

[This message has been edited by Mhr'djynn (edited 01-26-2001).]

geh4th · Post by **geh4th** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 7:53 am

what does "IIRC" mean? Rusty on the chat lingo.....

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"If you prefer, you could say EXPERT treasure hunter!"
--Gandalf the Grey, the Hobbit

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 8:13 am

If I recall correctly = IIRC