True, but Gandalf came back from battling the Balrog different. His attributes would be changed, so maybe +1 to all stats?
edit: 200th reply!
The Lord of the Rings...
Haven't really though about it. I was thinking lately, that since magic is different in the LoTR universe, that maybe just have a set number of spells per day like
3 magic missiles
2 chain lightnings
ummm, any other spells Gandalf used?
3 magic missiles
2 chain lightnings
ummm, any other spells Gandalf used?
The waves came crashing in like blindness.
So I just stood and listened.
So I just stood and listened.
The magic fire he used to ignite the wood on Carahdras (spelling...), the spell to write "gandalf is here" in the air for all to read, right after that (though it could be the same spell...) The light from his staff in Moria (in the movie it's from a crystal, but not in the books), the spell to shield himself from the balrog's attacks. Can't think of any more right now...maybe later.ummm, any other spells Gandalf used?
@ wolf: How come u got PD?
Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes right down to the bone
So pyrotechnics, Light, arganazers scorcher perhaps...
Shield of the Archons or maybe Stormshell,
and also other buffs to get him through those battles unscathed...
Prot from evil definately. emotion hope/courage resist/remove fear...
Shield of the Archons or maybe Stormshell,
and also other buffs to get him through those battles unscathed...
Prot from evil definately. emotion hope/courage resist/remove fear...
The waves came crashing in like blindness.
So I just stood and listened.
So I just stood and listened.
@ Mr. Waesel
How come I got pd?? I put the pd there, coz it's short for another nickname I have, nothing special.
On Carahdras Gandalf said that by casting the spell, he could as well have written "Gandalf is here".
@ Obsidian
I guess there is not much to add to your list, maybe some of the emotion hope/courage resist/remove fear should be put in his Ring of fire and not as part of his own spells?
How come I got pd?? I put the pd there, coz it's short for another nickname I have, nothing special.
On Carahdras Gandalf said that by casting the spell, he could as well have written "Gandalf is here".
@ Obsidian
I guess there is not much to add to your list, maybe some of the emotion hope/courage resist/remove fear should be put in his Ring of fire and not as part of his own spells?
- Fantasy, a man's best friend -
eh eh eh. Lots of good here, lots of confusion. Fortunately Nygma got here in time to clear alot of it up 
Obsidian: Which ring are you talking about? There are alot of them kicking around
Sauron has the One Ring, which he created to rule them all and expand his power. The three elven rings are in the hands of Gandalf (Narya - fire), Galadriel (Nenya - water) and Cirdain the Shipright in the Grey Havens (forget the name - air). Also there are the seven Dwarven Rings, all either destroyed by dragon's fire, or taken by The Enemy. Nine rings for mortal men doomed to die, all used to subvert great human kings to his power, and all of which are now his ringwraiths. There are/were lots of lesser rings of magic, which augmented a single aspect.
As for Gandalf and his lack of spells, remember the goal of the mission was secrecy, and everytime he used his magic he exposed himself to Sauron. It was like giving him a roadmap. When it didn't matter, and Gandalf was defending Minas Tirith I believe he did some serious spellcasting against the ringwraiths when they came to call.
Items and Enchantment: I would hesitate to call any of the items greater then +3, due to the fact magic was so rare in Middle Earth.
Sting: Elven Shortsword, I don't remember if it was from Gondolin, but as it was found in the company of those two notable long swords it's possible. This was a weak sword compared to those two, but still surpassing anything done in that day. +2, with a detect evil 3/day as someone said. Closest you can come to representing it's ability in BG terms.
Glamdring and Orcrist have been covered extensively, no need to go into them further. +3 and detect evil 3/day again.
Anduril has also been covered, +3 again.
All of the above I would give an addition +1 against evil creatures.
Daggers of Westernesse: the short swords/long daggers given to the hobbits after the Barrowdowns, these were enchanted weapons from Numenor. Light enchantment, though a bonus against evil. +1/+2
Gandalf also possessed a stave of power, all the wizards had one to assist in there spellcasting, and when Saruman was deposed, Gandalf destroyed his staff, indicating perhaps a connection between wizards ability or station and the stave. I'd give it a +2, and maybe some sort of ability to assist casting or resistance.
Gimli had a Strong axe, but merely a dwarven axe. Probably a +1 for dwarven worksmanship, but a nonmagical +1.
Legolas had two long daggers/short swords that were prob similiar. +1 due to craftsmanship, though nonmagical. The bow was a long bow, not a composite likely, and maybe a +2.
Boromir was the son of a prince and prob had either an enchanted weapon, or a high quality dwarve or elven make weapon. Either way, +1.
Armor:
Gimli wore a shirt of chain, b/c remember, dwarves make light of burdens Prob another one of high dwarven quality, but not necessarily magical. Chain +1
Gandalf I seem to remember wore some kind of chain somewhere in one of the books, but as I can't verify, I'll leave it off. Easily a robe like the Robe of Vecna, enchanted for AC bonuses and whatever he would think is helpful.
Legolas: Elven chainmail of some sort. +1 or +2, make your choice.
Frodo: Mithril....ahhh, how I've longed to see something of that in a D&D game Easily Chainmail +5. Most likely some sort of bonuses against every weapon type.
Aragorn: Studded Leather +1 at the beginning, and then once he goes to war he switches to something that slips my mind at the moment...I obviously need to reread the series lol.
All the hobbits prob outfit themselves in some sort of hide or leather traveling clothes in the beginning...
Unfortunately, none of this translates well to the ToB, or even the later parts of SoA b/c of the abundance of Magic there. Everything would need a serious boost to fit in and make a party of chars viable there.
Eh, there were a bunch of things I felt I could contribute on, but some slip my mind. I'm sure I'll remember more
Hell of a first post...
Melesse
Edited for one or two small mistakes....
Obsidian: Which ring are you talking about? There are alot of them kicking around
Sauron has the One Ring, which he created to rule them all and expand his power. The three elven rings are in the hands of Gandalf (Narya - fire), Galadriel (Nenya - water) and Cirdain the Shipright in the Grey Havens (forget the name - air). Also there are the seven Dwarven Rings, all either destroyed by dragon's fire, or taken by The Enemy. Nine rings for mortal men doomed to die, all used to subvert great human kings to his power, and all of which are now his ringwraiths. There are/were lots of lesser rings of magic, which augmented a single aspect.
As for Gandalf and his lack of spells, remember the goal of the mission was secrecy, and everytime he used his magic he exposed himself to Sauron. It was like giving him a roadmap. When it didn't matter, and Gandalf was defending Minas Tirith I believe he did some serious spellcasting against the ringwraiths when they came to call.
Items and Enchantment: I would hesitate to call any of the items greater then +3, due to the fact magic was so rare in Middle Earth.
Sting: Elven Shortsword, I don't remember if it was from Gondolin, but as it was found in the company of those two notable long swords it's possible. This was a weak sword compared to those two, but still surpassing anything done in that day. +2, with a detect evil 3/day as someone said. Closest you can come to representing it's ability in BG terms.
Glamdring and Orcrist have been covered extensively, no need to go into them further. +3 and detect evil 3/day again.
Anduril has also been covered, +3 again.
All of the above I would give an addition +1 against evil creatures.
Daggers of Westernesse: the short swords/long daggers given to the hobbits after the Barrowdowns, these were enchanted weapons from Numenor. Light enchantment, though a bonus against evil. +1/+2
Gandalf also possessed a stave of power, all the wizards had one to assist in there spellcasting, and when Saruman was deposed, Gandalf destroyed his staff, indicating perhaps a connection between wizards ability or station and the stave. I'd give it a +2, and maybe some sort of ability to assist casting or resistance.
Gimli had a Strong axe, but merely a dwarven axe. Probably a +1 for dwarven worksmanship, but a nonmagical +1.
Legolas had two long daggers/short swords that were prob similiar. +1 due to craftsmanship, though nonmagical. The bow was a long bow, not a composite likely, and maybe a +2.
Boromir was the son of a prince and prob had either an enchanted weapon, or a high quality dwarve or elven make weapon. Either way, +1.
Armor:
Gimli wore a shirt of chain, b/c remember, dwarves make light of burdens
Prob another one of high dwarven quality, but not necessarily magical. Chain +1Gandalf I seem to remember wore some kind of chain somewhere in one of the books, but as I can't verify, I'll leave it off. Easily a robe like the Robe of Vecna, enchanted for AC bonuses and whatever he would think is helpful.
Legolas: Elven chainmail of some sort. +1 or +2, make your choice.
Frodo: Mithril....ahhh, how I've longed to see something of that in a D&D game
Easily Chainmail +5. Most likely some sort of bonuses against every weapon type. Aragorn: Studded Leather +1 at the beginning, and then once he goes to war he switches to something that slips my mind at the moment...I obviously need to reread the series lol.
All the hobbits prob outfit themselves in some sort of hide or leather traveling clothes in the beginning...
Unfortunately, none of this translates well to the ToB, or even the later parts of SoA b/c of the abundance of Magic there. Everything would need a serious boost to fit in and make a party of chars viable there.
Eh, there were a bunch of things I felt I could contribute on, but some slip my mind. I'm sure I'll remember more
Hell of a first post...
Melesse
Edited for one or two small mistakes....
Why are those who are on the ground
Afraid of falling down?
Afraid of falling down?
Ahh, I did remember something....for those who don't know what Gondolin is:
Gondolin was the strongest of the Elven Cities on Middle Earth. It lay in a valley surrounded by impassable mountains, and in it was girded by walls so high and thick, their like has never been seen before or since. There's a terrific painting on it somewhere...thought I had it on my computer, but I shouldn't post it anyways for fear of Copyrights....
But anyways, it was here that the core of the resistance to Melkor remained for years while outside of their valley the world was degenerating, and Melkor was gradually taking everything. In the end, this was the last stronghold facing him, and the people of Gondolin, believing in their craft felt invulnerable.
Melkor came for them. The one balrog that killed Gandalf and caused a dwarf and Elf to quake with horror? Melkor sent hundreds of them against the city, along with elder wyrms and siege towers and thousands and thousands of orcs. Dark mechanical monstrosities he had created, and monsters he had made from mixing races. The people of Gondolin saw and despaired, but fought anyways to cover the retreat of the women and children. No Balrogs had been killed to that day, but they died by the scores then. Eventually they breached the walls, and then laid waste to the most glorious city this side of Valinor, and pursued the fleeing hordes across the world. Coincidentally, it is in this flight that an Elven Lord kills a Balrog in one on one combat, but is slain in the process.
One of the darkest moments in the history of Middle Earth
Melesse
Gondolin was the strongest of the Elven Cities on Middle Earth. It lay in a valley surrounded by impassable mountains, and in it was girded by walls so high and thick, their like has never been seen before or since. There's a terrific painting on it somewhere...thought I had it on my computer, but I shouldn't post it anyways for fear of Copyrights....
But anyways, it was here that the core of the resistance to Melkor remained for years while outside of their valley the world was degenerating, and Melkor was gradually taking everything. In the end, this was the last stronghold facing him, and the people of Gondolin, believing in their craft felt invulnerable.
Melkor came for them. The one balrog that killed Gandalf and caused a dwarf and Elf to quake with horror? Melkor sent hundreds of them against the city, along with elder wyrms and siege towers and thousands and thousands of orcs. Dark mechanical monstrosities he had created, and monsters he had made from mixing races. The people of Gondolin saw and despaired, but fought anyways to cover the retreat of the women and children. No Balrogs had been killed to that day, but they died by the scores then. Eventually they breached the walls, and then laid waste to the most glorious city this side of Valinor, and pursued the fleeing hordes across the world. Coincidentally, it is in this flight that an Elven Lord kills a Balrog in one on one combat, but is slain in the process.
One of the darkest moments in the history of Middle Earth
Melesse
Why are those who are on the ground
Afraid of falling down?
Afraid of falling down?
On the Vala and Maia
Melkor (or Morgoth) was a Vala that broke from the others and tried to bend the Earth to his will. the Maia, Sauron, was his first lieutenant. Against him was the other Vala, and their Maia, and the Firstborn (elves). After defeating him the first time and chaining him, they released him after a time and he convinced them of his redemption. Again he made war against the firstborn and Dwarves and Men again, but he did it across the sea from Vala, and the Vala ignored it. This time when they finally got together and disposed of him, they did it for good, but Sauron remained in Middle Earth. He ended up on Numenor, where the Humans made their home, and whispering in the King's ear, he convinced him to make war on the Gods, and when they saw this they sank the Island of Numenor (Westernesse) and destroyed most of the race of Kings (High men).
The Vala then removed Valinor from the planet, and the only way to get to it is on the ships of Elves.
Sauron returned to Middle Earth, and befriended the people there, most notably the smiths of Eregion (Hollin). He helped them create the magic rings, increasing in power to the Elven rings, and using their knowledge he created the One Ring. He put most of his power into the ring, and increased it somewhat.
After the first war of the ring, the Vala sent the Istari to maintain the balance and watch for the Return of Sauron. There were five: Saruman the white, Gandalf the Grey, Alatar the Blue, Pallando the Purple, and Radagast the Brown. While only Saruman fell under Sauron's sway, the rest never did anything about him either way, and could be considered fallen wizards.
Eh, i think I had a point with this, but I forget,....
Melesse
Melkor (or Morgoth) was a Vala that broke from the others and tried to bend the Earth to his will. the Maia, Sauron, was his first lieutenant. Against him was the other Vala, and their Maia, and the Firstborn (elves). After defeating him the first time and chaining him, they released him after a time and he convinced them of his redemption. Again he made war against the firstborn and Dwarves and Men again, but he did it across the sea from Vala, and the Vala ignored it. This time when they finally got together and disposed of him, they did it for good, but Sauron remained in Middle Earth. He ended up on Numenor, where the Humans made their home, and whispering in the King's ear, he convinced him to make war on the Gods, and when they saw this they sank the Island of Numenor (Westernesse) and destroyed most of the race of Kings (High men).
The Vala then removed Valinor from the planet, and the only way to get to it is on the ships of Elves.
Sauron returned to Middle Earth, and befriended the people there, most notably the smiths of Eregion (Hollin). He helped them create the magic rings, increasing in power to the Elven rings, and using their knowledge he created the One Ring. He put most of his power into the ring, and increased it somewhat.
After the first war of the ring, the Vala sent the Istari to maintain the balance and watch for the Return of Sauron. There were five: Saruman the white, Gandalf the Grey, Alatar the Blue, Pallando the Purple, and Radagast the Brown. While only Saruman fell under Sauron's sway, the rest never did anything about him either way, and could be considered fallen wizards.
Eh, i think I had a point with this, but I forget,....
Melesse
Why are those who are on the ground
Afraid of falling down?
Afraid of falling down?
*ahem* well, ummm, wow.
Welcome to the Forums I suppose... and, well, I'm afriad. Whenever someone forgets more than I know I get intimidated. I think we will just let you ramble on for a few more pages
Plz keep going, I can vouch there are several people reading this intently.
So what happened to the other wizards that did **** all?
Welcome to the Forums I suppose... and, well, I'm afriad. Whenever someone forgets more than I know I get intimidated. I think we will just let you ramble on for a few more pages
Plz keep going, I can vouch there are several people reading this intently.
So what happened to the other wizards that did **** all?
The waves came crashing in like blindness.
So I just stood and listened.
So I just stood and listened.
You just happen to hit on my original love. lol. Thanks, and glad to be here, I've touched on a thread here and there, but it was this one that actually incited me to post.
As a side note, the story of Gondolin can be found in the Book of Lost Tales II. Def required reading for LotR fans
Eh, I dunno, nothing comes immediately to mind. I'm reading about Gladden fields in the Book of Unfinished Tales right now, where the Ring of Power (One Ring) betrayed Isildur and fell of his hand and exposed him to the Orcs, but haven't gotten far into it.
Eh, a little about Moria.
Moria (Dwarrowdelf, Khazad Dum - Referred to as both in the movie) was the Dwarves greatest home, and the sole source of True Silver (Mithril). There were at least 25 (possibly 28? I don't remember...) Halls, each tremendously long and supported by Stone Columns left in the native stone. Notable places include The Endless Stair, Durin's Tomb, Dimrill Dale, and the Gates of Moria.
The Endless Stair ran from the lowest depths of Moria to the very tip, where there was a tower out of the top of the mountain. The name escapes me now (see, I really don't know that much ), but that's where Gandalf and the Balrog finished their battle. I wish I had the books here at school so I could get the names out of them.
Durin's Tomb is shown in the Movie of course, just the place where the last stand was made against the Orcs, as well as the resting place of Durin's Axe...an artifact of power similiar to any of the Gondolin Swords or Anduril.
Dimrill Dale is where the founder of Moria looked into the water and saw a semi circle of stars over his head, which became the device of Moria. In the movie you can see it on the Doors of Moria in Hollin. The Dimrill stair also starts here, as this is the back door of Dwarrowdelf and where the party exits and descends.
The Gates of Moria were where the Dwarf kingdom ended and Eregion (Hollin) started. The gates were engraved with a form of silver that only showed in the moonlight. They were inscribed with the devices of Moria (The crown and seven stars) and Hollin, and the words "Speak Friend, and Enter" Eregion is where the Elven smiths that crafted the Rings of Power worked and lived. At one point there was great friendship between elves and dwarves.
In singleminded pursuit of more Mithril, the dwarves delved deeper and farther then ever before, and in the deep they awakened the Balrog, called by the dwarves Durin's Bane, and by the Elves Feanor's Bane. The Balrog, along with the tribes of Orcs and Goblins, sweeped Moria, and eventually drove the Dwarves out or destroyed them, and the looted the richest city of the Dwarves.
After Erebor (The Lonely Mountain) is retaken, the Dwarves sent an expedition under Balin attempted to reclaim Moria. After several years of communiques, all contact was lost until Gimli, with the Company, discovered the Book of Mazarbul in Durin's Tomb which detailed the years of the expedition.
All done with Moria for now I think
As a side note, I found the name for the other Ring (of Air) is Vilya, although the Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm) notes that it is possessed by Elrond. I had thought Cirdain possessed it due to a passage at the end of book VI that said something about a ring Cirdain was wearing, but as I can't verify that, I'll give til I can find the evidence
If there're any questions you have about ME, the above link to the Encyclopedia is a good one, or ask me and I can tell you what I know
Melesse
As a side note, the story of Gondolin can be found in the Book of Lost Tales II. Def required reading for LotR fans
Eh, I dunno, nothing comes immediately to mind. I'm reading about Gladden fields in the Book of Unfinished Tales right now, where the Ring of Power (One Ring) betrayed Isildur and fell of his hand and exposed him to the Orcs, but haven't gotten far into it.
Eh, a little about Moria.
Moria (Dwarrowdelf, Khazad Dum - Referred to as both in the movie) was the Dwarves greatest home, and the sole source of True Silver (Mithril). There were at least 25 (possibly 28? I don't remember...) Halls, each tremendously long and supported by Stone Columns left in the native stone. Notable places include The Endless Stair, Durin's Tomb, Dimrill Dale, and the Gates of Moria.
The Endless Stair ran from the lowest depths of Moria to the very tip, where there was a tower out of the top of the mountain. The name escapes me now (see, I really don't know that much
), but that's where Gandalf and the Balrog finished their battle. I wish I had the books here at school so I could get the names out of them. Durin's Tomb is shown in the Movie of course, just the place where the last stand was made against the Orcs, as well as the resting place of Durin's Axe...an artifact of power similiar to any of the Gondolin Swords or Anduril.
Dimrill Dale is where the founder of Moria looked into the water and saw a semi circle of stars over his head, which became the device of Moria. In the movie you can see it on the Doors of Moria in Hollin. The Dimrill stair also starts here, as this is the back door of Dwarrowdelf and where the party exits and descends.
The Gates of Moria were where the Dwarf kingdom ended and Eregion (Hollin) started. The gates were engraved with a form of silver that only showed in the moonlight. They were inscribed with the devices of Moria (The crown and seven stars) and Hollin, and the words "Speak Friend, and Enter" Eregion is where the Elven smiths that crafted the Rings of Power worked and lived. At one point there was great friendship between elves and dwarves.
In singleminded pursuit of more Mithril, the dwarves delved deeper and farther then ever before, and in the deep they awakened the Balrog, called by the dwarves Durin's Bane, and by the Elves Feanor's Bane. The Balrog, along with the tribes of Orcs and Goblins, sweeped Moria, and eventually drove the Dwarves out or destroyed them, and the looted the richest city of the Dwarves.
After Erebor (The Lonely Mountain) is retaken, the Dwarves sent an expedition under Balin attempted to reclaim Moria. After several years of communiques, all contact was lost until Gimli, with the Company, discovered the Book of Mazarbul in Durin's Tomb which detailed the years of the expedition.
All done with Moria for now I think
As a side note, I found the name for the other Ring (of Air) is Vilya, although the Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm) notes that it is possessed by Elrond. I had thought Cirdain possessed it due to a passage at the end of book VI that said something about a ring Cirdain was wearing, but as I can't verify that, I'll give til I can find the evidence
If there're any questions you have about ME, the above link to the Encyclopedia is a good one, or ask me and I can tell you what I know
Melesse
Why are those who are on the ground
Afraid of falling down?
Afraid of falling down?
Well, Cirdan gives the ring of fire to Gandalf and says that he will need it more, coz the people around him will get a morale boost by the influence of the ring (sort of) and as Cirdan won't leave his boats, Gandalf can put it to better use. So that's why I said, the things like protection from fear, confusion, etc, could be put in the ring instead of the cloak.
- Fantasy, a man's best friend -
That would make sense, for Cirdan to give him the ring, as there were three Elven Rings, and three Elven Havens.
Cirdan of the Grey Havens, Elrond of Rivendell, and Galadriel of LothLorien.
Of course, I always thought it was Cirdan and Galadriel that had the rings. Where is the info that it was Cirdan that gave Gandalf the ring? I'm not disputing it I've just never seen that and am curious.
Melesse
Cirdan of the Grey Havens, Elrond of Rivendell, and Galadriel of LothLorien.
Of course, I always thought it was Cirdan and Galadriel that had the rings. Where is the info that it was Cirdan that gave Gandalf the ring? I'm not disputing it
I've just never seen that and am curious.Melesse
Why are those who are on the ground
Afraid of falling down?
Afraid of falling down?
Some Artwork about Gondolin (My fav is in the middle)
http://www.nightrunner.com/cgi-bin/sear ... &l=12&pn=0
Moria Artwork:
http://www.nightrunner.com/cgi-bin/sear ... &l=12&pn=0
Just to give you an idea what I've been talking about
These are from Nightrunner, ps.
Melesse
http://www.nightrunner.com/cgi-bin/sear ... &l=12&pn=0
Moria Artwork:
http://www.nightrunner.com/cgi-bin/sear ... &l=12&pn=0
Just to give you an idea what I've been talking about
These are from Nightrunner, ps.
Melesse
Why are those who are on the ground
Afraid of falling down?
Afraid of falling down?
Gotcha, gracias senor. I must go back, I'm getting forgetful in my old age
This just gives me another opportunity to read my favorite books in the world. I love how Tolkien actually created a world with myths and systems and histories. God...
Melesse
This just gives me another opportunity to read my favorite books in the world. I love how Tolkien actually created a world with myths and systems and histories. God...
Melesse
Why are those who are on the ground
Afraid of falling down?
Afraid of falling down?
Gil-Galad wielded Aiglos alongside Elendil with Narsil in the Last Alliance of Elves and Men right? If so, he died alongside Elendil, before Isildur snatched up the shards of Narsil and killed Sauron's physical form. It slips my mind if that was him though....
Melesse
Melesse
Why are those who are on the ground
Afraid of falling down?
Afraid of falling down?