When D&D went downhill...

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 1:54 pm

I started out playing AD&D and thought it was a good RPG. I was 9. Then I started playing Star Frontiers, Champions, Top Secret and a slew of others.

AD&D's single greatest deficiency is its skills system (or lack therof). Under the AD&D system, if you take two fighters of equal level and white out their names and other biographical information (race, gender, etc.), they're basically the same character. If you look at the character sheet for Sturm Brightblade, Caramon Majere and Derek Crownguard, they're nearly identical. This of course is not how real life, nor any good RPG is set up.

When AD&D2 came out, they tried to address the skill problem by introducing the proficiency system in an attempt to make each character more individual. My problem with proficiencies was that if you had a proficiency, you could perform those tasks at a professional level and if you didn't, you were totally incompetent. Take swimming for example; if you had the swimming proficiency, your character was Mark Spitz (who won six gold medals in the Munich Olympic Games), if he didn't, the character would sink like a brick.

My friends and I tried to address this by letting players select "not-quite" proficiencies, where characters could perform tasks at an amateur or hobby level. Still, the system left much to be desired. At the extreme opposite end of the skill spectrum was a game like Top Secret which had a skill for everything. The level of detail was astounding, but the problem was that the game was cumbersome. It took two hours to roll up a character. I appreciate minutia, but for heaven's sake, let's play.

The happy medium between simplicity and detail that we found was in the Palladium RPG system, first with Robotech, then Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Rifts. I think the Palladium system leaves enough room for each character to be an individual, yet it's easy enough to understand and comprehend that you don't need a Cray Supercomputer to calculate "to hit" and skill rolls (like you did with Top Secret; I'm not joking! They even had a modifier for wind speed and wind direction!).

When D&D3 came out, I was excited to see that they've addressed the skills issue and that many of the game's other hang-ups have been eliminated (like level caps for non-humans, multi-classing restrictions and racial requirements for certain classes). Unfortunately, I don't think that D&D3 brought a lot of new players to the game; I think that the people buying D&D3 are old AD&D players who have wanted a fresh product for some time.

Also, for those interested in setting up an internet game, how about getting a bunch of people with NetMeeting and video conferencing cameras? Sure, you'd need a broadband connection, but at least you'd get to play.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:08 pm

Originally posted by HighLordDave

Also, for those interested in setting up an internet game, how about getting a bunch of people with NetMeeting and video conferencing cameras? Sure, you'd need a broadband connection, but at least you'd get to play.

Firstly, I'm skint, I couldn't afford it but nevermind. Would you be up for it Dave?

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:10 pm

Sure, I'm in. Don't ask me to DM, but I'm more than willing to play.

Role-playing or roll-playing; it's all good for me.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:17 pm

Originally posted by HighLordDave
Sure, I'm in. Don't ask me to DM, but I'm more than willing to play.

Role-playing or roll-playing; it's all good for me.

Hell yeah, thats four of us in, but who will be the DM then? The Stranger, are you up for it?

Rodo · Post by **Rodo** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:04 pm

I can do it, I have all the core books, some of the splat books and the psionics book. My time offset is GMT+1 (so Greenwich +2)

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:34 pm

I'm also Central American, which I believe makes me -6 GMT.

So, are we looking at playing by Forum (or email) or by mIRC. I'll be honest, I have no idea how to use mIRC...I've never done it. But if someone wants to fill me in, I think I could catch on.

I'm cool with playing by Forum, just as long as people make at least one post a day (that's per person, by the way). All the PBFs I've seen so far drag out ridiculously.

Rodo · Post by **Rodo** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 12:33 am

AOL Instant Messenger chat rooms are far better. And they have a built in dice roller.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 2:56 am

Like I sat, it's everyone's choice so decide...

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 8:24 am

I'm on Eastern Daylight Time (GMT -5:00).

I only have the D&D3 basic core books: PHB, DMG and MM.

I'm up for any of the options listed above: forum, chat room, video conference, audio-only conference for our bandwidth-challenged friends, etc.

Oh, and who's the DM? How are we rolling up characters? Points? Rolls? D&D Character Generator? What world are we playing in? Forgotten Realms? Greyhawk?

Just let me know when and where.

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 10:01 am

I move to strike video-conferencing or audio-only. Not everyone has the access to these things.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 11:50 am

The when and where would really determine if I can join, but I'd love to take part. RL's pretty hectic at the moment. I'm not too current on 3rd ed rules. I've read about them but have yet to play with them.

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 12:26 pm

That's cool Rail. This game is really so we can get used to the rules. I haven't played much with them either.

The "when" is also very determining for me. If we play by session, I'll prolly only be able to do it once a week. Twice would be pushing it, unless you've all got the same schedule as me, which, of course, is doubtful.

Right now I've got classes every morning of the week-day, as well as Monday nights. Plus I work a part-time job without a set schedule. I could schedule off a half-day a week, however.

So, I could play Tuesdays, Thursdays, or Friday afternoons (1-4) or nights. Or either Saturday mornings, afternoons (done by 4 PM), or nights. Or maybe Sundays from 1-4 in the afternoon.

And that's all going by my time-zone. This summer will be much more relaxed, though, as I won't be taking summer classes. Just recording music in my lil' studio and delivering pizzas. Hopefully we can work something out.

****
GMT times I could play:

Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays: 7 PM to 10 PM. I could play to midnight, but I'd have to schedule off for work that night.

Wednesdays: 7 PM to Midnight

Saturdays: Either from 4PM to 10 PM, or 10 PM to later.

Sundays: 7 PM to 10 PM

When Summer rolls around, which is only about a month away, my schedule will prolly be more flexible. Also, I'd prefer to play either Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or Sunday. I'll prolly wanna hang with my pals and gal-pals on Friday and Saturday.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:08 pm

Well my schedule is GMT, so here goes:

Monday day and night out completely (school and work)
Tuesday day out, possibly night
Wednesday day out, maybe night if I can find time
Thursday have a half day from 9am - 1pm. Can do this
Friday same as Thursday
Saturday Possibly fit that in if I blast my school work out
Sunday same as Saturday.

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:55 pm

Well, I believe 9 AM to 1 PM is 3 AM to 7 AM my time. So that's a no...

I'm editing my other post to show what times I could play in GMT.

By the way, I'm assuming I add six hours to my time to find GMT if my timezone is -6 GMT.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 4:07 pm

Originally posted by average joe
Well, I believe 9 AM to 1 PM is 3 AM to 7 AM my time. So that's a no...

I'm editing my other post to show what times I could play in GMT.

By the way, I'm assuming I add six hours to my time to find GMT if my timezone is -6 GMT.

No, you got me wrong, I can do stuff AFTER that.

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 1:34 pm

Alright, those of you interested in participating in this, post the times you can play. Go by GMT. If you're using Windows, you can click on the clock on the taskbar, and it will tell you how far behind or ahead of GMT you are.

Also, I'll prolly buy the Dungeon Master's Guide in the next few weeks, and if no one has stepped to DM, I'll do it. If someone has, we could all alternate who DM's. Or something like that.

Rodo · Post by **Rodo** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 1:56 pm

I'll go first:

GMT + 2 (so I was a little off before)

I can do Monday and Saturday afternoons (3-6 PM)

I have all the core books, access to all the splatbooks, Manual of the Planes, Psionics Handbook, BoEM 1, Monsters of Faerun

I could DM, but I'd also like to play seeing as how I almost never played (just DMed).

The Stranger · Post by **The Stranger** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 4:39 pm

I'll GM, at least to start. I have already bought a low end computer from e-bay to use as a server. Don't expect it to be too big on graphics, but we sure can role play on it. Let me get it running and I will let you all know. Just drop me an e-mail (It's in my profile) so I can get back with you!

average joe · Post by **average joe** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 9:23 pm

@Rodo,

Is that 3-6 your time or GMT?

@Stranger,

I'm not for sure what you mean by having purchased a computer to use as a server. A server for what? I thought we were just going to play through a chat service or a on a forum?

Rodo · Post by **Rodo** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 5:36 am

My time, naturally

And, again, I HIGHLY suggest using AIM (AOL Instant Messanger) for this, it's really quite easy to use and comfortable.