New way to level up

Varger · Post by **Varger** » Sat May 18, 2002 8:51 am

While I am having the time of my life playing this game, I do have a few issues with the character advancement system. If my magic user does not want to wear heavy or medium armor or carry a spear he has no way of raising his endurance, and thus raising his health. If I want to gain the maximum x5 bonus to any attribute when I level up, I would have to resort to tediously using a skill I care nothing about. I have found a way around these limitations without seriously breaking the rules of the game.

Lets say I plan on raising my strength, intelligence and endurance on my next level up. Instead of planning what miscellaneous skills I need to raise, I just use the skills I want to use. I use my blunt weapon to raise my strength. I am wearing medium armor, which will raise my endurance. Finally, I will be casting spells in the conjuration school of magic and enchanting a few items to raise my intelligence. All these skills are either major or minor ones so they all count toward leveling up.

After a few days of adventuring I have gone up in the following skills by the listed amount.

Blunt Weapon 3
Medium Armor 3
Conjuration 3
Enchant 1

This gives me the 10 skill levels I need to level up, but it does not give me the x5 attribute bonus I want. Normally, I would have to put on heavy armor, buy a long sword and a lock pick. The wonder around waiting for my skills in heavy armor, long blade and security go up enough to give me the x5 bonus. I find this very boring and tedious. What I really want to do is pretend I did that without having to spend three hours doing it.

The workaround is to use the console codes to achieve the same thing. Just before I gain the tenth level in a major or minor skill, I add levels to the miscellaneous skills I would need to raise to get the x5 bonus. I will add seven levels of long blade, seven levels to heavy armor, and six levels to security. Now I can just pretend I spent hours and hours raising these skills.

The problem with this is that when I do level up, the game does not give me the x5 bonus I want. I will get a x2 bonus for all three attributes. This is not a problem because I can use console codes to raise my attributes as well. The key is to raise the attributes before you level up, just like you did the skills. Only raise them the difference between the x5 and what you will get. If you are not sure what bonus you will get, save your game before you level up. Then level up and check the bonus. Reload the saved game and raise the skills and attributes you want to.

The reason you need to raise the attributes before you level up is because of the way the game handles heath. Every time you level up, you gain endurance/10 (round nearest) to your health. Lets say your endurance was 42 before you level up. You would earn 4 health points when you do level up if you don’t add any points to your endurance. If you add a point to your endurance and you have a x3 bonus, your new endurance would be 47 after you level up. This is the value the game uses to determine how many health points you get. In this case, it would be 47/10 = 4.7 round up to 5. Magicka, fatigue and encumbrance don’t have this problem. They change as soon as you change any attribute they are based on. Now back to my character. Since I will be getting a x2 bonus to the three attributes I want to raise, I need to add three to each just before I level up.

To raise any skill or attribute, you start by bringing up the console window by hitting the tilda (~) key. Then type in the skill or attribute you want to change using this format:

player->Set[Attribute or Skill] [Value]

To set your willpower to 65, type:

player->SetWillpower 65

To set your long blade skill to 35, type:

player->SetLongBlade 35

Note where the capital letters are. You close the console window by hitting the tilda key again. Now level up and you should now have the skills and attributes would have had if you had spent all that extra time wondering around raising skills you don’t use.

Forty Two · Post by **Forty Two** » Sat May 18, 2002 9:07 am

Dude thats called cheating

FYI the maximum multiplyer for a major is 5x, a minor is 3x and if you want to level up skills you dont use buy training in that area.. It will only count against your leveling up 10 if its a major or minor.

Sirius_Sam · Post by **Sirius_Sam** » Sat May 18, 2002 12:21 pm

Well...ummm...it is kinda cheesy, but whatever works for you

Based on your scenario of how you're going to build your skills/stats then you're just trading one sort of tedium for another anyway, so you might as well just raise the attributes and leave the skills alone. At least then you would actually have to raise them through use or training and you wouldn't have "cheated" the skills anyway.

Why don't you just play the game and whenever you level, just make sure you pump 5 into END (or whatever stat you want) after the level to simulate a x5 bonus on the attribute alone. Then you'll gain (kinda) legitimate HP on the next level without becoming so darn powerful through cheating the skills up. A lot of the mods I've seen actually make it harder and slower to level because the game can become too easy just by playing it normally, so be careful with the cheats and shortcuts to levelling or you'll become bored with the game because it's too easy.

I'm playing an Imperial Assassin ATM and he's about as far away from a power-character as you could get. Still, he's level 18 and looks forward to every new trinket and buff he finds...really makes playing a lot of fun. Tedious as it is, I've gotten his END to 100 throught he use of (all misc and all x5 bonuses) Med/Hvy armor and spear, so it is possible and doesn't take THAT long to accomplish

42, where are you getting your numbers on the stat mods ? If I use a misc. skill 10-11 times, I always get the x5 stat mod (except through training...training only gives me a xX bonus if it's in a major/minor skill). I've never actually gotten three x5 bonuses at once, but I have had two x5 modifiers at almost every level-up (from major and misc skills, for sure).

S_S

Forty Two · Post by **Forty Two** » Sat May 18, 2002 12:33 pm

I don`t know i trained in a major 5 times and i got a 5x multiplyer, i trained in a minor and could only get a 3x modifier..

Sirius_Sam · Post by **Sirius_Sam** » Sat May 18, 2002 12:39 pm

Hmm...

Well, I know I can TRAIN a minor skill to x5, but I've never really paid too much attention to anything except the END increase (far too handy to have extra hit points at higher levels than to not have them), so I ALWAYS work my misc. END skills

I'll try to do some testing, but I fail to see why you couldn't level a minor to x5 if you can a misc.

S_S

Varger · Post by **Varger** » Sat May 18, 2002 2:12 pm

There are power gamers out there who have to extract every advantage the system has to offer. Some players find it hard to level up until they have x5 bonuses for three attributes. They will play for a while and end up getting frustrated. They may feel that the game is punishing their playing style, or may quit playing because the game is no longer fun for them. I am giving them a way to bend the rules to reach their goal. In the end they tell their friends how much fun they had playing the game rather than how the system sucked.

We all play games to have fun. Does it matter how each of us goes about having fun? If there is no victim, there is no crime.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Sat May 18, 2002 3:28 pm

I feel like my own victim when I cheat

But that's life, you're right everyone has their own way of doing things that makes them happy.

I'm testing out a difficulty mod which also includes a slow leveling thing right now for someone BTW. It's funny...i've been level 1 forever. But when I do finally level up I will be getting a x5 in Strength, Endurance and Agility, and I personally don't find it very hard to achieve with the system the way it is.

Forty Two · Post by **Forty Two** » Sat May 18, 2002 3:34 pm

I`ve been toying with the idea of a difficulty MOD, as its sooooooo easy i can **** a Golden Saint with 3 or 4 swipes and thats with a crapy bound Longsword..

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat May 18, 2002 3:37 pm

If I want to gain the maximum x5 bonus to any attribute when I level up, I would have to resort to tediously using a skill I care nothing about.

That's right. It's called making choices.

Personally, I'm happy about having to decide whether I want a character with enormous reserves of fatigue, or one who is a casting fiend, or one who has fantastic health, etc.

It's easy enough to get around. Go into the TES Construction Kit, and create an item which fortifies all stats and skills by 50 or so: instant God-of-Vvardenfell, if you want to do it.

Forty Two · Post by **Forty Two** » Sat May 18, 2002 3:41 pm

Yeah but thats really cheating, not pretending to while not thinking he is..

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Sat May 18, 2002 3:59 pm

I think what this comes down to is the characteristic that each skill effects. Varger does have a point that the only way you can get lots of endurance is to wear some (a full suit isn't necessary, just a piece will help) medium or heavy armor, or fight with a spear. Now is this really the only way one builds endurance? I think you could build endurance by treking with a heavy pack full of oranges and grapefruits or by swinging a heavy axe or hammer all day just as well.

Another poster a while back had a similar point about developing magicka points - what if you want to be a potent caster but you are not interested in Conjuration, Enchanting, Alchemy, or Security? Now I like all those fields, but what if you are interested in Destruction, Illusion, and Mysticism instead, should you have half as much magicka as the Enchanting Conjurer? It might not really seem fair.

Forty Two · Post by **Forty Two** » Sat May 18, 2002 4:04 pm

Whats your sig all about anyway?

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat May 18, 2002 4:08 pm

Originally posted by THE JAKER
Another poster a while back had a similar point about developing magicka points - what if you want to be a potent caster but you are not interested in Conjuration, Enchanting, Alchemy, or Security? Now I like all those fields, but what if you are interested in Destruction, Illusion, and Mysticism instead, should you have half as much magicka as the Enchanting Conjurer? It might not really seem fair.

True, but that's the way the game was designed: not to be fair, but to be, according to the developers' lights, balanced. Which isn't to say it matches up to the way anybody else would do it, and that's why the construction set is included.

I'd really have no problem if someone wanted to rebalance the attributes governing certain skills. But if I did want to change them, it wouldn't simply be because I wanted to max out health. That's driving game design by a desire for god characters--no offense meant to anyone--where the game design should be driven instead by issues of balance. Personally (and this is just my POV), I wouldn't want a player to be able to max out health unless they gave up a ton of other things, than that's a potentially very unbalancing stat. But each to their own: once you have the game, you can do with it as you will.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Sat May 18, 2002 4:34 pm

Good point Fable, we are talking about hit points here, and if you want hit points you've got to give up something...

also I think some races have higher starting endurance - play an orc I believe, born under the sign of the lady, and you will start with a huge endurance...ah, but your magicka will not be as developed as my Breton born under the mage.

@42: my signature right now is something that the Kajit in the game say sometimes, like if you are doing good in the thieves guild Sugar Lips the kajit will say stuff like "may you walk on warm sands.." and "warm day to you, friend". Similarly if you are doing good in the mage guild that kajit that does the alchemy quests there will say stuff like that or "good friend, this is an honor". And anyway, when I first got the game I thought the cat people were stupid, but the voices that they have are just so cool that I got to really like them. I like how they have cat like characteristics so to them, wishing someone a warm day is the greatest compliment. I really like cats, so thats where I got it.

Varger · Post by **Varger** » Sun May 19, 2002 7:34 am

Originally posted by THE JAKER
Another poster a while back had a similar point about developing magicka points - what if you want to be a potent caster but you are not interested in Conjuration, Enchanting, Alchemy, or Security? Now I like all those fields, but what if you are interested in Destruction, Illusion, and Mysticism instead, should you have half as much magicka as the Enchanting Conjurer? It might not really seem fair.

That was me! I think the system does a great job of forcing you to make choices> Great now my keyboard won"t let me use the shift key> if you want a high health you have to give up something else> what i said about the magic fields was that if you only wanted to play a guy who can cast willpower based spells< and you dont want to use any of the intelligence based skills< your magicka will never go up> same problem> the system does not allow the player to play what he wants> sorry about the typing> darn java