World Cup 2002

Demis · Post by **Demis** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:00 am

For the first time during this WC FIFA admitted that there've been a couple of false calls in WC and that there is a problem with the linesmen.

, they also said that there is a matter of changing some regulations after the end of WC. However i can't find the article in english for more details.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:10 am

Originally posted by Bruce Lee
Again Roberto Carlos shows what a great player he is, supreme really. Rivaldo should really stop his acting, it really looks stupid.

I agree on both

I and really feel sorry for Seaman, he was very unhappy after the game

posted by Tom
I think that they have been desperatly unlucky with a number of genuine goals disallowed etc.

I do think Italy has been genuinely unlucky, but I also agree with Andy Strawn's post above that they have been playing too tough with too much jersey pulling and late tacklings and there has been a lot of diving. I also I would much rather have seen Italy remain, but I do not think Korea won unfairly.

posted by Demis
From all the games in WC, i lost this one from falling asleep

Good you get to see it later, it is absolutely worth seeing even if the last 20 minutes are quite boring. The Brazilian goals are beauties!

I agree with you on Ronaldinhio not harming a fly, I think the red card was ref mistake, totally unfair.

posted by Xandax
Either way it was poor goaltending from Seaman - such a shot must not go in. He was not terrible far out of the goal - he just didn't jump after the ball.

You think so? The Swedish commentators, especially the expert commentator Martin Dahlim (former player in the national team), said so but they didn't explain why. I know nothing about goal tending, what should Seaman have done better? The shot looked pretty difficult to me.

And no, I don't think Ronaldinhio intented a shot on goal. As Raistlin posts, we will miss this wonderful player n the semi-final

at99 · Post by **at99** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:23 am

England lost to a better side. I wanted england to win but Brazil just outplayed them with attacking game. They looked superior even with 10 men

england just did not attack brazil. I think these defense tactics eg 1-0 up then defend is garbage. england are a better team than this if they play old style and play Attack.

Get rid of SWEN and anyone defensive like swedes and italians tactics.

I think in this WC the defense tactics of teams have been shown up. the sides that are left have tried to attack eg korea

the gap btw the 2 sides is large

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:24 am

Well, I'm gutted. Fair play to Brazil though, they deserved to win. My only problem is with Rivaldo, again he shows the form that got him the fine, and as I've said all along, he shouldn't be still playing after the stunt he pulled in the group stages. How many times did he fall down clutching one part or another of his body? Ridiculous. He's a good player, and I had a lot of respect for him coming into this WC but now I can't stand him. Also, I really don't believe that Ronaldinho did anything that deserved a red card, although I didn't see any "stamping" incident, just Danny Mills taking a bit of a dive after he got an arm across the face.

It was a great game though. Michael Owen's goal was brilliant, though perfectly set up by Lucio's bad touch

D) and he played the goalie perfectly. Rivaldo's goal was great, to finish off a great move. Ronaldinho's goal was either very flukey or a brilliant piece of skill, I don't know which

Well, now I'll just sulk for a while, and mutter about how we should have done so much better with the extra man, how Paul Scholes did nothing for the entire match, how as always our performance crashed and burned in the second half and how if we'd have played like we did against Argentina we would've won. Then I'll pick myself up, and support Brazil for the rest of the tournament - if they play their beautiful football they will win for sure.

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:31 am

Originally posted by C Elegans

You think so? The Swedish commentators, especially the expert commentator Martin Dahlim (former player in the national team), said so but they didn't explain why. I know nothing about goal tending, what should Seaman have done better? The shot looked pretty difficult to me.

And no, I don't think Ronaldinhio intented a shot on goal. As Raistlin posts, we will miss this wonderful player n the semi-final

Well mostly - it looked like he completely didn't know where he stood - I don't know if he though the shot would go past or something - might have been.
But a shot like that comes relatively slow compared to a "regular" shot at goal, the ball almost floated into the goal, and as far as I could see the only "tricky part" of the shot, was that it didn't break as much as it should have, if it indeed was a pass.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:36 am

Originally posted by Kameleon
Well, I'm gutted. Fair play to Brazil though, they deserved to win. My only problem is with Rivaldo, again he shows the form that got him the fine, and as I've said all along, he shouldn't be still playing after the stunt he pulled in the group stages. How many times did he fall down clutching one part or another of his body? Ridiculous. He's a good player, and I had a lot of respect for him coming into this WC but now I can't stand him. Also, I really don't believe that Ronaldinho did anything that deserved a red card, although I didn't see any "stamping" incident, just Danny Mills taking a bit of a dive after he got an arm across the face.

I totally agree with you about Rivaldo. Had lots of admiration of this footballer. Not anymore

As for Ronaldinho, well he was just unlucky. He deserved a yellow, but a red card. Just a tad too extreme.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:58 am

Rivaldo was diving all over the place. I think a FIFA inquistion should occur about that. Ronaldhino did not deserve to be sent off. He just went in to challenge the ball but stood on Mills's ankle, a yellow card at worse.

While I'm upset at the loss, it's not that bad, we are still the best in the world at rugby and our tour to Argentina this summer should be... entertaining... (watch the rucks!

) I would have liked England to go on further, they were playing good football earlier on but they sat back and let Brazil come to them. @at99, you can't blame Eriksson, he put on forwards! He wanted them to go up the pitch but Brazil forced them back with continual attacks, they simply played better football...

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:06 am

Originally posted by Nippy
Rivaldo was diving all over the place. I think a FIFA inquistion should occur about that. Ronaldhino did not deserve to be sent off. He just went in to challenge the ball but stood on Mills's ankle, a yellow card at worse.

I think everyone was diving all over the place in that match, Scholes and Beckham would have to be investigated as well

I think he sent him off for an elbow...seems like nonesense whatever and it completely ruined the game

we are still the best in the world at rugby and our tour to Argentina this summer should be... entertaining... (watch the rucks! )

@CE, so Dhalin is doing commentating now, i guess it happens to all old players... *so how many others remember Martin Dahlin*

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:15 am

@Andy Strawn:
For me it's an old story already, but answers are needed:

1)here you're right. That's how Trap plays...
Capello would be our best option as a trainer, IMO.

2)That's true only for that match. Mostly you're right about
skirt pulling, which annoyed me as well, the rest were normal
faults that may happen when you miss the ball.
You have to understand that the team was very nervous.
You may think that our reasons were wrong, but still, the whole
Italy and so the players thought there would have been a referee
against us, the penalty (for skirt pulling) strenghtened the fear
Add the fear of other cancelled goals, the huge writings "AGAIN 1966",
"Welcome to Italy's Tomb" and so on, they were nervous (I was..)

3)Untrue. You were not here. Nobody expected to win.
Not after our first matches, and the elimination of Argentina
and France.
As for the things you said, I don't know about it, but surely
immediatly after I wanted to discharge my rage as well

4)I am repetitive, one mistake may happen, four are a bit too much.
Knowning the three precedents, they shouldn't have had the courage
to do it again

5)Again I repeat, Gaucci is a fiery type. Ahn had offensive
words, after the match the bitterness augmented and Gaucci
spoke. I think he'll change his mind, yet the fact remains that Ahn
was irritating, here the conflict between teams are mostly
between dirigents, players are extremely polite between them.
He's been offensive with players like Maldini who have given much
more at football history than he did, for now at least.
I add that somehow I've always had sympathy for Gaucci, at least
he's true and non-calculating, he's ready to lose money and a good
player for his beliefs (though wrong)
To your last words, it was Ahn who hurled insults.

I won't discuss your opinion about my people.
I like 'em, I like our little Boot, so who cares

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:15 am

Don't your roll your eyes at me Mr Sleep! You're a rugby player too, you know exactly what I mean!

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:19 am

Anyway:
FIFA declared again that Totti's espulsion was a mistake.
FIFA said (I translate from italian, maybe you can find the real
words) :
"Italy may think that its elimination it's due to the referees
and maybe some of their positions may be right"

A lot of "maybe" but after all we wanted only this.
A "moral" justice. Thanx to Tom who understanded this!

RAI seems really determined to ask to be refunded of the monetary
loss, though...
Don't know what to think about it..

Sorry for England, they're stronger than they showed today....
Go Brazil!
Always a great football!

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:20 am

Originally posted by Nippy
Don't your roll your eyes at me Mr Sleep! You're a rugby player too, you know exactly what I mean!

I was rolling my eyes at England being the best in the world...didn't france beat them?

I don't mean they aren't good, just best in the world is a little of a leap

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:29 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

I was rolling my eyes at England being the best in the world...didn't france beat them? I don't mean they aren't good, just best in the world is a little of a leap

Have France beaten Australia, South Africa and New Zealand in the past year, convincingly? No! England rule, and will kill anyone!

See Clive Woodward's young guns fight off the puma's...

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:45 am

Originally posted by Nippy
Have France beaten Australia, South Africa and New Zealand in the past year, convincingly? No! England rule, and will kill anyone!

See Clive Woodward's young guns fight off the puma's...

But they did win the WC, Euro Champs and Confederation Cup. And they were unbeaten for a considerably long time.

As for the incident with Australia, they drew even after we played extremely dirty.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:46 am

Originally posted by Nippy
Have France beaten Australia, South Africa and New Zealand in the past year, convincingly? No! England rule, and will kill anyone!

I don't recall them playing those sides over the last year anyway? Maybe i am wrong though

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 5:55 am

disappointing performance all said. The best team on the day won, this is the nature of the competition. I am still pleased with how England have performed in the cup, they show promise as a young side.

Re Ronaldinho, he was sent off for stamping - not an elbow. He stamped on Mills' foot, but IMO deserved nothing more than a yellow card for potentially dangerous play, Mills made the most of it.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:03 am

Re: Rugby, The All Blacks rule!

USA-Germany halftime:
0-1, Ballack scored for Germany. USA started best, but Germany has slowly taken over the game.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:10 am

Originally posted by Yshania
Re Ronaldinho, he was sent off for stamping - not an elbow. He stamped on Mills' foot, but IMO deserved nothing more than a yellow card for potentially dangerous play, Mills made the most of it.

I just can't see it myself

My mum said the guy looked far too nice to do that kind of thing... and his stunned reaction was proof he didn't commit a heinous act

Mills certainly made the most of it, which is his job although it did ruin the game...if one clamps down on diving i think the both sides would have been sent off

Silur · Post by **Silur** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:13 am

So @Littiz, just so I understand this: If Totti goes and says that this and that player in Juventus sucks rotten eggs, then that's just normal Italian football, but when Ahn says that the Italian defense is old and slow thats offensive? I'm afraid my opinion of Gaucci is that he has dual standards and he's a biggot abusing his authority.

I agree with Fifa that the offside rulings were incorrect. I really hope they do something about the quality of their linemen. However, Blatter has not said anything conclusive in terms of Totti. He said it perhaps was rather harsh but does not directly criticise Moreno. The press release is available on BBC's website. However, one must realise that above all, Blatter is a politician. He's willing to give all kinds of consessions to Italy if it makes them feel better, but if it's going to cost Fifa money, they're going to be playing a different tune.

Unfortunately, all this bickering has really made my opinion of the Italian team drop. Before the WC I believed Italy to be a great football nation that played beautiful football - a mix between the organised european style of football with the clever, technical style mostly found in Brazilian football. Now, however, they're in my view a bunch of whining sore loosers. I have probably been biased by the excessive (running on ludicrous) reactions, such as those by Gaucci and the Italian TV company RAI. I am sad.

When it comes to diving, I'm still convinced Totti dived. He is however an angel compared to Rivaldo today. The ref should have nailed him to the goal post so he could have done his jesus impersonation.. I guess faking for a penalty is worse than playing "death of a dandy" all over the rest of the field.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:14 am

Ronaldinho isn't that type of player. Just unlucky in the end.