what to choose? fighter or paladin?

pEnTaGrAm · Post by **pEnTaGrAm** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:28 pm

I haven't bought the game yet but I'm counting the seconds left to do it. To occupy my time I check out a lot of sites that are NwN related and I have a question (that bugged me even when I played BG2): Besides the whole "can't lose LG alignement or levelling up stops" isn't the paladin basically equal in every way to a fighter but with all those extra spells?? Yeah, I guess I'm pretty much a Newbie, so I ask to all of you who know their way around the game to advise me in what class is the best to choose! Thanks for your time.

Magus · Post by **Magus** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:51 pm

I won't go into the differences in 2nd Ed, but in 3rd Ed. fighters get an extra bonus feat every 2 levels. Paladins don't. On the other hand, paladins get low-level spells, turn undead, are immune to fear and disease, and get to apply their CHR bonus to all saving throws. It's all in the manual, so I suggest you read it as soon as you get it.

pEnTaGrAm · Post by **pEnTaGrAm** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 7:57 pm

could you be more specific? As I said, I'm still a newbie so I don't really understand all this game-talk. And another thing I ask is to help me decide which one is better, after seeing all the pros and cons.... Sorry for bothering you all.

Magus · Post by **Magus** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:25 pm

Game talk? Well you said you played BG2...but okay.

Let's see:
2nd Edtion + 3rd Edition: Two different sets of Dungeons & Dragons rules. BG2 used 2nd Ed. NWN uses 3rd Ed.

Feats: Special skills that you acquire when you go up in level. Sort of like the extra class abilities in Throne of Bhaal.
CHR: Charisma.

As for which one is better...depends what you want. Do you want lots of cool special combat abilities? Then pick a fighter. If you like casting spells and having good saving throws, then pick a paladin. But don't forget that in 3rd. Ed. multi-classing is much easier to do, and most characters will end up mult-classing in at least 2 different classes. So you could have a Fighter/Paladin, if you want. If I'm still not making sense, I HIGHLY suggest reading the manual before you ask any more questions. Picky details are no good without a solid base knowledge.

Magus · Post by **Magus** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:31 pm

Oh, btw if you want, I can e-mail you the online manual. It's a PDF, so you'd need Adobe Acrobat Reader to open it.

pEnTaGrAm · Post by **pEnTaGrAm** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:54 pm

yeah I played BG, but I was pretty much a cheater that just wanted to have a little fun with my brother's game so I never got the hang of the whole D&D rules stuff, just the basics to get me trough. You're a great help and I thank you for that...but if it's not puching you're patience would you enlighten me in the benefits of multiclassing (because of all that I read I didn't understand half, you see, I'm not really aquainted with this D&D stuff), and if so, what should I multiclass my fighter with to make it a very good char?

pEnTaGrAm · Post by **pEnTaGrAm** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:08 pm

I also await other people's comments and opinions...make this thread interesting!

archerknight · Post by **archerknight** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:25 pm

If you would like to keep it simple I'd go with a regular fighter. You can alway choose to switch to a paladin later. In 3rd edition rules whenever you level up you can choose to do it in another class(with some limitations).

What I usually do with a new game is play the first time as a fighter. It gives you a chance to get a feel for the game and the controls. Then when you get more comfortable you can either start taking levels with a new class or start a new game.

Magus · Post by **Magus** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 9:29 pm

Well, with multi-classing you get to enjoy the benefits of both classes, though there's usually some restrictions. Take a sorcerer/paladin, for example. A sorcerer needs high charisma to be good at casting spells. And a paladin gets bonuses to his saving throws (if you don't know what these are, they're kind of complicated, I really don't want to go into them) for high charisma. Thus blending them gives you a good spellcaster that also has really nice saving throws. Also, paladins can wear armor, while sorcerers can't. A sorcerer/paladin can thus wear armor, but risks spell failure when casting while wearing armor. This would be a restriction. The only real down-side to multi-classing is that it you won't be as good in each class as somebody who specializes just in that class. For a sorceror, that would mean you probably wouldn't be able to cast some of the most powerful spells in the game. So it's a trade-off.

BTW, do you want me to e-mail the manual or not?

Calogrenant · Post by **Calogrenant** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:43 pm

I completed the game with a Human Fighter with 4 (should`ve been only 3) levels of Paladin, let me explain you why I chose this:

Humans get an extra feat (As previously posted, special ability) at level one, as well as some extra skill points (Skills under 3rd edition are more useful than in 2nd edition rules).
As Archerknight said, under these rules, each time you acquire a new level, you choose which class you want to go up with. If you check the manual, you`ll see the benefits belonging to each class at every level.
Paladins between levels 1 and 3 get really interesting powers, like turn undead, inmunity to disease and fear, cure disease, lay on hands, etc... and the newest, most important, already mentioned by Magus: the fact that your charisma modifier is applied to all your saving throws.
If you read this far, you also already know fighters are the class with more feats. It means they get them more frequently than any other class.
The game so long has a bug, so you will not need to worry about altering your alignment in the law/chaos part. You`ll do need to worry about the good/evil side, if you perform evil actions your points (thats how its measured) in the "good" side will start to go down, and if down enough you`ll get a warning stating that continuing that path will make you no longer able to advance in levels as a paladin.
A level in rogue wouldn`t been bad either, since rogues are the only ones who can disarm certain traps.
Simply put, all characters can use the "disarm traps" skill, but only rogues can get rid of the most difficult ones.

The rest is simple. I started with a level 1 human fighter, then rose 4 levels as a paladin (again, should`ve been only 3, there`s no benefit acquired at level 4 for paladins) and then kept gaining levels as a fighter. I won`t tell you what the max level is, for obviously non spoiling purposes, but can tell you my character ended up being: Fighter(a lot)/Paladin 4, where "a lot" means the maximun possible level

. Check the tables for both classes, those were the benefits I played with.

Got to admit it, I`m a powergamer who likes to play melee classes, also love the paladin way, and hate the rogue one, so tried to choose a nice combination of both roleplaying and efficiency.

Although my best recomendation is, quoting Magus again: Read the manual.

Get in touch with the new rules, check how the new system works, lots of things have changed. See if those classes and abilities you liked still work like they formerly did. Also, there are new classes with a lot of fun and power potential, you should take a look at the sorcerer for instance. Also don`t get panicked, this new system is way easier to learn and understand than the previous one, no need to learn greek or latin to understand how that THAC0 thing worked

Have fun!

slowcar · Post by **slowcar** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:36 am

if you don't want to read the manual:
take a look at http://www.wizards.com/dnd
there is a section 'learn to play'

why multiclassing ist a good thing:

you can have the special benefits of a class,
for example evasion as a rogue 2.
(if you get your reflex-save you take no damage instead of half)

in NWN there are not that many feats, you won't stand back if you are a thisx/thatx/fighter compared to a pure one.

if you want to fight:
take 2 levels of barbarian, 3 levels of rogue and the rest fighter, you get maximum benefits.

as a caster stay pure, i don't know if this is right in NWN, i think the loss of casterlevels don't hurt that much as in 'real' DnD

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:46 am

Yeah, as a wizard/sorcerer, stay pure. Dunno about druids or clerics, but as an arcane spellcaster do NOT multiclass. You'll lose lvl 9 spells and you're gonna bang your head against the wall for the sorry benefits you get instead.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:05 am

I still dont have the game but I have played 3rd PnP a bit. There if you multiclass a Paladin you can no longer advance as a Paladin... so like Calogrenant did you have to advance as a Paladin three or four levels in a row if you want that. From looking in the players handbook it seems that a maxed out Barbarian will be extremely strong given the fact how damage reduction works in 3rd edition. Is this true in the game? Also with the new rules that you cannot do a full attack if you move more than five feet ranged weapons become more powerful, but they are ofcourse limited by the visual range in computer games. However a fast character like a monk with the mobilty feat should be extremly hard to hit. Is this true in the game?
I have to say that 3rd edition rules are alot better than 2nd IMO and it will be interesting to see how they were implemented. They are easier to play with but must have been more difficult to implement so I guess some of them have been left out.

Biljac · Post by **Biljac** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:16 am

I currently have a 10 pal/8 fighter and he is pretty bad arse. took the paly to 10 to get the second level spells..specifically bulls strength. I didn't take the paly all the way to 10 before multi'ing tho. Wanted to pick up some fighter extra feats. Anyway the combination is awesome.

pEnTaGrAm · Post by **pEnTaGrAm** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:49 am

thanks for all the help on multiclassing and stuff...you've been really helpful. There's no need for you to e-mail me the manual because I'm probably getting the game tonight.

pEnTaGrAm · Post by **pEnTaGrAm** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:58 am

Now the next "boring as hell and extremely newbie" question is: if I'm going for the fighter/paladin class, which is the best race to choose?

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 10:19 am

So the restriction, once you multiclass your paladin you can no longer advance as a paladin is not inte the game?
I wouldn´t mind having a look at that manual. Thanks.

Magus · Post by **Magus** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:31 pm

@Bruce Lee: Apparently e-mail addresses aren't listed in the profile like they used to be. Since the file will be an attachment, I can't do it through Gamebanshee. So you e-mail me first, then I'll reply with an e-mail containing the attachment. Okay?

@Pentagram: I'd go human. The other races either have attribute bonuses you don't need (i.e. dexterity), or have penalties to charisma, which as a paladin you'll be needing. A half-elf would also be a decent choice.

Mathurin · Post by **Mathurin** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:26 am

The game doesn't include the multiclass restrictions for monk or paladin, only the alignment restictions.