Well I have been complaining for a while about the "easiness" of BGII. I started with a full party of 6 -- yawn. I went to a party of 4 on greater difficulty -- yawn. I soloed a Monk -- super yawn. Wrong choice for a challenge.
Now it's time to get serious. I will FORCE BGII to challenge me, but I need some help.
What, in your opinion, is the weakest possible party configuration? I need ideas for classes, dual/multi/single, solo- or group.
I was considering a solo Beast Master. Or perhaps a solo Blade? Anything with backstab is out (too powerful) similarly spell casters/pure fighters out (worst figher+CF=whopper enough). Perhaps a Swashbuckler? What is the worst of the worst? Should I solo or would it be better/harder splitting experience with something truly lame like Yoshimo?
This is what I am planning:
Max. 5 Rolls when generating character. Hardness setting one above core. No infinite money tricks in the Promenade. Legal play, slow and steady.
I think soloing even the weakest class might not be the way to go; isn't even the worst class at level 17-23 good enough? Would I be worse off dragging alone exactly the wrong 4 companions?
Any ideas? Hey just thought, a Druid maxes out at level 14 right?; how about a solo druid? Is that hard?
Need to form WEAKEST possible party
You can solo a druid, however it depends on which one. If you want a challange try soloing a shapeshifter. The other druid kits are strong enough to solo...although you will still have a harder time than your monk.
The hardest class to solo is prob one of theses.
beastmaster. (just plain sucks)
wizard slayer. (cannot use potions or magic eq)
kensai. (yes i know they are strong as k/m but not when soloing a straight kensai)
Jester. (that confusing thing can only get you so far)
Skald. (useful in a group but...until they can sing and fight at the same time...)
Archer. (decent but sucky prof with melee is bad for a solo without magic).
Paladins. (unless you cheat and get someone to help you kill firkgraag.)
The hardest class to solo is prob one of theses.
beastmaster. (just plain sucks)
wizard slayer. (cannot use potions or magic eq)
kensai. (yes i know they are strong as k/m but not when soloing a straight kensai)
Jester. (that confusing thing can only get you so far)
Skald. (useful in a group but...until they can sing and fight at the same time...)
Archer. (decent but sucky prof with melee is bad for a solo without magic).
Paladins. (unless you cheat and get someone to help you kill firkgraag.)
Any spellcaster (mage/cleric) is out. I'm unsure whether you want a druid because of the low cap or whether a character that hits a high level would make things tougher since you would face stronger monsters.
I think solo anything will make things harder. Most of the NPC's could make it through the game solo with intelligent play.
I'm leaning towards solo Wizard Slayer with all stats at 3, hard rules. A lot of what makes characters so powerful in the game is magic items. If I understand how the wizard slayer works correctly, the only magic items you can use are weapons. You do get Crom Faeyr eventually if you survive that long, but you can forget about Cloak of Mirroring and Ring of Gaxx, not to mention belts of str, gauntlets of dex (to make up for that 3 you have), potions, etc. It's going to take you a LONG time to heal when you need to...and with no magic armor and a dex of 3 you'll need to a lot.
Solo Skald would be worse than solo blade since the Skald's bonuses are geared towards a party while the Blade keeps them all for himself. However, they're both decent spellcasters.
Shapeshifters can't wear armor, but they automatically get decent stats when they shift. They also get all the druid spells.
A Kensai with low stats might be tough, but eventually he gets the Dex 18 gauntlets and Str 19 (20, 21) belt. Monks are so powerful I tend to think they'll manage somehow even with low stats.
[This message has been edited by Nighthawk (edited 03-06-2001).]
I think solo anything will make things harder. Most of the NPC's could make it through the game solo with intelligent play.
I'm leaning towards solo Wizard Slayer with all stats at 3, hard rules. A lot of what makes characters so powerful in the game is magic items. If I understand how the wizard slayer works correctly, the only magic items you can use are weapons. You do get Crom Faeyr eventually if you survive that long, but you can forget about Cloak of Mirroring and Ring of Gaxx, not to mention belts of str, gauntlets of dex (to make up for that 3 you have), potions, etc. It's going to take you a LONG time to heal when you need to...and with no magic armor and a dex of 3 you'll need to a lot.
Solo Skald would be worse than solo blade since the Skald's bonuses are geared towards a party while the Blade keeps them all for himself. However, they're both decent spellcasters.
Shapeshifters can't wear armor, but they automatically get decent stats when they shift. They also get all the druid spells.
A Kensai with low stats might be tough, but eventually he gets the Dex 18 gauntlets and Str 19 (20, 21) belt. Monks are so powerful I tend to think they'll manage somehow even with low stats.
[This message has been edited by Nighthawk (edited 03-06-2001).]
With the wizard slayer: you can use weapons, armour, shield, helmet. Actually most of the harcore rules will be forced automatically (you cannot steal/use wands/use cloak of mirroring etc.) 
You should have at least one "Cure Light Wounds" innate ability, otherwise you will sleep for weeks (until fully healed).
You should have at least one "Cure Light Wounds" innate ability, otherwise you will sleep for weeks (until fully healed).
Originally posted by Bill:
I am sorry,but i will disappoint Genesis.I soloed an Undead Hunter and it was toooo easy.Firkraag,Shadow and Black Dragon went down on my first try.
I have no reason not to believe that you did this...as long as you're certain you played core rules and didn't cheat at all...you got my thumbs up.
@Genesis: I used normal rules,so I was just getting more HP,but i believe with the regenerating items you found in the game,high HP are not crucial.And the XP cap was active (max lvl 17).
From the three paladin kits,inquisitor will be in more trouble.He has very good offensive anti-mage capabilities,but he'll have trouble against vampires (he can't protect himself from level drain like the undead hunter and he can't cast negative plane protection like a cavalier).He also don't have turn undead (my Undead Hunter,in the cap "exploded" most undead -vampires,ghouls,shadows,vampiric mists etc.).Although the paladins are considered maximum lvl 9 priests as spellcasters,turn undead ability is considered a lvl 15 ability at the cap.
As for the initial question,possibly a Beastmaster will be hard to solo.But then again with so many powerful items you can find in the game,you never know.
On the other hand,having a strength of 3,you will be able to carry....5 pounds...that is a couple of scrolls and potions?
[This message has been edited by Bill (edited 03-06-2001).]
From the three paladin kits,inquisitor will be in more trouble.He has very good offensive anti-mage capabilities,but he'll have trouble against vampires (he can't protect himself from level drain like the undead hunter and he can't cast negative plane protection like a cavalier).He also don't have turn undead (my Undead Hunter,in the cap "exploded" most undead -vampires,ghouls,shadows,vampiric mists etc.).Although the paladins are considered maximum lvl 9 priests as spellcasters,turn undead ability is considered a lvl 15 ability at the cap.
As for the initial question,possibly a Beastmaster will be hard to solo.But then again with so many powerful items you can find in the game,you never know.
On the other hand,having a strength of 3,you will be able to carry....5 pounds...that is a couple of scrolls and potions?
[This message has been edited by Bill (edited 03-06-2001).]
"ÃçñÜóêù áåß äéäáóêüìåíïò"
Another idea .... no reloads. Anyone dies, except your PC, you just continue on.
(I'm trying to play this way. Just lost Aerie playing core rules - totally dead - and it is very frustrating having to sign up a 7th level replacement when everyone else is 12-14)
(I'm trying to play this way. Just lost Aerie playing core rules - totally dead - and it is very frustrating having to sign up a 7th level replacement when everyone else is 12-14)
"There's nothing I like better than the sound of the banjo. Unless its the sound of a chicken being strangled."
You need good equipment.I face them after i hit the cap,but this is easy to reach if you play solo.I had an Undead Hunter so i could use some cleric spells (up to 4th lvl).
Weapons : Dual wield Flail of Ages,Belm.With boots of speed,5 att/round unhasted.(++ in flails,++ dual wield).I also had Ring of Gaxx.
Let's take Firkraag as an example : You found a scroll of protection from fire somewhere in the dungeon (at least i did).Use it before the battle.Drink a potion (or potions) of genius if your int is low,so you can use to scroll (you need int 10 for that).You can also use the protection from fire cleric spell,but it doesn't last very long.
Valuable items:
Short sword Ilbratha:Equip this so you can use mirror image.I use it at the middle of the fight,after he had used two wing buffet.For some reason he didn't dispell it and it lasted for some rounds (4-5 i estimate)
Use cleric spells like bless,aid,draw upon holy might,prot from evil etc.Draw UHM is essential in order to lower your THACO (i reached 24 STR) and lower your AC a bit.Memorize more than one,so if one expires during the battle,you will be able to cast it-preferably when he uses wing buffet on you.
He casts Stoneskin,but Flail of Ages,can hurt him through and slow him,too.When he uses wing buffet you can drink a potion of extra healing before you attack again.I used 2,if i remember correct.
Critical point:As long he is up to "Badly wounded",he don't cast heal.If he is "Near Death" and use wing buffet,you must attack him as soon as possible,even if you are wounded because he'll cast heal.Otherwise you have the time to drink potions of healing and attack him again (as mentioned above).But if he is "Near Death",there is no retreat:either death or victory.
[This message has been edited by Bill (edited 03-06-2001).]
Weapons : Dual wield Flail of Ages,Belm.With boots of speed,5 att/round unhasted.(++ in flails,++ dual wield).I also had Ring of Gaxx.
Let's take Firkraag as an example : You found a scroll of protection from fire somewhere in the dungeon (at least i did).Use it before the battle.Drink a potion (or potions) of genius if your int is low,so you can use to scroll (you need int 10 for that).You can also use the protection from fire cleric spell,but it doesn't last very long.
Valuable items:
Short sword Ilbratha:Equip this so you can use mirror image.I use it at the middle of the fight,after he had used two wing buffet.For some reason he didn't dispell it and it lasted for some rounds (4-5 i estimate)
Use cleric spells like bless,aid,draw upon holy might,prot from evil etc.Draw UHM is essential in order to lower your THACO (i reached 24 STR) and lower your AC a bit.Memorize more than one,so if one expires during the battle,you will be able to cast it-preferably when he uses wing buffet on you.
He casts Stoneskin,but Flail of Ages,can hurt him through and slow him,too.When he uses wing buffet you can drink a potion of extra healing before you attack again.I used 2,if i remember correct.
Critical point:As long he is up to "Badly wounded",he don't cast heal.If he is "Near Death" and use wing buffet,you must attack him as soon as possible,even if you are wounded because he'll cast heal.Otherwise you have the time to drink potions of healing and attack him again (as mentioned above).But if he is "Near Death",there is no retreat:either death or victory.
[This message has been edited by Bill (edited 03-06-2001).]
"ÃçñÜóêù áåß äéäáóêüìåíïò"
Solo is too easy if you know what you're doing. A party without a thief or mage would present some difficulties. You could give Yoshi the flick until you need him for Spellhold. It's my understanding (it could be flawed) that you need Yoshi for Spellhold.
Your greatest problem is that there are no weak classes, every class has its strengths and weaknesses. But I would definitely recommend that if you want a challenge that you don't go solo. One combo that sounded great, (it was used in IWD), was a party of 6 evil Gnome illusionists. It mightn't be the easiest but it would be a lot of fun.
Your greatest problem is that there are no weak classes, every class has its strengths and weaknesses. But I would definitely recommend that if you want a challenge that you don't go solo. One combo that sounded great, (it was used in IWD), was a party of 6 evil Gnome illusionists. It mightn't be the easiest but it would be a lot of fun.
bill read nighthawks post on dragons he's already talked about it today (fire protection) plus your armour class could'nt have been better then -12 or -13 even with draw uhm
and you can still hit through mirror image. the red dragon would tear you limb from limb.you'll have to hit him 6 maybe 7 times before he's stone skin was down, and he always hastes with me so why not you.
and you can still hit through mirror image. the red dragon would tear you limb from limb.you'll have to hit him 6 maybe 7 times before he's stone skin was down, and he always hastes with me so why not you.
Check the date on that post.. posted 10-30-2000 12:35 PM I believe NightHawk might have a different opinion on this now.Originally posted by ROWDIN:
bill read nighthawks post on dragons he's already talked about it today (fire protection) plus your armour class could'nt have been better then -12 or -13 even with draw uhm
and you can still hit through mirror image. the red dragon would tear you limb from limb.you'll have to hit him 6 maybe 7 times before he's stone skin was down, and he always hastes with me so why not you.
"Vile and evil, yes. But, That's Weasel" From BS's book, MD 20/20: Fine Wines of Rocky Flop.
My AC was -11.Haste is not a problem if you use Flail of Ages (Slows him down even if he has Stoneskin).As for the Mirror image,the images gradually decreased,meaning that they asborbed hits.I had 9 images in total,if i remember correct.Originally posted by ROWDIN:
bill read nighthawks post on dragons he's already talked about it today (fire protection) plus your armour class could'nt have been better then -12 or -13 even with draw uhm
and you can still hit through mirror image. the red dragon would tear you limb from limb.you'll have to hit him 6 maybe 7 times before he's stone skin was down, and he always hastes with me so why not you.
As for the fire resistance,I remember in one game that i tested a character with the ring of fire protection and under the influence of a "resist fire/cold" spell and he had a total 90% resistance to fire.He stood in front of Firkkrag and when he used red dragon breath,the game stated that he suffered 7 hp of damage,meaning that the effects worked.The same apply with the protection from fire scroll.Otherwise i would be dead in seconds.
"ÃçñÜóêù áåß äéäáóêüìåíïò"
I am getting very depressed here.
I agree any spell-caster is too powerful/easy. I just can't see any paladin variant being that difficult, you can just load him up with standard whopper equipment and off you go. And of course the base stats for a paladin are respectible if not outstanding. And they have all kinds of special abilities too.
I think the BEASTMASTER solo is the way to go, although apparantly CF is not a "metal weapon" thus warhammers can be used...is this correct? It was mentioned, in passing, in one of the posts.
I suppose I will end up Dual-Wielding clubs, or one club one warhammer. Throw in a proficiency in quarterstaff (that +4 one), also short bows ok I assume? I'm still worried however. Playing solo he will reach near max. level before having to battle dragons...and will have basic spells at that point correct? Plus by that time -10 AC, ranger-like HP's, good THATCO, etc. Also I suspect as level increases summoned animal quality increases (what's the max, summoning 5 black bears or something?).
I refuse to play with all 3's in my stats, however. I want BGII to be a challenge, but I don't feel the need to cripple myself utterly before hand. I will do this, however: ACCEPT THE FIRST ROLL I GET. After that, I will play the beastmaster as best I can. I think if I can make it to the promenade and the easy x.p. there (graveyard stuff, etc.) I will be ok. I also have decided to play on the most difficult setting.
This is BGII's last chance. If this is boring something is very very wrong with the game play, characters are too powerful.
I agree any spell-caster is too powerful/easy. I just can't see any paladin variant being that difficult, you can just load him up with standard whopper equipment and off you go. And of course the base stats for a paladin are respectible if not outstanding. And they have all kinds of special abilities too.
I think the BEASTMASTER solo is the way to go, although apparantly CF is not a "metal weapon" thus warhammers can be used...is this correct? It was mentioned, in passing, in one of the posts.
I suppose I will end up Dual-Wielding clubs, or one club one warhammer. Throw in a proficiency in quarterstaff (that +4 one), also short bows ok I assume? I'm still worried however. Playing solo he will reach near max. level before having to battle dragons...and will have basic spells at that point correct? Plus by that time -10 AC, ranger-like HP's, good THATCO, etc. Also I suspect as level increases summoned animal quality increases (what's the max, summoning 5 black bears or something?).
I refuse to play with all 3's in my stats, however. I want BGII to be a challenge, but I don't feel the need to cripple myself utterly before hand. I will do this, however: ACCEPT THE FIRST ROLL I GET. After that, I will play the beastmaster as best I can. I think if I can make it to the promenade and the easy x.p. there (graveyard stuff, etc.) I will be ok. I also have decided to play on the most difficult setting.
This is BGII's last chance. If this is boring something is very very wrong with the game play, characters are too powerful.
Here's an idea I had last night :
Make a party of six. Take only the first roll (redistribute point if you want but no stats under 10 are allowed). Set the difficulty at the highest.
This is the party :
- Conjurer
- Diviner (and protection spells)
- Enchanter
- Evoker
- Swachbucler/mage (combat enhancer spells and protection spells)
- Priest of Talos/mage (necromancy spells)
All of these spellcasters are to scribe in their books spells that exclusively belong to their sphere of magic. Thus, only the conjurer can summon and only the evoker can cast fireballs.
Having such a specialized group may seems powerful, but since all of these spellcasters are not designed to brave many situations (where often only one or two can help), then I suppose it will really hard to manage such a group.
If anything, I would think that this is even more difficult than soloing a beastmaster. They'll be low on xps, the enchanter can't do anything against skeletons, and many other ennemies, the evoker always put his companion at risk when using his powers (area effects), the diviner is almost useless, and don't forget the fact that only the evoker will get magic missile while the necromancer will have Larlock Minor Drain, the Conjurer will have Grease, the enchanter will have charm person, etc.
They might well end up in trouble more often than not.
I'll at least try it myself.
Make a party of six. Take only the first roll (redistribute point if you want but no stats under 10 are allowed). Set the difficulty at the highest.
This is the party :
- Conjurer
- Diviner (and protection spells)
- Enchanter
- Evoker
- Swachbucler/mage (combat enhancer spells and protection spells)
- Priest of Talos/mage (necromancy spells)
All of these spellcasters are to scribe in their books spells that exclusively belong to their sphere of magic. Thus, only the conjurer can summon and only the evoker can cast fireballs.
Having such a specialized group may seems powerful, but since all of these spellcasters are not designed to brave many situations (where often only one or two can help), then I suppose it will really hard to manage such a group.
If anything, I would think that this is even more difficult than soloing a beastmaster. They'll be low on xps, the enchanter can't do anything against skeletons, and many other ennemies, the evoker always put his companion at risk when using his powers (area effects), the diviner is almost useless, and don't forget the fact that only the evoker will get magic missile while the necromancer will have Larlock Minor Drain, the Conjurer will have Grease, the enchanter will have charm person, etc.
They might well end up in trouble more often than not.
I'll at least try it myself.