imoen romance mod, rated R, mature, in beta test...

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:51 am

But User also says:

overall if it wasnt for the bug i would be playing right now.....

some good writing here......

I think he likes it...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Sep 27, 2002 12:51 pm

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after you rescue her from jon, she describes the tortures she went thru, and while it is described with sensativity....she is raped by a minion of jon....

actually thats quite realistic...torture usually involves sexual abuse...read any good books about the female soe and sis agents who were captured by the nazis in ww2.....

almost made me gag....

but i do have to say kudos for lord m for logically and bravely writing this stuff...and in the end she "chunks" the abuser with unleashed bhaal power, so its ok....

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Fri Sep 27, 2002 2:41 pm

Rape is a poor tool for Irenicus, and I can never see him employing it.

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Fri Sep 27, 2002 2:57 pm

Originally posted by Quitch
Rape is a poor tool for Irenicus, and I can never see him employing it.

I couldn't agree more.

However, according to User, she was raped by one of his minions.
That would make at least some sense...

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:27 pm

bah. I'm seriously urged to answer, here.
Immie says something at the beginning of the game, like that Jon
(Jon HIMSELF) made the same thing TO YOU...
Given that the PC can be EVERYTHING, say, a MALE Half-Orc with
Charisma 3, I really think sexual abuses were left out of the story..

(At least I hope so for poor Jonny

)
Probably the guy just needed some pretest..

I assume Quitchy would never inflict such nasty violences upon little
Immie?

Not even in her past I mean!!!!! (scars, anyone?)

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Sep 27, 2002 5:54 pm

Why would Jonny have anyone raped? He's searching for the Bhaalspawn power, not just being evil. He's not interested in sex or suffering, he just wants his soul back. The "torture" he inflicts on the party is part of his "experiments", not a hobby.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:12 am

as i understood it, jon wanted to test what a bhaalspawn would react when subjected to rage....

and used pain and rape to trigger berserker rage in imoen, who slayer changed, and she ripped the duegar evil dwarf to little tiny bits......

and the dialog after wards you get to say something very very satisfying about jon....

"i will carve out your name on jons skin for every one of the scars he put on your body"

or something like that...i think lord m was trying to establish that jon is so evil and so cold and dead of heart he even had a expendable minion rape sis to see if that would trigger berserker rage and slayer change...so it was really one big experiment to him.,....

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 3:59 am

Rape, as an instrument of torture, is used to break down someone's will and to effectively gain control or power over them.

This would not serve Irenicus in any fashion, and he is far beyond doing it for pleasure. As for minions, I'd like to know where this came from. As far as I could see he operated alone, creating Golems for tasks where required. Bodhi worked with him, but there was no real bond there.

This strikes me as a cheap way of getting an emotional reaction from the player without any thought put into the application of rape. Rather, that rape is simply considered "bad" and thus inflicted on Imoen to seal a bond between the player and herself.

jcompton · Post by **jcompton** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:13 pm

Originally posted by Quitch
As for minions, I'd like to know where this came from. As far as I could see he operated alone, creating Golems for tasks where required.

Rielev appeared to have been a non-golem servant.

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 12:51 pm

Originally posted by jcompton
Rielev appeared to have been a non-golem servant.

Ilyich and Co.?
The dwarves on the second level of the dungeon?

They all called him "the Master"...

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 2:23 pm

Rielev seemed more of a friend than anything else, broken through death, and forgotten as Irenicus lost all contact with anyone but his sister.

The dwarves, yes, required to create tools... yet what need had he at Spellhold? I saw no minions, and it was a small compex, bar Saemon, nor do I see why he would need any.

This is secondary though. The servants obviously fear their master, which means they wouldn't do something unless directed to do so, and to this there is no purpose.

GNGSpam · Post by **GNGSpam** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 4:43 pm

Ridiculous. First of all, "rape" is not an organized torture device. It most certainly happens, especially in war, but very few countries which carried out organized torture ever used "rape" (ie Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany).

And besides, its just unessecary. You break down a person through sleep deprevation, malnutrition, loud sounds and music, by alternating between caring for them and yelling at them, essentially creating a surreal world where they are completely incapable of function on a reality level. None of this requires rape. Its very obvious that you all have a very CRUDE impression of what torture is.

Sounds like a cheap trick designed to whip emotions into a frenzy.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 6:26 pm

sorry spam, but almost all women prisoners in ww2 were raped...its an effective way to break resistance in almost any situation....in fact it was even used on men....

sexual abuse will fundementally break thru almost any psychological "toughening" up a prisoner will try to put up to survive...its long been known as the optimum "softening" prelude before getting to work with the really serious stuff,,,,

and quitch, if irenicus found out immie could not slayer change because no matter what the situation, she could not turn into something so dreadful, that she was the one resisting the slayer change with all her might, sexual abuse might have been jons way to break down her innate "goodness"

though i completely agree its a way to get the player to sympathise with her even more...though we all love our immie...

GNGSpam · Post by **GNGSpam** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 2:14 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
sorry spam, but almost all women prisoners in ww2 were raped...its an effective way to break resistance in almost any situation....in fact it was even used on men....

sexual abuse will fundementally break thru almost any psychological "toughening" up a prisoner will try to put up to survive...its long been known as the optimum "softening" prelude before getting to work with the really serious stuff,,,,

What the hell? Are you just making stuff up? By all means cite where you are getting this RIDICULOUS information from or please, stop making stuff up. While rapes most certainly did occur in prisons it was rarely if ever done in a structured and purposeful manner. Prison guards quite natrually took advantage of their position of power. Rapes still occur today in our modern american prisons. But its not government issued with the intention of breaking prisoner moral.

And long been known as the optimum "softening" prelude? God I just cant even discuss this with you. You are completely bull****ting and making this up. Good God

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 3:47 am

Originally posted by GNGSpam
Ridiculous. First of all, "rape" is not an organized torture device. It most certainly happens, especially in war, but very few countries which carried out organized torture ever used "rape" (ie Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany).

CNG, could you clarify what you mean by this? Do you mean that Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union didn't employ rape? Or are you saying they were the exceptions and did? (Pretty significant exceptions anyway)

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 5:23 am

agent "madeline" who was one of the 30 or so women soe(strategic operations executive) captured by the nazis in occupied france...during the nuremberg trials her documentation came to light chronicalling her torture and eventual shipment to a concentration camp where she was executed.....in the documents her torture was rather explicitly detailed...

yes i agree there was rarely a official sanctioned sexual abuse, but her torturers were hung based on their reports.,...

now the nkvd documents are rather more sparse, due to the fact the former soviet union is rather more secrative about its excesses, but it did happen...

most of my sources are in the library, the thicker drier books about the secret wars....not the popularized time life stuff, forgot titles, it was back in high school...

i forget the source, but the author cited nuremberg trial transcripts and it simply stuck in my head...

the author also made inferences about the similarities between the nkvd and the ss....

have you ever read brickhill's great escape??? the book was sensationalized into a movie...but brickhills book chronacled the medieval tortures and how some of the escapers were actually beaten to death after they were captured...the movie had them being machined gunned...nope, they were tortured to death in particulary gruesome ways...

i mean the crimes some of the nazis were hung for in the nuremberg trials literally defied belief....stuff gave me nightmares for weeks,...

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 9:30 am

Originally posted by GNGSpam
And long been known as the optimum "softening" prelude? God I just cant even discuss this with you. You are completely bull****ting and making this up. Good God

When your tantrum ends, tell me, will you be making a point?

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:33 pm

if spam wants me to say i made this stuff up to get out of the sick twist this thread is spinnning tword, which i am very much regretting starting, i will do so....

ok, back to the mod, which is overall very well written, and any mod, no matter the content is a huge work deserving of respect and kudos...

anyone else running this mod???

i had a very nasty plot killing bug emerging from the underdark, a "no valid reply or link" when a dialog came up, and i tried to remove tashia just to see what would happen, and got a crc error, so i ended up blowing everything away and starting a new install...

but i am interested in the mods people have run stable with immie romance mod....

i have reduced the number of variables (mods) to item upgrade and immie mod only...wish me luck...

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 6:32 pm

The question of rape's use in war is not a subject for this forum. By all means, continue to discuss it, but create a topic down in the SYM area (Speak Your Mind) to do so. Thanks.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:27 am

Anyway, I really think that such things were left out from the
game "atmosphere".
There are the evil guys, of course, but the closest thing to a sexual
abuse you may see from them is Isaea trying to marry Nalia......

EDIT: well, there are the courtesans, too..