Is Haer Dalis worth having?

[RA]

But you can use the girdle of fortitude so you will have many hp

[PaulDenton]

you dont need have to buy glasses of id you dont have to spend mony so you can buy your magic license earlier

> Why do you want to buy the license?
> I never buy that so that I could kill
> those Cowled Fools later.


You can specialise your thief better because you dont have to put points in pickpocket ( I've you want to, and dont have to make sure you are carying potion of master thievery.

> True, but potions are really cheap and cumulative.
> Drink three and you will be making a lot of money.

They can cast pierce magic and breach so you get rid of those protections (with your fighter cant so he can wait until those where of) if you target dispell magic on your enemy you wont be affected.

> But no ruby ray which removes
> the protection spells that protects
> from pierce magic and breach.
> BTW, my fighter will have a REAL mage by his side.


then my bard uses the wand.

> Then, what's the point of having a bard?

No you cant take my bard down, with improved haste he has 4 attacks a round and tensers tranrformation a thaco of -3 and -1 with (or -2 and 0) And they can place +++ in two weapon fighting style.

> What is the use of 4 attacks per round
> when the base attack is pathetic?

And dual wielding blackrazor and CF you are dead meat.

> Fighting in Hell?

Putting greater malison in my chain contentincy and cast feeble mind you are screwed (if you are not protected).

> Like I said, I won't be alone.

I don't stay at the back with my Blade, 11 stone skins youre fighter has a hard time hitting my blade, with defensive spin he has a armour class of -15 (bladesinger chain and ring of gaxx)

> Ever heard of breach?

The use of the dwarven thrower is not a bug and the +2 in shorts swords also, look at jaheira she has also other cleric spells (exampe zone of sweet air).

> They are all bugs.

Also the use of ring of free action (it protects against EVERY thing that affects movement magical or not read the description at gamebanshee).

> But not innate abilities.
> Using that ring is CHEATING.

You also die in a couple of hits with girdle of hill giant strenght a had hits with my blad of 48 with is high. with the use of tensers i have around 228 hp so I dont die afther 3 hits.

> You will be dead before you can cast
> Tenser and offensive spin.

So bards are great. sory for my foults in my writing. he was my protagonist so he had many hp.

> Bards are great only if you are soloing.

[PaulDenton]

And I will trade a Bard for a Fighter/Mage anyday!

[two]

Hm...seems like SOME people have something against bards. I wonder why?

One point that EVERYONE agrees on: Blades DO require combat supervision. You can't blindly throw them into combat the way you can a fighter. That's also true for a Mage, however. Combat for spell casters always requires more thougt and preparation.

Decide before a combat if you want to use the Blade as a) pure spell caster, or b) front-line fighter. Don't mix and match.

If A) use the 23rd level ability to its fullest. Lower resistence, cone of cold, skull trap, dispel magic, these the bard can do better than any other class. Skull trap is maxxed out at level 20 though I think (20d6) in my experience I didn't see much improvemet between level 20 and 23. So get invisible, scout some, see what's there, lay down skull-traps cone of colds (sequencer? whatever), then run behind the fighters. Or whack the enemy mages with remove-magic type spells. Melf's Minute Meteors is great if you are holding Crom F. 5 attacks a round, infinite range, strength damage applies, goes through a lot of mage protections. And yes the Bard will always hit, don't worry (unless vs. dragon).

If B)pause for a moment. Put Kundane off-hand, your favorite sword in the other. Or Kundane+Belm for base 4 attacks a round (both give an extra attack). Cast stone skin. Cast mirror image if you like. Cast improved haste (lasts 23 rounds). If you are paranoid cast Spell Immunity (Abjuration) so nothing can remove your magics. If you really are nuts, cast Tensor's then run in screaming.

With belm+kundane you attack 8 times a round; respectible. If you have decent strength damage is high. If you have CromF+Kundane it's 6 attacks/round, VERY effective, av. damage/hit 30 or so.

Yes you must prepare in either case, but it's fun!

I didn't mention offensive/defensive spin, use these if you like as well somewhere. Defensive spin+spell casting is cool.

I don't see why HD is weak if you use him right. If you use him wrong (as any NPC) yes he's weak. Run Jan blind into melee, see what happens! Run Misc into Mind Flayers, ow.

[Andrew Shih]

Paul Denton,

First, the blade CAN put three stars in dual-wield--they are one of the few class combos which can do so. Second, with a katana or a crossbow, it's an automatic '10' with a 1-10 die role, not 1-6. And if you add in the fact that blades get dual-wield AND also get an extra attack/round during offensive spin, that means 30 base damage instead of 10 for the four rounds of offensive spin which equals 120 damage instead of 30. Another thing is that having three swings/round while at the same time having that wisdom-draining sword which drains 2 wisdom points/hit means that even a monster with tons of HP will fall in two or three rounds if it has average wisdom. 11 stoneskins IS a big deal--keep in mind that if defensive spin is in effect along with mirror image (8 images) and defensive spin, an enemy would have to hit the blade 19 times at approximately -12 AC! My solo blade fought Irenicus/Slayer and came out of it without a scratch, simply had to renew Stoneskin and Mirror Image once.

--Riverwind

[Andrew Shih]

Mr. Denton:

Regarding your inquiry into what the function and role of the BLADE is, I would submit to you that it is the perfect partner for the KENSAI, which you seem to like so much. In a party, monsters tend to target the spellcaster with the fewest hit points, especially if you bring your blade out into the open. And then, defensive spin, stoneskin, mirror image, it will take the monsters FOREVER to hit HD 19 times at -12 AC, an entire group of monsters can be concentrating their attacks on Haer Daelis, while meanwhile your Kensai can attack the monsters without getting hit themselves or worrying about their own AC, and your sorcerer can lob spells over, and even if you don't have the ring of free action, HD can cast "Cone of Cold" or "Vampiric Touch," etc., without worrying about getting interrupted, etc. If he runs out of mirror images, he simply casts mirror image again--it's just a level 2 mage spell. In between mirror images, he has stoneskin in effect. If defensive spin runs out, he can renew it. Blades get like 6 defensive spins AND 6 offensive spins by the XP cap. If the monsters are almost dead because the Kensai keeps hitting them while the Blade is distracting them, and also because the Assassin meanwhile keeps doing hit-and-runs, then the next time the defensive spin runs out, the Blade can switch to offensive spin. Oh, and even if mirror images are gone, and defensive spins run out, and stoneskins are used up, and the Blade gets to very low hit points... all of a sudden Tenser's Transformation Contingency kicks in, and the Blade suddenly has over the max normal HP and has a better base THACO than anyone, including a straight fighter.

--Riverwind

[Andrew Shih]

By the way, a Blade doesn't have to "cast" Tenser's Transformation, it kicks in automatically and instantaneously when Contingency is triggered--I like to set it for "HP 25% or less." The problem with Contingency for a normal mage is that you have to be three times the spell level of whatever spell you want to put into your contingency, and Tenser's is a level 6 spell, and straight mages can't reach level 18, they can only reach level 17 under the BG II XP Cap. A blade on the other hand can reach level 23. The one thing Tenser's doesn't do is increase # of attacks/round, but blades get 2 attacks/round (3 if in offensive spin).

The best weapons for the Blade are probably the Celestial Fury and the Crom Faehr or Dakkron's Zerth Blade.

--Riverwind

[PaulDenton]

Yeah, yeah, Mr. Blade Lover. I am not in a mood to argue. So, bards are the best!!! Everyone should play bards and bards only. No mages, no fighters, we don't need them. Bards can do everything. Just play 6 bards in a party!!! We can conquer the world. Yeah! Maybe I should go play more bard before I start arguing, eh? You win, have your victory here. Fight these mindless assasins. I must start a new. You can have this place. I hope it is your tomb.

[Andrew Shih]

Actually, six skalds in a party could conquer the world, because skald songs stack.

--Riverwind

[Shiivehk]

Uh, Paul Denton, perhaps you should stick with Deus Ex. I don't believe anyone was saying you should play with JUST Bards. Bards (and blades) are good if used effectively. EVERY class has to be used right or it is no use. If you use your mages to attack an enemy with close range weapons and your warriors and paladins to hang back and cast weak spells, you will be dead in no time. Blades seem to be a cross between Mages (but are better in some ways and worse in others) and Warriors (again they have advantages and disadvantages to each other).

IMO, this forum should be used to discuss using different classes together effectively instead of pitting different ones against each other and talking about which one would defeat the other one. Sheesh.

[Rail]

Originally posted by Paul Denton:
<STRONG><snip>
> BTW, my fighter will have a REAL mage by his side.
<snip>
Putting greater malison in my chain contentincy and cast feeble mind you are screwed (if you are not protected).

> Like I said, I won't be alone.
<snip>
</STRONG>

So, you're saying that your two characters can beat a single bard?!? Bravo! Feel proud!

Originally posted by Shiivehk:
<STRONG><IMO, this forum should be used to discuss using different classes together effectively instead of pitting different ones against each other and talking about which one would defeat the other one. Sheesh. </STRONG>

You said my thoughts precisely, Shiivehk. We've kind of beat the "which class is unbeatable" debate to death. Each class has strengths and weaknesses, and some compliment others. I tend to find Blades a very well balanced class, strong at times in melee, strong at times in spell-casting, with plenty of special abilities to make life interesting. They do require close monitoring in combat, but I do that anyway, so no skin off my back. Basically, if you haven't tried the blade kit, give it a shot. You might like it. You might not. To each his own.

[ 05-21-2001: Message edited by: Rail ]

[White Rabbit]

Bards rule so !!!!!! They may not be the strongest of classes, but they are fun to play!


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I hear that if you got Hair'Dalis and Airy in your party they get it on. My party is Me (Archer) Viconia(monk) Airy(mage/cleric) and hairy(blade). so that way i will have 2 couples. Oh and by the way I created a monk template for viconia and used SK to make her one. Who needs 2 clerics?

[sigurd]

Well, a bard is never the best compliment, there is always a better choice.

In ToB they would be useless as a tank, and any mage is better defensively.

[Rail]

I beg to differ. I'm not the worlds biggest bard fan, but I think they are one of the best complimentary characters in the game. In a normal party, they will have the best magic missile, dispel magic, and any level-dependent damaging mage spell. They work well as a back-up tank (tenser's transformation and stoneskin and they're better than a fighter), their song (especially Skalds) compliment any party's abilities. If they had dimension door, they'd be astoundingly fun. I.E. dimension door in as the emergency tank allowing the fighters to retreat. Or, dimension door in with a sunfire contingency which will be more powerful than your mage due to difference in level (until the damage cap, that is). I think they're definitely a solid character, very flexible to accomodate many different strategies.