Some BIG bugs I've never seen reported.

Davion · Post by **Davion** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 11:36 am

I actually stopped playing the game for months because of them and even now they hold me back from BG2.

The first and most important, is the bug with attacks per round. My high-level archer (level 17 or so) should have about 4.5 attacks per round with his bow (Tuigan) and about 3.5 attacks per round with Tasheron bow (or whatever, it was a high number anyway) and no matter what, he would do 2.5 attacks per round at most. That's with a bow, which has 2 attacks per round by default. The archer had GM in short bow, which should have given him a half an attack. 3.5 attacks with (2 for bow) + 1 (for being a high level fighter) and +0.5 (for specialization). When using auto-pause (or various targets) he would do sometimes 3 attacks per round or sometimes 2 (avg 2.5). I am inclined ot believe that 2.5 is the max number that any character can have not including magic. Improved Haste (he got it from Ringn of Gaxx I think, or some other item thas has a few second duration) did double his attacks to exactly 5 per round.

Anyways, this limit isn't fair and ruins the Archer for me.

The other bug that I've noticed with archer is some tricky. If he's using a weapon that uses phantom ammo (such as the Tasheron Bow, or the Sling of Everard), the damage inflicted upon the creature is also "phantom" and is negated by regenertion. At least, that's how it looked to me. Let me describe the scenario. The aforementioned archer was pumping a (any) Greater Werewolf with arrows from Tansheron's Bow at a rapid rate and at the end of the round, the monster would completely heal. We're talking 80 or more damage per round, completely healed. If using Draw Upon Holy Might (innate ability from BG1) and the Sling of Everard (which adds STR bonus to damage), and Impr. Hasted I was doing over 120 damage per round, and it would also be instantly regenerated. Yet, if using the Tasheron Bow with *normal arrows +2*, the monster dropped as he should have (within two rounds or so). Also, interestingly, if the Archer used multiple Called Shots abilities (stacking them!!!), the monster dropped almost instantly (I think even using the phantom arrows, although it was months ago and I'm not sure). It was as if stacking called shots turned arrows into one-shot death missiles.

Phantom damage, as I call it, seemed to be only negated by regeneration and is only a problem against Greater Werewolves (or is it wolfweres? I forget.)

I haven't been in the loop for a while, so maybe these bugs are already well known. I just wish they could be fixed, especially with the cap of 2.5 (unaided by magic) attacks per round.

Best wishes, Davion

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 11:42 am

Welcome.

Unfortunate a bows RoF have more with the number of attacks per round that anything else.
Also greater werewolfs have a INSANE regereation rate, so its not the a bug.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 12:07 pm

davion imo you are correct on both counts.

a) do you have the grandmastery patch? i thought that would fix the attacks per round thing.

b) you are correct w/ the greater wolfwere, there is a bug involved i've run into it a few times, where the whole party will be wacking away at it and it does not die, the good news is once it does finallly die, any other greater wolfweres seem have "regular" regeneration. it's a major pain in the tail.

Davion · Post by **Davion** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 12:12 pm

I'm know that those Greater Wolfweres have insane regeneration rate. Insane yes, but not 120 HP per round! I have dropped dozens of them in my game time, and I know how tough they should be. Also note that they dropped very fast with the same Archer and same bow, but with regular Arrows +2 instead of Tansheron's Phantom Arrows +3.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean regarding the capped rate of attack.

Thanks for replying.

Davion

Davion · Post by **Davion** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 12:22 pm

Originally posted by koz-ivan:
<STRONG>davion imo you are correct on both counts.

a) do you have the grandmastery patch? i thought that would fix the attacks per round thing.

b) you are correct w/ the greater wolfwere, there is a bug involved i've run into it a few times, where the whole party will be wacking away at it and it does not die, the good news is once it does finallly die, any other greater wolfweres seem have "regular" regeneration. it's a major pain in the tail.</STRONG>

I tried it with the patch and without (actually went throught the trouble of uninstalling the whole game for that). It was long ago, so I don't remember the details, but it did NOT help. I think maybe it's just with bows? Now I'm curious, so I'm going to install BG2 on the computer, dust off my archer and give it a try.

Also, with the wolfweres, after I dropped one I would save and likely reload for some reason before I tried the next (Firkrag's dungeon). Maybe for that reason, or another, their regeneration totally nullifying damage from phantom ammo was totally consistent for me.

Thanks for replying.

Davion

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 12:27 pm

I mean that the max level of attacks by the use of a bow is limited to the 2.5 attacks.
There is no way to change that fact (similary swords are limited to 5 attacks per round)
As for the bow...
I was in shadow keep to look at the damage of the arrows its 2 piercing, 1-8 electrical.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 12:46 pm

a) do you have the grandmastery patch? i thought that would fix the attacks per round thing.

Bioware made a conscious decision in toning down Grand Mastery. Patching that is actually cheating

As for the rate of fire: according to AD&D rules, characters do not get bonus attacks with bows for being high level warriors.

Davion · Post by **Davion** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 1:43 pm

Originally posted by Xyx:
<STRONG>Bioware made a conscious decision in toning down Grand Mastery. Patching that is actually cheating

As for the rate of fire: according to AD&D rules, characters do not get bonus attacks with bows for being high level warriors.</STRONG>

I don't really want to get into a "cheating" discussion. I'll just say that someone who plays exclusively in singleplayer mode doesn't harm anybody in changing GM.

Of more interest to me is what you said about fighters not getting any more attacks with bow on 7th and 13th levels. That is a big surprise to me. Could you point me to the book and page where it says that? I don't have attitude... It's just that I've been playing pnp AD&D for many years, and don't remember that rule.

Nonetheless, something is broken in BG2 with bows, because what is the point of having Tuigan bow, if you can never have more than 2.5 attacks per round (as Drakron Du´Dark says)?

Regards,

Davion

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 2:44 pm

No prob

Good point about the rate of fire of bows! I cannot find anything about the non-specialized rate of fire for high level warriors anywhere.

The table that lists extra attacks at levels 7 and 13 (AD&D Player's Handbook 2nd Edition, page 26) specifically deals with melee attacks.

Page 69 lists rate of fire for missile weapons, and does not mention warrior levels.

The specialized rate is detailed on page 52, and claims:

Bow specialists do not gain any additional attacks per round.

All other missile weapons have their specialized attacks listed there, all of them starting slightly higher than the ones listed on page 69.

This leads me to believe that bows are stuck to 2/1 attacks...

velvetfreak · Post by **velvetfreak** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 4:46 pm

I think there's a bit of confusion here.

I believe koz-ivan is talking about the GrandMastery "cheat" patch (available from the Baldurdash site), not the Bioware game patch.