Originally posted by CM I saw the movie as well and really liked it. But i wasnt really shocked that americans have firearms it is their choice really. But the media coverage is appalling. A gun battle or fire fight is prime time television and they just blatantly show it all one after the other.
The media needs to control its frenzy of showing so much violence. As the movie says, violence has been falling, but the coverage is growing expotentially. It might not sound like a big thing to us, but hell kids are extremely impressionable and they pick up on the smallest things.
If they see violence as a norm of society and that you can use guns to solve your problems then it certainly isnt good news. It was also very weird that nobody locks their door in canada.
Also what is stupid white men?
I havn't seen the movie yet (plan to this week), but I just yesterday saw a movie that touches this thread- Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers. It shows the medias obsession and encouregment of violence, and how the murderers aren't neccesarily the guilty party- as they wanted to beat the record, to be stars, the most famous murderers in history- and the media was right there with them, contained within the Robert Downey Jr. character.
"Veni,Vidi,vici!"
(I came,I saw,I conquered!) Julius Ceasar
Originally posted by Mr Sleep Because it is a very serious situation...
...Their decision to kill each other? ...
And what do you think of that book? I have yet to read it.
CM, SWM is Moore's book, pursuing similar subject material. I haven't read it yet but intend to.
Yes Sleep, guns are serious and the American people may deal with them as they see fit. Its not our place to judge. I don't think we (the UK) try to follow the US situation *at all*. Yes, there are the recently highly publicised gang killings of 2 girls. That has nothing to do with "US gun culture" or firearms ownership, whatever that may be.
I am always defensive of the US but not slavishly so. If I happen to think I don't like something that's going on, I will say so as is my perogative. They receive an awful lot of unfair attention, matters about which everyone has a right go at them, even though we have little personal knowledge of their experiences. But we're all entitled to our opinions, aren't we? Doesn't mean we're though.
"Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his pants for his friends."
Enchantress is my Goddess.
Few survive in the Heart of Fury...
Gamebanshee: [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/"]Make your gaming scream![/url]
Originally posted by Gruntboy Yes Sleep, guns are serious and the American people may deal with them as they see fit. Its not our place to judge.
Why do you say it isn't our place to judge? I don't see what the problem is spouting off the odd piece of rhetoric on the internet, hell I don't think any of what I said was close to libel
Yes, there are the recently highly publicised gang killings of 2 girls. That has nothing to do with "US gun culture" or firearms ownership, whatever that may be.
Granted, that was a poor example and I intended editing it out but I got pulled away all day to a job out of the office and I didn't get a chance, it wasn't a valid point since the situation in this country at the moment was very media driven, still I think this country does follow the US on several other things, but that is neither here nor there.
I am always defensive of the US but not slavishly so. If I happen to think I don't like something that's going on, I will say so as is my perogative.
I guess I only ever really see you around when you are defending the US, so it sticks. I can't recall the last time you had a complaint about their conduct either. If their conduct is in the right then you probably shouldn't have to defend them, or is that a naive point of view?
They receive an awful lot of unfair attention, matters about which everyone has a right go at them, even though we have little personal knowledge of their experiences. But we're all entitled to our opinions, aren't we? Doesn't mean we're though.
I don't think sharing of opinions is such a big problem, better do them on the faceless internet than get your real face punched in by somebody in a pub
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
Originally posted by Gruntboy Why are other countries so interested in America's relationship with firearms?
Because we are all inquisitive by nature I don't think neither I nor Sleep set out to negatively put down people living in the States. We were just discussing a documentary which focused on the gun problems in America.
I can think of a whole host of countries that have unlicensed access to firearms. We tried taking them of the Somalis, for example, and that didn't work. I guess its easier to focus on something easy than it is to tackle some real problems.
"Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his pants for his friends."
Enchantress is my Goddess.
Few survive in the Heart of Fury...
Gamebanshee: [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/"]Make your gaming scream![/url]
Originally posted by Gruntboy I can think of a whole host of countries that have unlicensed access to firearms. We tried taking them of the Somalis, for example, and that didn't work. I guess its easier to focus on something easy than it is to tackle some real problems.
It isn't a case of taking firearms off countries, I can't recall ever suggesting that, what I do think is that there should be more understanding of why a six year old boy decided to shoot a six year old girl. Just pushing the conversation under the carpet really isn't going to change anything. Just as me talking about it on the interenet really isn't going to change anything but at least it provides food for thought.
I'd have to get drunk every night and talk about virility...And those Pink elephants I'd see.
Originally posted by Gruntboy I guess its easier to focus on something easy than it is to tackle some real problems.
By all means Grunty, we can swing the discussion that way if you honestly want to. Removing guns from countries which are home to instability is no less different then the desire to stop the under age sex trade operating in Eastern Europe and South East Asia nor is it different then stopping the spread of drugs from the Triads and Cartels operating all over the world. However I don't know enough of those problems to start a mature discussion in ending those blights.
What I'm trying to say is that, I don't view it as tackling something easy as you stated but rather as a stepping stone to understanding the problem on a global scale. Why focus on America? Because of the large amount of information available from that country to analyse and debate upon.
It was great- and although with me it's saying almost nothing- best documentry I've ever seen.
My notes are bsicaly in chronological order- the order in which I wrote them down.
At the start it seemed like a big joke- with the 'It's an American's responsibility to be armed' and the hillarious Chris Rock clip, but once it got to John nichols it set the tone.
It was so unsettling to me to have this conversation with one of the three men involoved in the Oklahoma City bombings- and also a man who hadn't heard of Gandhi's method of fighting!
I have a scribbled note here 'Can't tell what's real'- because for a good part of the first half, I wasn't sure if these people are for real- like the kid who was expelled for '380 days, or 165- whatever the school year is' or the guy who made napalm in his house, but as you move on it really developes a heart for the victims.
The montages were extremely well done, with the ironic music and footage for all these events.
The first one was the most unsettling- all these CIA or USA sponsership of dictators and terrorists, set to 'What a wonderful world', ending with the second September 11th plane hitting the tower.
Also having Beethoven's 9th in a montage of bowling, then massaceres, dictators, Nazis, as in Clockwork Orange.
I have never seen the Columbine footage before, so it was really scary with the security cameras and police transmitions, with the media butting in to get a story.
The interviews were great- mainly when Moore wiped the floor with Heston, but the Trey Parker and Marylin Manson interviews were great on both sides.
I honestly couldn't believe the security company video- with the kid taking something like 20 guns off of his person, and wanting to impose a dress code.
I loved the idea of the 'Corporate cops' TV show.
I think he was very wise in not revealing who the interviewies were untill afterwards- that puts everything into perspective, like negatively with Nichols, or very positively with the mayor of toronto.
I was really surprised, as Moore was about the Wallmart anouncment. It show that film makers could make a difference.
Heston was pathetic. Moore held his ground and much more through-out, but, although it is effective, I felt that chasing him with the picture was a bit too tacky.
What was left with me most of all were the numbers. I don't recall them exactly- but something like 350 in Germany, 250 in Australia and New Zealand, 68 in Britain, 65 in Canada and upward of 11,500 in the US.
A superbly well done film. I really want to see 'Roger and I'.
That's 2 superb films on 2 great evenings! (I saw Catch me if you can last night)
"Veni,Vidi,vici!"
(I came,I saw,I conquered!) Julius Ceasar
I'd like to see this movie, I haven't even heard of it...
I read once about a radio program that was interviewing a cub scout master. He was talking about the kinds of things the troop did for learning experiences. One of them was, the scout master would take the troop to the shooting range and the kids would learn how to shoot at targets. Well, this woman called up the station and started blasting the guy. "Teaching our children to handle dangerous deadly weapons", etc. He very calmly replied, "When we take the kids to the shooting range, we teach them gun safety. We teach them how to be responsible and how to respect the gun so they DON'T ever end up hurting anyone." Undaunted (and probably unhearing), the woman pressed on: "Don't you realize you're equipping these children to become violent killers?!"
Response: "You're equipped to become a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?"
It all comes down to choice then, doesn't it?
I'm no rah-rah gun-toter, but I also believe that if gun ownership were outlawed tomorrow, nothing would change. People would get them somehow. If not, they'd use crossbows. Don't laugh. A whole family was struck down by a guy with a crossbow a few years back. People will throw knives or anything else they can get hold of if they want to kill someone. Or they can make a bomb in their basement using household products and handy instructions from the internet.
I heard it in a movie once: "Before kingdoms can change, men must change."
"I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."
"So do all who live to see such times; but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you."
Originally posted by Mr Sleep Did you like the cartoon, I thought that was hilarious.
How do you take your notes, do you have a little light and clipboard thing or do you have cat like vision to see in the dark?
The cartoon was great.
I almost always forget to bring my notebook, so normaly I take a couple of postcards at the entrance and write down with out looking my thoughts, then during the break I copy them down on the second post card legibly. Although, I still usualy loose about a tenth of my comments to bad hand writing.
You chould see my Catch me post cards- it literaly looks like bad hierogliphics. Still, I managed to salvage all but one comment, which I remembered today.
Normaly when I watch a movie on my PC or TV I have a notebook, in which I put down any lines, scenes, shots or acting I want to remember and anything I want to check out on imdb. In every single case I read Ebert's review, who I agree with 85% of the time. Unlike the idiot Maltin . I only started this last year, so I just last month started my third notebook.
"Veni,Vidi,vici!"
(I came,I saw,I conquered!) Julius Ceasar
Well outside of Gamebanshee, Ive never heard of this movie, and neither has the public.
It is merely 37th in the charts, and has been release for 17 weeks, yet has only accumulated 17.9 M dollars...a decent amount but not much for something thats been out that long.
But the critics loved it. Got 95% of the critics to like it, and thats a very hard percentage to get. Thats impressive. And while critics may be over rated, getting that high a percentage is impressive.
Heres a link to what the critics had to say about "Bowling for Columbine".
“Caw, Caw!” The call of the wild calls you. Are you listening? Do you dare challenge their power? Do you dare invade? Nature will always triumph in the end.
[color=sky blue]I know that I die gracefully in vain. I know inside detiorates in pain.[/color]-Razed in Black
Originally posted by Tybaltus It is merely 37th in the charts, and has been release for 17 weeks, yet has only accumulated 17.9 M dollars...a decent amount but not much for something thats been out that long.
Maybe, but are you taking into account the number of screens the movie has actually been showing on? Documentary features hardly get six showings a day at the local multiplex. For this kind of movie, it has actually been pretty successful... perhaps more overseas than in the US. It has become the most successful documentary feature in Australia.
Anyway, I finally got around to seeing it the other day, and I have to agree that it's an excellent movie... regardless of whether certain statistics might be accurate. What's interesting is that nobody can explain why America has such a high rate of gun crime... all of the suggested reasons are present in other countries.
Also, I think the subject is something that I want to be aware of, because it's not just about America - the amount of gun crime in the UK is rising as well, and understanding the situation in America could help to address the problems in the UK. Discussing the issue is hardly picking on America.
