The Sports Bar

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:29 pm

Zetterberg won't be traded, as long as he keeps playing the way he does. I won't be surprised if he takes the rookie award this year. This is all part of Detroit's, success, though. They have a great mixture of young and old talent, working together, and players like Zetterberg are the result.

Karembeu · Post by **Karembeu** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 4:22 am

Originally posted by Minerva
Yeah, what a shame. Anyway, good luck to them... NOT!

I hope New Castle will win for Sir Bobby.

Lol...well I'm not that particularly fond of Man U either....

"Man U" here and "Man U" there....it just does my head in....

Newcastle were close....2-2 away against Inter is a strong result...can't believe Alan Shearer still hasn't lost his touch.

Originally posted by Bloodmist
Barcelona - Leverkusen (3-1)
Inter - Newcastle (2-2)
Arsenal - Rome (2-1)
Ajax - Valencia (0-2)

That's what I'd say

Pretty good predictions, amazed that you got the Inter vs Newcastle game...

Final results were:
Barcelona - Leverkusen 2-0
Inter - Newcastle 2-2
Arsenal - Roma 1-1
Ajax - Valencia 1-1

Tonights match-ups are: (predictions in brackets)

Real Madrid - Milan (1-1)

Dortmund - Lok Moscow (2-1)

Juventus - Deportivo (2-1)

Man United - Basel (4-2)

Bloodmist · Post by **Bloodmist** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 7:16 am

Originally posted by Karembeu
Pretty good predictions, amazed that you got the Inter vs Newcastle game...

But I was way off with Leverkusen, they certanly lost their touch

Real Madrid - Milan (1-0)

Dortmund - Lok Moscow (3-1)

Juventus - Deportivo (2-1) I agree with you there.

Man United - Basel (3-0) Basel doesn't stand a chance

Bloodmist · Post by **Bloodmist** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:20 am

Originally posted by Bloodmist
Man United - Basel (4-0) Basel doesn't stand a chance

If I may, I'd like to change this to 3-0

Karembeu · Post by **Karembeu** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:22 am

Originally posted by Bloodmist
If I may, I'd like to change this to 3-0

Sure, whatever....it really doesn't matter anyway as the score will be 4-2....

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:35 am

Well here were yesterday's scores:

Ray gets back into his rhythm...penalty rhythm that is...but OTT defeats Bruins 4-3 in OT.

What happens when number 1 in the devision faces a last place team?
This: DAL-2 COL-0

BUT...
ATL-3 NJ-2

EDM gets back on track, even without Carter, defeating...well...the Flames....better then nothing, I suppose

EDM-5 CLG-2

VAN survives a close one with a contraversial missed goal on NYI
VAN-4 NYI-3

Johnson still has job and plays well...
STL-4 SJ-2

Today's games: CAR vs BUF, LA vs TB, NAS vs PIT, MTL vs FLA, DAL vs MIN, DET vs PHO, CHI vs ANA

In NBA-Big surprise...It was Bull Run vs the Lakers....CHI rolls over the unimpressive Lakers...

In College Hoops: Knight so unimpressed about how he's coached his Red Raiders of Texas Tech, he has decided to not accept his salary this year. He told Texas Tech to put the money to use somewhere more deserving.

To see how the brackets look at this moment in time check this out

Bloodmist · Post by **Bloodmist** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:53 pm

Originally posted by Karembeu
Sure, whatever....it really doesn't matter anyway as the score will be 4-2....

You just wait and see. My über predict1n' skillz will rul3!

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:28 pm

I loved the Afc Ajax vs Valencia game!

Ajax is THE soccer team of the moment.
They are young and they are learning from every game. They showed that against Valencia. The first game Ajax had a hard time but this time Ajax was by far the best.

Ajax deserved 3 points.

If it wasn't for that sissy %$^&* faking a penalty!

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:36 pm

Don't forget the HUGE chance Carew missed, and the shot by Albelda that almost hit the net. Being a good team isn't about possesion of the ball, it is about creating chances and scoring. And that is something Ajax isn't that good at.

And if they were THE soccer team of the moment, why is it that PSV is miles ahead of them in the national league.

No, sorry, I have to disagree with you Rob-hin. They are THE team at the moment, the team of luck....

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:40 pm

The matches start in 5 minutes, a late prediction:

Real Madrid - Milan (1-1)

Dortmund - Lok Moscow (2-0)

Juventus - Deportivo (2-2)

Man United - Basel (3-1)

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 1:59 pm

Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
Don't forget the HUGE chance Carew missed, and the shot by Albelda that almost hit the net. Being a good team isn't about possesion of the ball, it is about creating chances and scoring. And that is something Ajax isn't that good at.

And if they were THE soccer team of the moment, why is it that PSV is miles ahead of them in the national league.

No, sorry, I have to disagree with you Rob-hin. They are THE team at the moment, the team of luck....

Ajax missed some huge chances as wel. Less then Valencia in the first half but waaaay more then Valencia in the second half.
The second half was completely for Ajax, and Valencia tried hard anyway! Ajax out classed Valencia on all fronts IMO.

Ajax showed that they have induividual qualities as well as working as a team. Granted that they still need to learn to use that small change and scoor. But they do have the quality to create the chances, putting them in then net will follow. The return of Van der Vaart will pay of. He didn't play very well the last game. But thats normal since he's been out for that long.

PSV may still be ahead in the cometition, but it's not over yet.
We'll see what happends...

But you saying that Ajax is the team of luck is just wrong.
You know it, I know it.

Ajax is just hard to beat, and they prove it against Arsenal two times now. (This is probably bothering you

)

They are putting Dutch teams on the map again.

Edit:
Forgot this
What I ment with "THE team" is this; keep your eye on them. They are not yet the best team out there YET, but they are fun to watch and I think they will surprise Europe soon.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 6:16 pm

Some baseball news...and all of it serious...

Jose Mesa vs Omar Vizquel-A friendship gone horribly, horribly wrong...
Friends when they were teammates from '92-'98, until now....

Omar Vizquel published a book that talked negatively of Jose Mesa, but thats not the end of it...Jose Mesa responded:

"If I face him, I'll hit him," Mesa told Bucks County Courier Times. "I won't try to hit him in the head, but I'll hit him. And if he charges me, I'll kill him." -Jose Mesa

MLB is looking into the situation...

Story can be found here

In other baseball news...

Red Sox Batting coach Tony Cloninger may have cancer.

That story can be found here

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Wed Mar 12, 2003 9:48 pm

Well Hockey isnt the only sport thats going trade crazy right now...

Tikeo Spikes to BUF-CIN has no defense anymore....

But the Bengals increase offensive ability getting TE Kelly from Falcons.

Raiders get Stubblefield

Cards get SB MVP Dexter Jackson and Jeff Blake

Pats get Harrison and Roosevelt Colvin

Skins sign WR Laverneous Coles, and Jets have 1 week to match offer.

Vikings sign free agent CB Denard Walker

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:05 am

Originally posted by Rob-hin
Ajax missed some huge chances as wel. Less then Valencia in the first half but waaaay more then Valencia in the second half.
The second half was completely for Ajax, and Valencia tried hard anyway! Ajax out classed Valencia on all fronts IMO.

Sorry but I can only recall 2 huge chances of Ajax. The goal and the shot of Maxwell that went over. Besides that Ajax only had some minor opportunities.

Ajax showed that they have induividual qualities as well as working as a team.

I have to agree with you on this point. With Pienaar, Van Der Vaart and Chivu (and may be De Jong), Ajax has players of potential World Class.

Granted that they still need to learn to use that small change and scoor. But they do have the quality to create the chances, putting them in then net will follow.

Don't forget that scoring goals is a quality you have to possess. It is not something that will come with expierence. Why do you think clubs are (were) spending 85% of their transfer funds on good strikers? Because they don't have a good striker and it can not be learned to score goals.
Why is it that the (most) best goalkeepers, defenders and midfielders are about 26-32 and the good strikers are 18-33?. Because a young striker is already good at a young age, because he doesn't need expierence.
And with Zlatan, Ajax hasn't got a good striker....and Ajax will never be able to afford themselves a good striker, because they are expensive. Taking in account that Ajax has selled their only talented striker (Nando Rafael), makes it that Ajax will not be able to hold up with other European teams in the long run.

PSV may still be ahead in the cometition, but it's not over yet.
We'll see what happends...

You seriously don't believe Ajax can still catch up PSV, do you? That would be pretty naive. Even if Ajax wins in Eindhoven, they are still 4 or 5 points behind. Taking in account that PSV has won their last 11 games....PSV will be this year's champions

But you saying that Ajax is the team of luck is just wrong.
You know it, I know it.

Then why is it that since 30 or 40 years on of the most common nicknames of the club is "lucky Ajax"? You should have observed some of the situations in Ajax-Valencia where, due to sheer luck, Carew or Albelda or Baraja weren't one-on-one with Lobont.

Ajax is just hard to beat, and they prove it against Arsenal two times now. (This is probably bothering you )

Ajax is hard to beat....that's true, and that is the only reason they are still in the Champions League. Not because they are powered enough to win a bunch of games (they win occasionally)
And about Arsenal....that's is about the only club in England that I don't support. May be if they were in the final against a German or Italian team...yeah I would support them. But against a Dutch team? No. I supported neither of them in those games. In fact I wacthed the matches on the Belgium channel...Man Utd! And Newcastle!!!

They are putting Dutch teams on the map again.

True.

Edit:
Forgot this
What I ment with "THE team" is this; keep your eye on them. They are not yet the best team out there YET, but they are fun to watch and I think they will surprise Europe soon.

Ajax, fun to watch? No sorry m8, it is about the most boring team to watch at the moment in the Champions League. The only reason they are fun to watch for you is that you support them and they are Dutch. Last Saturday I watched Celtic-Rangers on the BBC.....now THAT is fun to watch!

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:07 am

Back to hockey...

The Leafs got Gilmour back, and we got Nolan too.

We're gonna kick ass this year.

Karembeu · Post by **Karembeu** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:16 am

Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
Why is it that the (most) best goalkeepers, defenders and midfielders are about 26-32 and the good strikers are 18-33?. Because a young striker is already good at a young age, because he doesn't need expierence.

Nah, sorry I'd have to disagree with this. I'd say experience is just as important for a striker. True, they may "break-through" at a younger age but I'd say it's just as common with midfielders, defenders and goalkeepers. Only reason for all the "attention" that young strikers get is that focus in football lies on scoring goals.

Experience is what makes the difference for players like Alan Shearer and Dennis Bergkamp.

Last nights results:

Real Madrid - Milan 3-1
Dortmund - Lok Moscow 3-0
Juventus - Deportivo 3-2
Man United - Basel 1-1

Bloodmist · Post by **Bloodmist** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:32 am

Originally posted by Karembeu
Real Madrid - Milan 3-1
Dortmund - Lok Moscow 3-0

That was a bit unpredictable... dammit!

Dortmund - Lok Moscow (3-1) I was....so...close

I have to say, Moscow didn't play like they could have played. They didn't even have the ball

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:00 am

Originally posted by Karembeu
Experience is what makes the difference for players like Alan Shearer and Dennis Bergkamp.

No sorry, I have to diasgree with you. Shearer scores as many goals as he did when he still played for Blackburn (may be he scored even more then). Bergkamp was as at the age of 20 as good in scoring goals as he is now. The only difference with Bergkamp at the age of 33 is that he is technically better (more assist and neat actions). The 'football'-part of him is better, not the goalscoring part.....just the same as in his early days.

What makes the difference for players like Shearer and Bergkamp is that they have proven that they can play good and score goals over a longer period of time. That's why they are considered 'world class' players and some 19 or 20 year old still has to 'prove' himself, while he might be as good in scoring goals as this older players.

For defenders on the other hand, expierence IS important, and for goalkeepers even more. Consider the best goalkeepers in the world look at their ages. The take a look at the best stikers ages, you'll see a major difference in age....

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:03 am

lol, nice little discussion

Experience is very important!
A joung player has many things on his mind other then soccer. They are still trying to find their way and combine it with their own oppinion. In other words, they are still trying to find themselves bolth on and off the field.

Almost every player in Ajax has show that they are growing. They find balance. I think this is very important.
Just look at their first and last mach so far in the champions league.

If experience wasn't important, then why even bother training?

IMO, experiance is one of the most important things in life. (on any field) It's important that you listen to people who know what they are talking about. Naturally you need the talent to build om and turn a good player into a great player. But thats a learning process.

So to conclude:
Ajax has players with the potential to scoor, and they need to build on this. Ibramhovish (bah names

) isn't the next world superstar but he's ok for now. Ajax has a need for a goal getter.

Ajax, fun to watch? No sorry m8, it is about the most boring team to watch at the moment in the Champions League. The only reason they are fun to watch for you is that you support them and they are Dutch. Last Saturday I watched Celtic-Rangers on the BBC.....now THAT is fun to watch

Obiously a game is more fun whan you support a team on the field, thats the same for everyone. But I did find the game interesting. Not so much of the "many" super duper opportinuties, but more for the 'ping pong effect' and seeing the team growing.

You seriously don't believe Ajax can still catch up PSV, do you? That would be pretty naive. Even if Ajax wins in Eindhoven, they are still 4 or 5 points behind. Taking in account that PSV has won their last 11 games....PSV will be this year's champions

I never said that.

Nah, season's pretty much over with. But you need to think positive!

Karembeu · Post by **Karembeu** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:40 am

Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
For defenders on the other hand, expierence IS important, and for goalkeepers even more. Consider the best goalkeepers in the world look at their ages. The take a look at the best stikers ages, you'll see a major difference in age....

The reason for goalkeepers being older is because they can last longer. Nothing funny about that.
But still I did as you told me, and compared the ages of the number one goalie and top striker in a few top teams (three english, three spanish and three italian) in the Champion's League....I didn't see a major difference....?!?

Gianluigi Buffon born 1978
Alessandro Del Piero born 1974

Francesco Toldo born 1971
Christian Vieri born 1973

Christian Abbiati born 1977
Rivaldo born 1972

Shay Given born 1976
Alan Shearer born 1970

Fabien Barthez born 1971
Ruud van Nistelrooy born 1976

David Seaman born 1966
Thierry Henry born 1977

Roberto Bonano born 1970
Patrick Kluivert born 1976

Juan Miguel Garcia born 1971
Roy Makaay born 1975

Iker Casillas born 1980
"Ronaldo" born 1976

This only showes that good players come in all ages.
True, Alan Shearer scores as many goals now as he did before. But as his physical condition might not be what it was 10 years ago, experience plays a part...
The same goes for Dennis Bergkamp. He might not be the "goal-machine" he once was, but as you stated "the football part of him is better"....and how could it be?!? Why through experience of course....

Alan Shearer and Dennis Bergkamp aren't playing because they have proven themselves before, they're still playing because they are good players....

Damn, I just love talking football....