The Sports Bar

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:41 am

Re: lol, nice little discussion

Originally posted by Rob-hin
If experience wasn't important, then why even bother training?

Don´t confuse expierence with improving talent you already have. That is something totally different.... Expierence is like a new talent. And you don't get that by training...
Training is also important for other things, like trying new tactics for the team etc.
Off course expierence is important in other facets of life (gee, it's getting all philosofical), but in goalscoring is it nothing compared to sheer talent.

So to conclude:
Ajax has players with the potential to scoor, and they need to build on this. Ibramhovish (bah names ) isn't the next world superstar but he's ok for now. Ajax has a need for a goal getter.

I already explained that is what they're lacking and that is what they won't have for the next couple of years...a goalscorer. Simply because their talented goalscorer Nando Rafael isn't with Ajax anymore and they cannot afford a good striker.

Obiously a game is more fun whan you support a team on the field, thats the same for everyone.

No sorry not true. I enjoyed the Celtic-Rangers match more than NAC-De Graafschap where I was present. It totally depends on the game. You only choose the team you support because you like the way they play in overall, that does not mean you like every single game they play....

Karembeu · Post by **Karembeu** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:59 am

Re: Re: lol, nice little discussion

Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
No sorry not true. I enjoyed the Celtic-Rangers match more than NAC-De Graafschap where I was present. It totally depends on the game. You only choose the team you support because you like the way they play in overall, that does not mean you like every single game they play....

Actually I guess it's different from person to person. The teams I support I support not because they play the "best football" but because of completetly different reasons.

Thank God not everyone supports Man United although they may kick the ball around in great fashion....

I do know that Minerva has a soft spot for Man U....

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:59 am

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rob-hin
If experience wasn't important, then why even bother training?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don´t confuse expierence with improving talent you already have. That is something totally different.... Expierence is like a new talent. And you don't get that by training...
Training is also important for other things, like trying new tactics for the team etc.
Off course expierence is important in other facets of life (gee, it's getting all philosofical), but in goalscoring is it nothing compared to sheer talent.

I was just joking.

Training makes you able to use your talant in the right way.

I already explained that is what they're lacking and that is what they won't have for the next couple of years...a goalscorer. Simply because their talented goalscorer Nando Rafael isn't with Ajax anymore and they cannot afford a good striker.

Then I guess we agree!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obiously a game is more fun whan you support a team on the field, thats the same for everyone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No sorry not true. I enjoyed the Celtic-Rangers match more than NAC-De Graafschap where I was present. It totally depends on the game. You only choose the team you support because you like the way they play in overall, that does not mean you like every single game they play....

Wel... d'uh.
Off cource the game is more fun when it's an interesting, good game. But like I said, if you have 2 good games; Ajax (for me) vs blabla and unknown team vs unknown team. Then everyone enjoys the game of their team more. Simply because of the connection you have with that team.
Obviously they can play dull games too. Those games you forget asap.

BUT (yes there is more

)
Almost everyone picks a team when they are just a kid. A lott of the time they pick teams that their friends or people they look up to chear for, or a team thats winning a lott at the time. You don't think of the way they play in overall as deep at that age.

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 7:17 am

Originally posted by Karembeu
I didn't see a major difference....?!?

Well, I do. Take a look at this:

Juve: not Del Piero, but Di Vaio is their goalscorer, Del Piero is more an attacking midfielder, and Not Abbiati, but Dida is the first goalkeeper of AC Milan: And Rivaldo is no their goalscorer, but Shevchenko is. And I doubt Kluivert is the goalscorer for Barcelona. Saviola is the man for that job, so:
Di Vaio('76)-Buffon= -2
Vieri-Toldo= +2
Shevchenko('76)-Dida('73)= +3
Shearer-Given= -4
Van Nistelrooy-Barthez= +5
Seaman-Henry= +11
Saviola('81)-Bonano= +11
Makaay-Juanmi= +4
Cassillas-Ronaldo= -4
Total=26. So on the average the goalkeepers are approximately 3 years older. And we have not even considered Bayern Munich and the like, where Kahn (considered best goalkeeper in the world) is long past his 30th birthday. And the actual first goalie for Deportiva is Molina and he is even 1 year older then Juanmi.

The same goes for Dennis Bergkamp. He might not be the "goal-machine" he once was, but as you stated "the football part of him is better"....and how could it be?!? Why through experience of course....

That is exactly what I stated before. The football part of him has improved grealty through the years, and the goalscoring part not. The football-part improving depends grealty upon expienrence, while the goalscoring part is only very, very slighlty depended upon xp.

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 7:27 am

Originally posted by Rob-hin
BUT (yes there is more )
Almost everyone picks a team when they are just a kid. A lott of the time they pick teams that their friends or people they look up to chear for, or a team thats winning a lott at the time. You don't think of the way they play in overall as deep at that age.

Not nessecarily (sp??

):
I supported PSV when I was young (indeed because of friends and/or relatives). But since I was 9 or 10 I support NAC.
I used to support The Dutch Team (so called Oranje), but since a year or 5 to 6 I support all British national squads...they rock

. And I did that, because the way they play attracts me. Hard working, no nonsense...

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 7:31 am

Like I said.
Almost everyone.

Karembeu · Post by **Karembeu** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:11 am

Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
So on the average the goalkeepers are approximately 3 years older.

Well the day David Seaman quits it should be about even...

Seriously though 3 years isn't a "major" difference. And scoring less goals doesn't mean you're a bad or not as good striker.
If this was the case then I guess someone like Gerd Müller would be considered the best striker ever.

And actually Del Piero has scored 5 goals more then Di Vaio so far this season and Kluivert has scored more goals then Saviola, and Rivaldo has scored more goals then Schevchenko....which means your "goalscorers" must be doing a bad job....

Experience means a lot, even so for strikers. Being at the right spot at the right time, knowing when to pass and when to shoot. Through experience we learn. Which means there might still be hope for Zlatan Ibrahimovic....

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:13 am

Tailspin?

Two losses in a row for the Gold and Purple. Pistons clobbered the Lakers snapping a 9-game losing streak to LA @ Detroit.

Billups had his pistons running real good today...

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:31 am

Originally posted by Karembeu

Seriously though 3 years isn't a "major" difference. And scoring less goals doesn't mean you're a bad or not as good striker.
If this was the case then I guess someone like Gerd Müller would be considered the best striker ever.

And actually Del Piero has scored 5 goals more then Di Vaio so far this season and Kluivert has scored more goals then Saviola, and Rivaldo has scored more goals then Schevchenko....which means your "goalscorers" must be doing a bad job....

3 years is a major difference. Taken into account that a soccer career is only 10-15 year max. it is a difference of about 20% to 30%, so it IS a major difference.

About Di Vaio....Van Der Vaart isn't Ajax' striker, but he is topscorer. About Kluivert....hard to tell why, but I have never considered him a real striker, more an attacking midfielder. But you can argue about that, I know. About Shevchenko....he was injured for a couple of months at the start of the season.

About scoring less and being a good striker:
a defender is a bad defender when strikers keep scoring against him right? And a keeper that fails everytime with high balls (like Seaman) is a bad keeper right? So a striker who plays in a good team, but doesn't score, is a bad striker. That's the main reason why he is on the pitch. So yeah, Gerd Müller is one of the greatest strikers ever.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:33 am

Originally posted by Nightmare
Back to hockey...

The Leafs got Gilmour back, and we got Nolan too. We're gonna kick ass this year.

I agree...back to hockey!

The daily scoreboard:
CAR gets a bit of redemption for an otherwise abysmal year...
3-2 over BUF

TB continues its surprising breakthrough year:
4-2 over LA

NAS wastes golden oppurtunity against the disappointing Penguins
2-2

MTL proves they are alive and well
4-0 over FLA

MIN shows muscle over the #1 Stars
4-2 over DAL

PHO shows up and plays well, but Schnieder and Wings too much for them
3-2 Detroit over PHO

ANA handles CHI pretty well
5-2 ANA wins

College Hoops:
So Miss shocks the Bearcats, as the Golden Eagles advance in the C-USA tournament

Seton Hall looks like a safe bid in the tourney as theyve won 10 straight, recently taking out the Hurricaines of Miami. Next up is Connecticut...good luck

Weber St. gets automatic Tourney bid as they oust Eastern Washington in the Big Sky division

Notre Dame gets shocked as St. Johns makes its big East run. St Johns has to win the entire Big East tournament to go to the big dance...theyve got Boston College next.

Here are the schools that have a guarenteed spot in the tourney because theyve won their devisions:

Troy State
NC Asheville
Austin Peay
E. Tennessee State
Pennsylvania
UNC Wilmington
Creighton
Manhattan
San Diego
Milwaukee-Wis.
Western Kentucky
IUPUI
Wagner
Weber State

Bloodmist · Post by **Bloodmist** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 9:41 am

Originally posted by Tybaltus
I agree...back to hockey!

Heathens. You will see the light some day.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:12 am

Originally posted by Bloodmist
Heathens. You will see the light some day.

Please. Hockey's the only real sport. come on, it takes a lot of guts to skate around on ice, whapping a frozen puck at a solitary goaltender's head

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:33 am

Originally posted by Aegis
Please. Hockey's the only real sport. come on, it takes a lot of guts to skate around on ice, whapping a frozen puck at a solitary goaltender's head

Right...you HAVE to respect the people who play hockey...

There are 4 sports that demand a lot from the player, physically and mentally...

Hockey
American Football
Rugby
Auto Racing

And you cant deny that any of those fall short of it...if you do, you obviously dont know enough about the sport to argue.

In other news:

A huge brawl in the Mets/Dodgers spring training game when Guiermo Mota plunked Mike Piazza in the shoulder...this echoes what Mota did last year in spring training. Piazza sharged the mound and Mota defended himself by hurling his baseball glove at the charging Piazza.

Piazza was detained by Mota's team mates, but then Jeromy Burnitz went out like a mad dog at Mota. He threw his over-sized arms right at Mota, but Mota kept backpeddling until he made it to the dugout where he ran like mad.

People are calling Mota a coward...I call him smart.

Still, there have been lots of brawls for spring training this season...its odd, but cool.

Maybe Baseball will become like hockey....brawls left and right!

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:35 am

Originally posted by Aegis
Please. Hockey's the only real sport. come on, it takes a lot of guts to skate around on ice, whapping a frozen puck at a solitary goaltender's head

You made me even less interested in Hockey now...

OK, it sounds as if I was remotely interested in it in the first place....

@Bloodmist: No, they will never see the light. They are Americans (and a Canadian, if you count Aegis in).

Bloodmist · Post by **Bloodmist** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:53 am

Originally posted by Minerva
@Bloodmist: No, they will never see the light. They are Americans (and a Canadian, if you count Aegis in).

LOL. A sad situation indeed.

@Tyb, Soccer is very demanding physically too. Being on the field for 90 minutes with only one break is very exhausting. Especially for if you're a very hard working midfielder or forward. Might not get as many punches as a hockey player, but in hockey they've got many subs. Thereby not saying that it's not demanding. I know it is, I've played it.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 10:58 am

BM, you forget to mention the team only allowed to do substitution 2 times

Bloodmist · Post by **Bloodmist** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:04 am

Originally posted by KidD01
BM, you forget to mention the team only allowed to do substitution 2 times

Sorry, in soccer the team is only allowed to make 3 substitutions. Thanks KidD

Matches to come

Milan - Dortmund (1-1)

Lok. Moskva - Real Madrid (0-3)

Basel - Juventus (1-2)

D.La Coruna - Man. United (2-2)

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:09 am

Originally posted by Bloodmist
@Tyb, Soccer is very demanding physically too. Being on the field for 90 minutes with only one break is very exhausting. Especially for if you're a very hard working midfielder or forward. Might not get as many punches as a hockey player, but in hockey they've got many subs. Thereby not saying that it's not demanding. I know it is, I've played it.

Sounds like auto racing except soccer lasts for 90 minutes less....I dont think it quite makes the cut to the elite class

And Football and Rugby make it because injuries are so common, and it has the highest ratio of injured players in sports that arent extreme.

Hockey...well, youre on the ice, and everyone on the other team wants you to lose your jaw...yeah...and thats just ONE thing...The sport itself requires much skill and endurance.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:10 am

Well my failing memory..........

The only I game I love is derby games.

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:10 am

CELTIC vs LIVERPOOL!! Don't forget the big match tonight!