Please note that new user registrations disabled at this time.

Dark Flame Discussion Thread III (no spam)

Anything goes... just keep it clean.
User avatar
Galuf the Dwarf
Posts: 3160
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:00 am
Location: Connecticut, a place of open land, hills, forests,
Contact:

Post by Galuf the Dwarf »

Originally posted by Scayde
Galuf...I think you are tinkering a bit too much with the main plot and the rest of the characters. I have given you permission to write Galdervan.....a character which I helped to create, and had been carrying......but in not doing your homework you have taken the name and used it for a completely different character than the one which I created...........that is fine........I gave him to you. But now you are talking about a major shift in the plot.......I do not think youa re familiar enough with the plot, the story, or the rest of the characters to undertake something this major. I know of only 4 writers in the DF who are........and I am not one of them . I would suggest you choose a more humble entrance than single handedly saving the DFs from the abomination and a planar rift. ....Perhaps just stumble into the cvern and start whacking away at some of the skeletal minions we are currently fighting..........and then introduce yourself. I will be more than happy to pick Galdervan back up....since he is a bit of a side kick to Scayde ;-)


I have been considering that approach as much. The thing is, I'm wondering how far my character is from everyone else.

Suppose I should withdraw the whole idea then.
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
User avatar
dragon wench
Posts: 19609
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:00 pm
Location: The maelstrom where chaos merges with lucidity
Contact:

Post by dragon wench »

I concur with Scayde. I appreciate your sense of creativity Galuf, but you are tinkering considerably with the plot in the above-mentioned plans. Maybe, since you had Galdervan appear in your last post, you could have him lead you to the DFs, and as Scayde suggests, there are a few hordes of undead that require attention :)

Once we are back at the surface, whenever that happens, the storyline may become a bit more free-flowing. However, our current plans have been in effect for quite some time. Throwing so huge a shift into the main plot could be extremely problematic.

Again, I really recommend that, at the very least, you take the time to read Book Five in its entirety. This ought to provide you with a fuller comprehension of our characters, the complexities of this present juncture, and the DF as a whole.
Spoiler
testingtest12
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Spoiler
testingtest12
.......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.
User avatar
Scayde
Posts: 8739
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:05 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Scayde »

Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
I have been considering that approach as much. The thing is, I'm wondering how far my character is from everyone else.

Suppose I should withdraw the whole idea then.


For now that might be best. As far as where you are in comparison to everyone else...Galdervan has been with us the whole time......something has piqued his attention enough for him to clambor down off his perch and investigate....I would think that if this were the case then what ever it was (Galuf) is just a short way down the tunnel ahead. Perhaps in leading Galuf back to the group, the two of them could encounter the battle and join in the fighting of the skeletons in the main cavern just inside the large area where we are standing now. I would estimate that this is less than a couple hundred yards.

Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)

The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
User avatar
Galuf the Dwarf
Posts: 3160
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:00 am
Location: Connecticut, a place of open land, hills, forests,
Contact:

Post by Galuf the Dwarf »

And so I begin to see where I stand here.

Well, at this point, I think I will bring Galuf and Galdervan to the rescue, but afterwards have Galuf decide to go off on his own adventures, seeing himself somehow not fitting within the group.

Surprisingly, I'm starting to see such a profound reflection of my personal self in all this - a side character desiring to be a part of the big picture, part for self-fulfilling desires, but also to help make a difference for the sake of others. Perhaps I have not truly seen - or have been shown - the true qualities behind a supporting character. Don't the supporting characters, those that don't always become the most important characters in continuities, often help make good stories become what they are? I have often questioned that for years, having always been left to play minor roles in school plays. Something was missing from those experiences, something that would have made them more pleasant and honorable.

My hopes were to help motivate the plot so that it could help it come closer to conclusion, and, in the end, buy you all some time to relax, to add the finish that would help you all be able to rejoice in an end that brought a stunning finish. I wished to make this story shine, not be marred.

The question is, then, how much will (or should) my character play in all this? That may determine my next move on the chessboard that is the saga of the Dark Flame. This is where input is needed most. A revelation has come, but needs the translation of a witness.
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
User avatar
Scayde
Posts: 8739
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:05 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Scayde »

Re: And so I begin to see where I stand here.
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Well, at this point, I think I will bring Galuf and Galdervan to the rescue, but afterwards have Galuf decide to go off on his own adventures, seeing himself somehow not fitting within the group.



Could you elaborate a bit on this?

By coming to the rescue..what do you mean exactly?

We are ALL supporting characters...there are no uber heros, although because of the amount of time they have been involved and merit of experiences accrued some have become very powerful...T', Thantor, Simbul, DW...but no one is so baddass that they could single handedly save the day.

Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)

The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
User avatar
Bloodstalker
Posts: 15512
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2001 10:00 pm
Location: Hell if I know
Contact:

Post by Bloodstalker »

I agree with Scayde in that there are no real main or supporting characters. In my experience writing in the DF (Which is considerably less than a few of the others ;) ) the truth of it is the story is more about the interaction of the characters as a whole. Sure, there may be smaller sub-plots and backgrounds that each character works through, but those are usually related to that particular charaters background more than anything else.

As far as the major plotlines go, it's not a story geared to having any one character come out as a hero, or any one writer bringing those plotlines to a conclusion. The DF has always been in my view more about the collaboration of the authors and the characters working together to get through those types of things.

I don't think any character is any more or less important to the story. Some storylines have been going on for awhile, and as such, they may seem to involve some of the older writers more than the newer ones just due to the fact that us yougnin's weren't around when the plot started. In that sense, I tend to keep my own character more in the background of those plotlines and let the senior *cough * Gwally *cough* :p members take the lead.

That doesn't mean my character is any less involved, just that it doesn't make realistic sense to have a character come into a plot that has been in motion for months and take a center role in it. At the same time, it gave me time to flesh out my character a bit, and start to build some relationships between him and the other characters.It also gives everyone a chance to get to know the nature of your character, so that after awhile they will be able to more naturally work their posts to reflect yours when they interact with you.

The most interesting and rewarding part of writing in this kind of story lies more in the interaction of the characters, the comradrie between them, than in the actual battlesequences in my opinion anyway. That's the one reason I think so many people have suggested reading at least the current book. the heart of the DF is in the blending of the characters, and it would give you more of a feel for the way they have developed. :)
Lord of Lurkers

Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!
User avatar
Scayde
Posts: 8739
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:05 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Scayde »

Very well said BS... :)

Be careful, your wisdom is showing ;-)

Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)

The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
User avatar
Gwalchmai
Posts: 6252
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 11:00 am
Location: This Quintessence of Dust
Contact:

Post by Gwalchmai »

Do you guys realize that we entered the caverns on 4/22/2002 (real time) and that only a couple of days (story time) have passed since then? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I was searching for the old Character Description thread, but I wasn't able to find it. Does anyone remember where it is? I thought Galuf might like it.

Galuf: You never asked me about the Abomination! :p I surely would have told you this: It is the avatar of the dead god Moander, god of rot. It is essentially a great big heap of rotting flesh and vegetation with tentacles and other powers (per the Forgotten Realms description). Our arch-villain, the Shadow Master, used to be a cleric of Moander hundreds of years ago. He began to rise in power by murdering a priestess of Amaunator, then he later tempted his own god to make an appearance by murdering a minor fisherman's demi-goddess. When Moander's essence came to revel in the rotting of a deity’s body, the Shadow Master secretly stole some of Moander's essence to become a cleric-lich. Hence, the Shadow Master has lived on for hundreds of years. But now his power is waning, and he wishes to recreate his god by building an Abomination. But, does the SM merely wish to steal more of Moander's essence or does he truly wish to resurrect his god? Can Moander really be resurrected anyway? Well, the SM has enlisted the help of the Drow, who believe that Lloth has taken the portfolio of Moander. Its unclear if the Drow are willingly working with the SM or if the Drow are just playing along with him in order to ultimately betray him. Nevertheless, the Abomination is now large enough to begin to have sentience, and if it is unleashed upon the land, it will cause no end of destruction. The DFs wish to destroy it, but those darn Drow keep sending minions against them. Currently, it is skeletons. Oh, the humanity! :D
That there; exactly the kinda diversion we coulda used.
User avatar
Galuf the Dwarf
Posts: 3160
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:00 am
Location: Connecticut, a place of open land, hills, forests,
Contact:

Post by Galuf the Dwarf »

Re: Re: And so I begin to see where I stand here.
Originally posted by Scayde
Could you elaborate a bit on this?

By coming to the rescue..what do you mean exactly?

We are ALL supporting characters...there are no uber heros, although because of the amount of time they have been involved and merit of experiences accrued some have become very powerful...T', Thantor, Simbul, DW...but no one is so baddass that they could single handedly save the day.


Okay, here's what I mean.

1) Galdervan senses the trouble your group is in. After the gnome tells Galuf about his recent aquaintance with them, they decide that they better hurry if they're to give a hand, especially if there are more undead coming your way.

2) This is where Galuf's personality begins to shine. In an urgence to see to the welfare of these beset adventurers, he spends little time in getting going, hoisting Galdy up in his arms and running down corridors, Galdy acting as a navigator. Galuf does not wish to see anyone become a casualty, and so he takes the initiative, hoping to close the distance in time.

3) Along the way, they come upon what was a really unfortunate gray dwarf, one who is believed to have fallen victim to the Hook Horrors that tried to hunt him earlier. With some regret for seeing how savage the Underdark truly is, he takes the axe, shield and helmet off the corpse, and prays to Moradin for his soul to find peace.

4) Finally, though exhausted, the two reach the battle in time, even though the tide has started to turn a bit in your favor. Still, after seeing the unforgiving ravages of the great underground complex, and fearing that there would be a change in battle in favor of the undead, the flaming rage he felt before sets in again. The skeletal army meets the newest onset, as a flaming whirlwind of strange dwarven might is unleashed upon them. The undead continue to put up a vicious fight, weapons swinging, skeletons breaking, and

5) After about 20 minutes (which will include some material on your part, I don't doubt), the remaining ranks of the undead army spread out and seem to retreat, repulsed by what magic might has aided the Dark Flame in its fight. Galuf seemed to have helped to truly turn the tide, but only as a small splash. Galuf, his rage abaited but not fully debilitating him ends up introducing himself. However, he proves to be shy in the face of women. :o (This is where Galdy comes back under your literary control Scayde)

6) After a certain span of time (they could rest in the meantime, or whatever), it's decided to find a way out. Galuf thinks back to his days in his clan's mines, of the way his kin could always determine how far they were from the surface and which were the safe ways out. (Contribute where you can, of course)

7) When the group finally find their way out, Galuf is scene watching the horizon, in deep contemplation. A tear runs down one of his eyes, and he finally comes to a decision - he must find his own way through the world now. His journeys of self-discovery, and to aid many others in the realms, are his own. The most startling discovery that ratifies this decision is a mark that appears to be a flaming hammer over an anvil on his right forearm, one that nobody had ever seen before, not even himself. It is undoubtedly the symbol of Moradin, but the presence of the flame on the hammer is something that he must find the answer to. And so he bids his farewell, and leaves the Dark Flame to their own adventures. Galuf's chapter in the Order of the Dark Flame concludes, and his own adventures begin. (Still, the input of the DF characters are to take place between pieces of this).

Any comments? Suggestions?
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
User avatar
Yshania
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 10:00 pm
Location: Some Girls Wander By Mistake
Contact:

Post by Yshania »

Only that you hold up your horses until I - and other DF writers - have had a chance to read all of what is being said and had time to comment, thanks.

Other than Scayde and Gwally, at what point did you intend to involve the rest of the DF writers in your plans, Galuf? You seemed a little reluctant to post it here...

I apologise if I sound short, but there is a lot to catch up on. I will try to respond later.
Parachute for sale, like new! Never opened!
Guinness, black goes with everything.
User avatar
Scayde
Posts: 8739
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:05 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Scayde »

Are we about ready to engage the Abomination as soon as we dispatch with the skeletal minions?

Right now there are two posibilities for Nova..she can hear the comotion and return for the fight the DFs have entered with undead...or she can continue on and let it be assumed she is engaging the Abomination until the group catches up. The deciding factor would be timing .

Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)

The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
User avatar
Galuf the Dwarf
Posts: 3160
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:00 am
Location: Connecticut, a place of open land, hills, forests,
Contact:

Post by Galuf the Dwarf »

Originally posted by Yshania
Only that you hold up your horses until I - and other DF writers - have had a chance to read all of what is being said and had time to comment, thanks.

Other than Scayde and Gwally, at what point did you intend to involve the rest of the DF writers in your plans, Galuf? You seemed a little reluctant to post it here...

I apologise if I sound short, but there is a lot to catch up on. I will try to respond later.


At this point, I'm mainly looking to lend a hand with the skeletons, and then have Galuf go out on his own adventure story (yes, the promotional statement). Galuf's mainly going to be the helping hand in one situation, only to disappear for personal reasons. His character development requires writing of his own, at this point. So, regrettedly, I'm cutting his part in the Dark Flame saga short.

Look at it this way. Galuf can be seen like Kierstaad in the R. A. Salvatore book "Passage to Dawn". The young barbarian ends up being a temporary character that becomes a part of the sub plot of just that book, and is not a part of the major continuim (sp?). I'd hate to do this, but I guess that at this point it's the best that could happen.
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
User avatar
Yshania
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 10:00 pm
Location: Some Girls Wander By Mistake
Contact:

Post by Yshania »

Ok, before I go any further, I need to apologise for not having spent the time to quote individually, this post has taken me two hours as it is *eek* I would like to invite those who have not seen it to read at least the first couple of pages of this thread Community It has some very valid points by current and some past writers. It also gives a little insight into how each writer came to join the DF, and their feelings towards the community. I am partly to blame, I know, but it is a shame this thread descended to being a twin of the Discussion thread. Ideally, the one I have linked should have become the true discussion thread – as was intended – which was to be a place to thrash out ideas, or issues, from characters, to plot, to general ideas of advancing the story and maintaining and nurturing the special community we have all spent (sometimes too much) time building. The original Discussion thread, in which we write now, could then have been left as a socialising thread. Nevermind, I am rambling. But please take time to read the Community thread if you will, then you will get some sense on who we are, and what we feel about the DF.

First and foremost, it is fun :) a bit of escapism…but it has evolved over the years to become a more continuing and coherent story, with some wonderful character development and interaction, and has lead to some very real offline friendships. This is evident in a lot of the writing. This goes for the old and the new writers, we are all part of this project, we all commit what time and energy we have available to look after what has been created. We are all bit players, and apart from one or two characters, we are not uber, we are fallible, and it is this that demands our team work. Our strengths and weakness compliment each other, and I think this goes for our writing as much as our characters sometimes lol! :D

The purpose of the discussion threads, as DW rightly pointed out, is to exchange ideas, or offer/request edits where necessary. We have *all* contributed to advancing this story in one way or another, there *is* a plot line in place…I know it is frustrating for some of the existing writers sometimes – never mind newer writers with lots of energy to expend ;) – but it needs to grow at a pace that suits all of us, and the time and energy that we have to commit.

Galuf, I realise that some of the writers are no longer contributing, or haven’t for a while but intend to as soon as they can, but to accelerate the story without reference to these people I personally find a little disrespectful. Especially when it not only appears to be rushing us towards a conclusion we may not all be ready to get to, it is also rewriting what a few of us already have in mind, and a smaller few have spent more time developing for the rest of us.

If you are unsure as to what each person intends for their character, or indeed who are actively taking part, you could have posted in Discussion, or PM’d them directly. This also goes for the general plot. Have you read the whole of Book 5? If you could find the time, not only will you get to know some of the characters, and how they have evolved, but you will also get a little history into how and why we are where we are now. You might also come to appreciate the work we have put in so far. In fact, the plot starts much further back than Book 5, the nucleus of it began before I joined over two years ago now, but this episode is almost a year old itself now, in real time, but in itself I consider it a must read for new writers…

I do not want this post to sound like a rant, though it is probably too late for that now, but what is core to the existence of the DF is interaction, of the writers first and foremost, then of the characters in story. I welcome newcomers, new ideas are like a breath of fresh air, and I like very much what you have written so far – you are a talented writer! :) but this should be tempered with respect for the other writers…if we had an over uber character that could have coursed through the underdark alone, and in a day, and saved the world, where would the fun be? ;)
At this point, I'm mainly looking to lend a hand with the skeletons, and then have Galuf go out on his own adventure story (yes, the promotional statement). Galuf's mainly going to be the helping hand in one situation, only to disappear for personal reasons. His character development requires writing of his own, at this point. So, regrettedly, I'm cutting his part in the Dark Flame saga short.

Look at it this way. Galuf can be seen like Kierstaad in the R. A. Salvatore book "Passage to Dawn". The young barbarian ends up being a temporary character that becomes a part of the sub plot of just that book, and is not a part of the major continuim (sp?). I'd hate to do this, but I guess that at this point it's the best that could happen.


If your intent is to take Galuf off on his own adventures in another thread, then good luck to you :) but all the more reason for him not to advance the DF story out of time with the other writers.

That said, I would be more than happy for you to stay and share your skills - I like your character :D I like your energy, and ideas, and you are a fine writer!…all that irritated me was a seemingly disrespectful intent to change the plot, and involve characters without their consent. I apologise if I have misinterpreted your intent, I recognise you have a lot of creative energy and wish to use it, it is just I am away from the boards for a couple of days and see a major plot change possibly afoot.

There is nothing to stop you writing introspectively to further his development, outside of his interactions with the other DF, and there will be nothing to stop him having his own loosely linked adventures within the DF…so long as there is cohesion

Many of our characters have had introspective moments lol! And others have ventured out alone, it is only when writing in other characters are you asked to respect the author, and if you are intent on changing a major plot, to refer to the group as a whole, either in PM or publically in this thread, to involve them all.

Please don’t take my words as criticism of your writing or ideas, far from it! I am sadly not known for my diplomacy *sigh* I, for one, would like for you to consider continuing writing with us, and sharing your energy and ideas, but please bear with those of us who are a little behind sometimes, and please share your ideas with all who may be involved…


*sigh* so then I posted it and had too many emoticons, and had to try and remember the edits. Oh well...
Parachute for sale, like new! Never opened!
Guinness, black goes with everything.
User avatar
Scayde
Posts: 8739
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:05 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Scayde »

Galuf, I would second everything that Ysh has just said...

Reading the first few pages of the Community is certainly a must.

Reading ALL of at least book 5 is required homework.

Having said that....You have a lot of talent as a writer, and I was very happy to see your interest in joining the DFs. I do hope you consider staying on......but as Ysh, Gwally, DW, and BS have said....the thing that makes the DFs great is the character interaction. Since joining the DFs I have joined several other writer's groups which support an ongoing story and I can truly say, none come close to the intricacy of character developement and interaction that we enjoy in the DFs.....there is very much a chemistry, a symbiosis involved. It is that which makes this uch a wonderful and dynamic group to be involved with.

It is not about winning the game, it is all about how it is played ;-)

Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)

The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
User avatar
Yshania
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 10:00 pm
Location: Some Girls Wander By Mistake
Contact:

Post by Yshania »

Originally posted by Gwalchmai
Do you guys realize that we entered the caverns on 4/22/2002 (real time) and that only a couple of days (story time) have passed since then? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:


OMG!! Oh my! Now you say so...so much has happened in this time...I thought it only this year!
Parachute for sale, like new! Never opened!
Guinness, black goes with everything.
User avatar
Gwalchmai
Posts: 6252
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 11:00 am
Location: This Quintessence of Dust
Contact:

Post by Gwalchmai »

Originally posted by Yshania
OMG!! Oh my! Now you say so...so much has happened in this time...I thought it only this year!
Startling, isn't it? :eek: :D
That there; exactly the kinda diversion we coulda used.
User avatar
Yshania
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 10:00 pm
Location: Some Girls Wander By Mistake
Contact:

Post by Yshania »

Originally posted by Gwalchmai
Startling, isn't it? :eek: :D


Yes indeed...all the more reason, I think, to sensitively close this chapter of DF... :)
Parachute for sale, like new! Never opened!
Guinness, black goes with everything.
User avatar
Scayde
Posts: 8739
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:05 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Scayde »

I have wondered why no one ever sleeps :p

Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)

The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
User avatar
Bloodstalker
Posts: 15512
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2001 10:00 pm
Location: Hell if I know
Contact:

Post by Bloodstalker »

Sleep? Do you know the risks involved in sleeping? People get drugged, transformed, tied up and God knows what else, while their awake :eek: :p
Lord of Lurkers

Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!
User avatar
Scayde
Posts: 8739
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:05 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Scayde »

Originally posted by Bloodstalker
Sleep? Do you know the risks involved in sleeping? People get drugged, transformed, tied up and God knows what else, while their awake :eek: :p
Oh...And here all along I figured it was because BS was in the vecinity :p

Scayde Moody
(Pronounced Shayde)

The virtue of self sacrifice is the lie perpetuated by the weak to enslave the strong
Post Reply