Please note that new user registrations disabled at this time.

King of Dragon Pass

Anything goes... just keep it clean.
Post Reply
User avatar
fable
Posts: 30676
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Contact:

King of Dragon Pass

Post by fable »

I've been replaying this 1999 CRPG/strategy hybrid, and it continues to surprise me with its variety and depth of gameplay. So I thought I'd drag out an old review I wrote several years ago for a defunct game magazine, and posted two years ago in SYM, as well. This time, I'm going to expand it somewhat. If you find it too long, just read the first word of every sentence, and take plenty of deep breaths. :p On the other hand, if you're really in the mood for an exciting and different kind of CRPG, read it all, and consider visiting the King of Dragon Pass website.

Note, this review *is* under copyright, and remains the property of the parent company that first published it. I asked for, and received, their permission for this use.

Now, onto the review.

In a business that’s obsessed with “niche,” here’s a game that defies easy categorization: a turn-based RPG strategy title, and a menu-driven simulation that puts you in detailed charge of a barbarian clan.

King of Dragon Pass takes place on the world of Glorantha, in the Runequest pen-and-paper RPG. Its clans pursue typical barbarian activities: herding, farming, exploring, trading, feuding, building different defenses, worshipping gods, forming alliances and raiding neighbors. You’re not physically represented in the game, but you manage a clan ring that is, filling its seven positions with disputatious nobles and commoners (chosen from more than forty suitable candidates, each rated for seven unique skills, like Magic, Combat and Leadership) who willingly contribute their contrasting and distinctive viewpoints and advice at every opportunity.

Like any good, turn-based CRPG/resource management game, KoDP supplies dozens of activity options and forces you to make choices: two activities per season, in a five-season year. Even the simpler choices may contain a subset of selections that force you to think. Perhaps you need more farmers. Do you lower numbers in your other clan professions like hunting and guarding, buy the services of farmers away from other clans, offer farming land to passing vagabonds who then join your clan, or seek farmers from the land of your origins, far away? And do you offer incentives, like land, or land and cattle, to gain recruits? Action fans who prefer vikings endlessly hitting one another over their helmets will blanch, but this spin on Celtic cultural history is really involving. It gets you thinking about rulership in a way that simply ordering troops from one province to another simply cannot.

KoDP is also set in a fantasy universe inhabited by dragons, ghosts, trolls and other potential health hazards, which means swords can do only so much; magic is essential. KoDP allows you to build shrines or more effective temples to each of a dozen gods, who can teach or perform any of more than fifty blessing (and curse) spells with an appropriate sacrifice. Want to improve your chances during a raid? Sacrifice regularly to one of four or five gods, and you'll have a broad selection of positive effects to boost tribal battle readiness available. Or perhaps you might consider sacrificing to the earthquake or disease goddesses to harm another tribe; or even go to Eurmal, the Trickster god, who's as likely to laugh in your face as he is to magically steal another clan's magic and make it temporarily your own.

One of the most interesting activity choices you have in KoDP involves sending your most powerful nobles on any of two dozen heroquests. In good, authentically shamanistic tradition, these quests are trance-state attempts to recreate powerful legends, with the hero cast in the central role of a particular god. The gods don’t die in the legends, but if your hero strays from the appropriate responses or luck is against you, the quest may turn sour. Success conveys a range of specific but powerful magical benefits upon the clan, ranging from a magical treasure that increases the fertility of cattle (cattle are prestige, food and wealth to a clan) to an automatic end to a feud, to a sudden and profound increase in the quester's warrior skills or other abilities. Failure can mean anything from earth-scorching famine to your neighbors’ sudden hatred to the quester’s death. There are many factors that can help or hinder the likelihood of a given quest's success; but despite the dangers and uncertainty, no clan that wishes to achieve legendary status can afford to neglect them.

But the single most interesting feature in KoDP is the way it effectively becomes a different game every time its you play it. Yes, I know you’ve heard it before, but it’s never been attempted on this scale; for KoDP tracks more than a thousand clan variables and more than five hundred potential plots, at least one of which is randomly generated nearly every season of your clan’s existence.

Some plots are one-shot situations with immediate effects, like a proposed marriage between members of your clan and another’s which only requires shortterm negotiations. (Though if the marriage goes sour, you could end up in another plot a few years later as the local equivalent of divorce becomes messy.) Others create story threads that hibernate for long periods, only to burst into view many years later—like one noble I had on a ring, whose occasional, whimsically silly, non sequitur advice about the evil of Elves suddenly turned deadly serious after more than twenty years of excellent service, when he deliberately maimed three Elves in the clan woodlands, victims of his desire to force a war.

You are always given a range of four-to-seven options in every plot situation that go far beyond the usual good/evil stereotypes of so-called “interactive” gaming. Most choices offer equally effective solutions to the same problems, though with different attendant benefits and dangers. The apparently poorest reply to a given situation in one game could well provide the best results in the next, depending upon what gods you’ve worship regularly, who’s on your clan ring, your clan’s wellbeing, military might and diplomatic relations. All this environmental richness means that you can effectively create a clan tailored to your desires: a bunch of peaceloving traders, an uproarious bunch of raiders, a group into landgrabbing and conquest, etc. When I suggest that any of these can succeed in winning the ultimate prize, I'm not hazing you.

The interface is simplicity itself, a series of screens whose activities are grouped by subject. There’s a help mode that explains each screen, a very good in-game tutorial, and a hardcover manual that provides a great deal of highly readable detail in a well-organized format.

KoDP isn’t without its flaws. The game’s visuals feature colorful, attractive menus, but no animation—even combat is handled this way, via screen summaries. And while the other clans follow the same rules you do, it’s easy to regard them as passive spectators (they aren't), because you seldom see the effects of their actions unless you’re on the receiving end. There are few spies among Gloranthan barbarians.

You also expect to move to a new level of difficulty when your clan leads others in forming a tribe—after all, you’ve bargained away tribal ring seats to reach this point, and it seems reasonable to expect at least a periodic tribal meet to challenge your burgeoning diplomatic skills. But nothing of the sort occurs. At best, when one of your nobles is elected tribal chieftain, a few new plots affecting the tribe appear; still, it’s not much.

But I’ll gladly raise a drinking horn to toast the creators of such an original and rich game as KoDP. With variety, depth, and a Celtic folk soundtrack to die for, this game’s a solid keeper.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
User avatar
fable
Posts: 30676
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Contact:

Post by fable »

Boy, tough crowd. ;) Here are some KoDP screens. This first one shows one of the event decisions you'll need to make, as well as the reactions of a council member. You'll find that the different council members offer unique advice; the best for a given event probably comes from the person who has the greatest experitise in that area:

Image
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
User avatar
fable
Posts: 30676
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Contact:

Post by fable »

This screen's the lead-in to diplomatic relations, which in KoDP involves sending a delegation with gifts to improve relations, create an alliance, resolve a feud, call-in a favor, etc. You'll select the size and makeup of the delegation, who leads it, and what kind/amount of gifts you bring just to get you in the front door. At some point, you may need to make further choices--as in selecting the kind of argument your emissary makes after they arrive.

Image

For some reason I've never been able to fathom, the screens up on the web for KoDP are all the tamest ones. Unfortuately, I don't have a site of my own, so I can only link to theirs.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
User avatar
Robnark
Posts: 3208
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2002 11:00 pm
Location: the Floating World
Contact:

Post by Robnark »

well, I'm already pretty interested thanks to years of your sneaky plugging, and that diplomacy screen looks the epitome of a well thought-out game design. considering I spent money on Temple of Elemental Evil (thank god for refunds), I'm very entheusiastic already.
Here where the flattering and mendacious swarm
Of lying epitaths their secrets keep,
At last incapable of further harm
The lewd forefathers of the village sleep.
User avatar
fable
Posts: 30676
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Contact:

Post by fable »

Cool. If you have any questions about the game once you get it, let me know, @Robnark. It's among my all-time favorites--as has been obvious ;) --and I'll gladly help.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
User avatar
Ned Flanders
Posts: 4867
Joined: Mon May 28, 2001 10:00 pm
Location: Springfield
Contact:

Post by Ned Flanders »

sounds good fable. I remember you mentioning this game around here a while back. I visited their web site, piqued my interest a little, but I didn't pursue it. After reading your review, I think I'll be buying this one. Ebay, of course a logical means of obtaining; are there any other outlets still selling this Jurassic title?
Crush enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women.
User avatar
fable
Posts: 30676
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Contact:

Post by fable »

@Ned, a 1999 release date is surely not Jurassic. :D But in any case, why not buy it directly from the developers, here, for whatever is your local equivalent of $19.95?
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
User avatar
Ned Flanders
Posts: 4867
Joined: Mon May 28, 2001 10:00 pm
Location: Springfield
Contact:

Post by Ned Flanders »

thanks for putting the link in the thread a second time. Here Here, for the reading impaired!

Please pardon my reference to computing in late 1990's as Jurassic. :)
Crush enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women.
User avatar
fable
Posts: 30676
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Contact:

Post by fable »

Originally posted by Ned Flanders
thanks for putting the link in the thread a second time. Here Here, for the reading impaired!


No, you're not lapsing into senescence. :D It's quite easy to lapse into a mindset that regards developers as other than publishers. These days, unfortunately, few can afford to do both. A-Sharp has undoubtedly lost a great deal of revenue by trying this tactic.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
User avatar
Dottie
Posts: 4277
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:00 am
Location: Mindlessly floating around.
Contact:

Post by Dottie »

So, for anyone who have played this game: Is there any way to answer to tribe creation questions so that you get a Vinga shrine to start with?

Damn good game btw, and not for the reasons Fable states, but for other completely different ones.

(And yes, I'm indifferent to holidays :) )
While others climb the mountains High, beneath the tree I love to lie
And watch the snails go whizzing by, It's foolish but it's fun
User avatar
fable
Posts: 30676
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Contact:

Post by fable »

Dottie wrote:So, for anyone who have played this game: Is there any way to answer to tribe creation questions so that you get a Vinga shrine to start with?
No. It's the first shrine I build if I've got a Vinga among my nobles, for exploration. Otherwise, I send out Issaries types.
Damn good game btw, and not for the reasons Fable states, but for other completely different ones.
The Garbo Award for Being Mysterious was cancelled because nobody could figure out the conditions. What do you mean, different ones?
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
User avatar
Dottie
Posts: 4277
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:00 am
Location: Mindlessly floating around.
Contact:

Post by Dottie »

Yes, I've noticed the bargain types prove useful in all kinds of situations.

So far I agree with most of the items in your review as well, but two very important features to me are:

1. Most strategy games I've played suffer a lot because what you have already accomplished is very secure, and the only type of failure that realistically exists is lack of rapid expansion. Not so here, A little bit of bad luck, a few bad decision and that nice herd of horses that you spend 4 years gathering can be gone in 1 year. That gives a lot more suspension imo.

2. All problems don't have a simple and safe solution. Again, most strategy games give you a solution that works in almost all cases (violence) and the only way to fail is not to use enough force. Here you can get stuck with grumpy peasants, or hero-quests that does not simply yield to your preferred problem solving method. Also, previous choices comes back to haunt you in a way that doesnt just mean you have to pay an additional 5% of your income to Peasant happiness for one year, and everything is fine. You can brake things that are very difficult to fix.

Obviously you might have mentioned all of this already, but in another thread or in some form of complex grammar - multisyllable construction that I'm unable to fully grasp. ;)
While others climb the mountains High, beneath the tree I love to lie
And watch the snails go whizzing by, It's foolish but it's fun
User avatar
fable
Posts: 30676
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Contact:

Post by fable »

Dottie wrote:1. Most strategy games I've played suffer a lot because what you have already accomplished is very secure, and the only type of failure that realistically exists is lack of rapid expansion. Not so here, A little bit of bad luck, a few bad decision and that nice herd of horses that you spend 4 years gathering can be gone in 1 year. That gives a lot more suspension imo.
I find that a bit of experience and knowledge about the game does provide you with a buffer against just such losses. Of course, you can cut down on the buffer by establishing arbitrary playing conditions, such as having no combat-oriented nobles on your council, swearing off use of the Chalana Arroy "peace bomb," etc.
2. All problems don't have a simple and safe solution. Again, most strategy games give you a solution that works in almost all cases (violence) and the only way to fail is not to use enough force. Here you can get stuck with grumpy peasants, or hero-quests that does not simply yield to your preferred problem solving method. Also, previous choices comes back to haunt you in a way that doesnt just mean you have to pay an additional 5% of your income to Peasant happiness for one year, and everything is fine. You can brake things that are very difficult to fix.
Very true. There are many mini-plots where every multiple choice answer has both an up- and downside, or where the positives and negatives vary depending upon the history you've given to your tribe at game start ("tradition"). And yes, it's great how actions you take can either hug you or bite you in the ass, later on.
Obviously you might have mentioned all of this already, but in another thread or in some form of complex grammar - multisyllable construction that I'm unable to fully grasp. ;)
We don't have any Babylonian temples up in Sweden, do we? Damn.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
User avatar
Dottie
Posts: 4277
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:00 am
Location: Mindlessly floating around.
Contact:

Post by Dottie »

fable wrote:I find that a bit of experience and knowledge about the game does provide you with a buffer against just such losses. Of course, you can cut down on the buffer by establishing arbitrary playing conditions, such as having no combat-oriented nobles on your council, swearing off use of the Chalana Arroy "peace bomb," etc.
Probably, but I'm not there yet. Reminds me of my first experiences with Europa Universalis, when the world seemed to be a dangerous place. As soon as you learned not to piss off everyone the feeling was gone though.
We don't have any Babylonian temples up in Sweden, do we? Damn.
Swedes don't know any Babylonian blessings, so it would be pointless.

Another question: Is it possible to find a reasonably intelligent trickster, or are all idiotic provocateurs?
While others climb the mountains High, beneath the tree I love to lie
And watch the snails go whizzing by, It's foolish but it's fun
User avatar
fable
Posts: 30676
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Contact:

Post by fable »

Dottie wrote:Swedes don't know any Babylonian blessings, so it would be pointless.
Actually, Swedes could use all the blessings they could get. You should check into establishing an appropriate geographical basis for a Babylonian mythos, preferrably with a nice spa attached.
Another question: Is it possible to find a reasonably intelligent trickster, or are all idiotic provocateurs?
The answer is (b). Though you should pay attention to their occasional comments quoting lore, since it usually provides sound advice for current behavior.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
User avatar
Dottie
Posts: 4277
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:00 am
Location: Mindlessly floating around.
Contact:

Post by Dottie »

fable wrote:Actually, Swedes could use all the blessings they could get. You should check into establishing an appropriate geographical basis for a Babylonian mythos, preferrably with a nice spa attached.
Seglarhotellet - An archipelago classic all year around
Might do if you can stand being around people who believe putting food on their eyelids will make them new and better as well as business conference guest.

Or you could walk in the footsteps of Nebuchadnezzar the Great and invade.

The answer is (b). Though you should pay attention to their occasional comments quoting lore, since it usually provides sound advice for current behavior.
Yes, I've understood that the traditional ways are often the best ones. Nice set up with ancestral magic and consistency btw. Wish someone would implement that as a reward system in a traditional RPG.
While others climb the mountains High, beneath the tree I love to lie
And watch the snails go whizzing by, It's foolish but it's fun
User avatar
fable
Posts: 30676
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
Contact:

Post by fable »

Dottie wrote:Seglarhotellet - An archipelago classic all year around
Might do if you can stand being around people who believe putting food on their eyelids will make them new and better as well as business conference guest.
I withdraw my suggestion. That's simply too bizarre for words.
Yes, I've understood that the traditional ways are often the best ones. Nice set up with ancestral magic and consistency btw. Wish someone would implement that as a reward system in a traditional RPG.
What, and find genuinely creative ways of implementing realistic social interaction within a game? Don't be silly. It's much simpler to be lazy and expect players to kill anything with a giant "evil" label attached to it.

Note that if you have to remove a Eurmal noble from your council (and there are at least 3 reasons I can think of doing so, one Eurmal-specific), then you can return them to it, a year later. They can be surprisingly useful at times, if you don't mind the incidents of giving and stealing cattle.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Post Reply