Paladin's Party - Possible Spoilers

Armycardinal · Post by **Armycardinal** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:54 am

OK so this is like Mr. Vegas' thread about Archers or Paladins - but a little different...

I am running a Paladin (can't pull the trigger to be evil yet) thru BG1 and will export when I get done. There aren't a whole lot of "Good" mages out there (Aerie, & Immie/Nalia). After running my Mage PC all the way thru ToB - I see the importance (and fun) of Mages. (Sequenced Chain Lightnings and Lower Res. ROCKS)

Here is the party I'm thinking about:

I want to keep Carsomyr to myself (No Keldorn)- I'll try Inquisitor kit

Anomen (I wonder if he can still pass the test if not romanced?? - Don't Tell Me)

Jah (try romancing her)
Aerie
Mazzy/Minsc (Mazzy is hard to get to early and equip - not too strong)
Immie/Nalia (until I get Immie back)
So who else - I'm thinking Edwin

I just forgot Jan

Horrors. Is he decent enough?
I'd like to have three mages and don't know if Edwin can handle it with my high reputation (That I'm sure to get).

I don't want to hack the game with Mods or anything (CLUA is another matter tho.

)

Thanks.

AC

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 11:14 am

Sounds interesting

I don't know how well Edwin will work though, unless you download the Happy Patch. Others may know more here. Also, Minsc and Edwin will come to blows unless you download the Happy Patch.

You might want also want to consider just using Immy and Jan as your thief/mage power, and if you want an additional spell caster you may want to break down and try one of the sorceror mods

Though Aerie, Imoen and Jan combined will give you a ton of magic power... And that is not taking into account clerical/druid spells from Jah and Ano.

AgentX · Post by **AgentX** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 11:31 am

You could try the kelsey mod. He's a good sorceror and I hear he's quite developed character for being a 3rd party mod. I believe he has a little mini romance with Imoen so I think it'd be an interesting interaction to consider adding.

Edwin wouldn't really fit in that party.. though if you really want him you can just keep your rep at like 16 or 17 and be fine. In ToB you can go will nilly goody two shoes and it won't matter I think.

Mazzy isn't bad, her special abilities are kinda nifty but she is dispensible. She's as close to a halfling paladin as you can get... but then again Minsc is with you from the start and his weap profiencies are so flexible and can be shaped to do anything you want.

Use Jan until you can get imoen back. You don't need much mage power for the time you are left without her. I've done fine doing some side quests and heading straight to the asylum with druid/clerics as my casters. Nalia has such poor theif skills its pathetic. On the otherhand, if you really want to see her character interaction you COULD shadowkeep her or just go and do the planarsphere quests and all that can get you some theif augmenting rings and bracers.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 11:32 am

Any combination of NPCs will be successful if you exploit their strengths. (For example, don't underestimate Mazzy.) Since you have chosen to play a particular kind of character (as opposed to, say, a "construct" solely for the purpose of gaming), I would suggest that you focus on roleplaying considerations.

For example, if you're playing a Paladin, then having a Red Wizard of Thay in your party (Edwin) should be completely out of the question. Personally, I'd rather hack the NPCs than make my character do something so out of character. For example, if you made Jan a single-class Illusionist and gave him an amulet just like Edwin's, you couldn't say that Edwin was still the "best Mage".

Speaking of Jan, although Jan is Chaotic Neutral (and a teller of tall tales), he's not the least bit evil. He gets along well with Paladins and Clerics (as long as they can put up with him, anyway). If you're not going to bring a Bard along to chronicle your Paladin's adventures, a spinner of yarns as talented as Jan would be your next best choice.

Jaheria is a powerful character, but she's too glum for my tastes. Adventuring with her just isn't very fun. The other romances aren't that much fun in Shadows of Amn, either, but the romance with Aerie has its moments in Throne of Bhaal. There's also the consideration of alignment. Jaheira is Neutral, so she will complain when your Reputation is high, while Aerie is Lawful Good. I don't want to discourage you from romancing Jaheira, but it's something to think about if you haven't made up your mind yet.

I'm not sure why you're hesitant to try MODs, but another alternative would be the Tashia MOD. She's a Sorcerer (a good one), and she can be romanced.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 11:36 am

OK, you sure have the potential for a great party. I would suggest the following:

You - Carsomyr

Jaheira - Blackblood, Shield of Harmony and Ironskin...

Mazzy - Tancheron's (she's easy to get, just pick her up, no need to do the whole quest)

Anomen - Sling of Seeking (gives Str bonus, make sure to give him Gauntlets of Dex and five profs in Sling)

Jan - Light X-Bow of Speed (Is he good enough?! You gotta be kidding...)

Imoen - Staff/Long Sword and Fire Dagger

A party with just about everything you'll ever need!

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:34 pm

Hmm...

For magery, Jan is certainly solid, hacked or no.

the MOD NPC Sorceror Tashia would also be a really good choice (and she's even of good alignment)

The Good NPCs in the Vanilla game are Imoen, Nalia, Aerie, Mazzy, Keldorn, Minsc, Valygar and Anomen (well, and Cernd, but who cares...). Jaheira is formally neutral but really a goody-two shoes at heart, and Jan fits in anywhere, as said above, as does Yoshimo. All of these guys will fit into an RP-ed Paladin led group, flavor to taste (I just realized I've NEVER played a game without Jaheira...I must have a secret crush on her)

Probably Edwin, Viconia, Haer'Dalis (also formally neutral) & Korgan are pretty much right out. You could potentially have Viconia as a romancee on the grounds that you're going to lead her on the path to righteousness (blech!), but she's just so deliciously evil it seems a pity, really.

If you haven't played SoA through before, I'd do it vanilla (unmodded) first.

Good gaming!

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 4:24 am

Re: Hmm...

Originally posted by nephtu
The Good NPCs in the Vanilla game are Imoen, Nalia, Aerie, Mazzy, Keldorn, Minsc, Valygar and Anomen (well, and Cernd, but who cares...).

Probably Edwin, Viconia, Haer'Dalis (also formally neutral) & Korgan are pretty much right out.

Cernd is neutral, as are all Druids.

Why shouldn't H'D be an alternative? If you worry about alignments, he is neutral after all. No need to stack him with Korgan, Edwin and Viconia...

chimpmaster · Post by **chimpmaster** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:05 am

good parties

Hi there,

Ive recently run through SOA & TOB (but not BG and TSC) with a Neutral Evil, half/elf fighter thief.

RIght now, I have started over and am in the original BG (chapter 5 i think) as a NG Bard. I intend to change to a skald for SOA.

Now, the good party I have in mind for SOA/TOB is the following...

- Me (NG Skald)
- Minsc (CG Ranger)
- Imoen(NG Thief/Mage)
- Amoen (LG Fighter/Cleric - must pass the test this time)
- Keldorn (LG Inqusitor)
- Jaheira (TN Fighter/Druid).

SPOILER

While Imoen is away, I will likely replace her with Nalia, if not Jan. Nalia is a better fit probably.

I like to role play. hence I will probably lose keldorn to his wife and replace him with Mazzy (LG Fighter).

Also, Im not a huge load/reload person when the going gets tough. If something happens to Minsc I will replace him with Valygar.

In my opinion, at least te way I play, you need at least 2 cleric types in your party, and two mage type spell casters. Multi classess often work bettere as they give you options (hence my choices) . And co course you need a reasonable level of warriors two - multi classes are great here.

Do not understimate Anomen as a front line warrior. You can get his THACO right down with the right equipment, and he can where top armour also, and usually has heaps of hit points. He is excellent support for your frontline fighters like Minsc/Valgar/Mazzy/Keldorn.

Jaheira is a harper so despite neutral alignment she really tends towards good. Jan Jansen will be happy in pretty much any party, though he doesnt like really evil stuff.

Out of interest my prior evil party was/

Me - NE Fighter/Thief
Korgan - CE berserker
Anomen - CN Fallen Fighter/Cleric
Viconia - NE Cleric
Edwin - LE Conjurer
Haer Daelis - CN Blade

I personally feel Haer Daelis has much more mor an evil persuasion for a CN character than someone like Jan. Likewise fallen anomen is VERY comfortable in an evil party. Just keep your rep over 4. YOu want to do that anyway otherwise you get attacked on site in cities.

Hope all this info helps....

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:37 am

Re: Re: Hmm...

Originally posted by Astafas
Cernd is neutral, as are all Druids.

Why shouldn't H'D be an alternative? If you worry about alignments, he is neutral after all. No need to stack him with Korgan, Edwin and Viconia...

You are,of course, correct that Cernd is formally neutral. But he's really a goody-two shoes like Jaheira. HD is also formally neutral, but definitely evil-friendly (at least IMAO). I probably should have specified that. Thanks for pointing it out.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 3:36 pm

Re: Re: Re: Hmm...

Originally posted by nephtu
You are,of course, correct that Cernd is formally neutral. But he's really a goody-two shoes like Jaheira. HD is also formally neutral, but definitely evil-friendly (at least IMAO). I probably should have specified that. Thanks for pointing it out.

Is there any situations in the game where H'D's "evil-friendliness" shines through?

chimpmaster · Post by **chimpmaster** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 4:46 pm

Well

Hd's evil friendliness typically comes out in an apathetic soert of way. His obsession with entropy and chaos substantiates this.

eg, you save him from demons, he will adventure with you across the plains for excitement.

He is not scared or uncomfortable by your actions if you choose the evil path through the underdark and anywhere else.

As long as you maintain your reputation above 4 he will happily travel along with you as a general rule.

Perhaps if you were a lawful evil character and role played it deeply (which would be hard in bg2 from my exp as most lawful actions will lead to a good or at least neutral persuasion), he would be uncomfortable with that.

Bottom line is there are onyl a few things that will annoy HD. Clashes with other party members - i wont spoil any of these for you. And consistently law abiding type behaviour. Annoyance is more likely than anger with this guy though, however, except in a couple of the party clash situations

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:00 pm

Re: Well

Originally posted by chimpmaster
Hd's evil friendliness typically comes out in an apathetic soert of way. His obsession with entropy and chaos substantiates this.

eg, you save him from demons, he will adventure with you across the plains for excitement.

He is not scared or uncomfortable by your actions if you choose the evil path through the underdark and anywhere else.

As long as you maintain your reputation above 4 he will happily travel along with you as a general rule.

Perhaps if you were a lawful evil character and role played it deeply (which would be hard in bg2 from my exp as most lawful actions will lead to a good or at least neutral persuasion), he would be uncomfortable with that.

Bottom line is there are onyl a few things that will annoy HD. Clashes with other party members - i wont spoil any of these for you. And consistently law abiding type behaviour. Annoyance is more likely than anger with this guy though, however, except in a couple of the party clash situations

I truly fail to see your points here.

H'D is to my knowledge not more scared or uncomfortable by your actions if you choose the good path through the Underdark or anywhere else.

As long as you maintain your reputation below 16 he will happily travel along with you as a general rule.

Being annoyed or having issues with other party members haven't, IMHO, anything to do with being good or evil. Keldorn will have issues with one of the evil NPCs, does that make him evil as well? Anomen isn't that happy about running errands for the church of Helm, does that make him evil?

chimpmaster · Post by **chimpmaster** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 8:38 pm

Well, without getting into an argument with you

HD & fallen anomen are well suited to an evil party. You can probably have them in a good party also though I have found personally very few personality clashes when a party contains:

viconia
edwin
korgan
HD
fallen anomen
yourself as an evil pc

If there is a better combination Id like to hear it. TN Druids etc will always get upset and even head for the hills if you continue to make evil choices, likewsie they tend to clash more harshly with evil npcs.

Korgan, edwin and viconia do have some banter between each other, but its pretty damn tame compared to the conflict that can occur with some other npcs, you must admit>>

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:56 pm

More crap...

Well, my point is more that Haer'Dalis (and Jan) are actually neutral, where Jaheira and Cernd, while formally neutral are really heavily bent to good.

We can get into vast and unproductive discussions about all that alignment stuff in the problematic moral cosmology of D&D, but let's not

Can we be done with this? My point was minor at best, and I think we've hugely exceeded its merit.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:39 am

Re: More crap...

Originally posted by nephtu
Can we be done with this? My point was minor at best, and I think we've hugely exceeded its merit.

Fair enogh.

One could of course also discuss why an evil PC would want to surround himself solely with other evil, or "evilish", NPCs in the first place...

Armycardinal · Post by **Armycardinal** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:54 pm

Wow...Let's all not just throw-down or anything

I was just wondering what the assembled masses felt about the most enjoyable party that could accompany a paladin...sheesh

I like the idea of having Jan around to "Tell the tale of my Legendary Exploits."

and I haven't played him yet, either. So I think he's in.

Here's what I'm thinking for a final:

Me (the Inquisitor kit)

Jahiera (LOVE the spell Insect Plague)

Aerie (my 6 year old daughter INSISTS!!

)

Anomen (tho' I'll be *issed if he screws up and fails the test w/out being romanced)

Jan Jansen (from what everyone says, he's a HOOT to play, and I've never played an Illusionist)

Imoen/Nalia (keep Nalia until I free Immie)

As far as the discussion on H'D goes - he seems slimy. Definitely NOT someone a Goody-two-shoes, self-respecting, holier-than-thou, Paladin would associate with. Sure I'll help him out - it's the good thing to do. After that, look out or I'll chop you in half...

(and smile while doing it)

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:17 pm

Originally posted by Armycardinal
As far as the discussion on H'D goes - he seems slimy. Definitely NOT someone a Goody-two-shoes, self-respecting, holier-than-thou, Paladin would associate with. Sure I'll help him out - it's the good thing to do. After that, look out or I'll chop you in half... (and smile while doing it)

You'll shop up the guy who promises his short swords will protect you both from the evil Irenicus? And you think H'D is slimy while considering to take Edwin in?? Oh my...

Demonspoon · Post by **Demonspoon** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:06 pm

If there is a better combination Id like to hear it.

Korgan
Viconia
Edwin
Jan
Cernd
Protaganist some sort of warrior, monk etc

IMHO Haerdalis sucks, he always dies in battle and his mage spells are really low level. Pickpocketing is used like twice the whole game and he is nothing compared to someone like Jan

Squee · Post by **Squee** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:59 am

Gah! Doesn't anyone use Cernd. I kind of like his personality more than Jaheiras. And I always (if i'm good) use Aerie. Aerie and Jaheira can't be in the same party (if you play the vanilla game) , that's for sure. And why not Cernd. He's a better fighter and a better druid than Jaheira is. He has A LOT more spells. And it's cool to have a werewolf in your party

.

Numinor · Post by **Numinor** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:06 am

Sure Jaheira and Aerie can be in the same party, they won't like each other very much but they'll get along, unlike some other NPCs.