Kensai/Thief

davfra · Post by **davfra** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:36 pm

If I start as a Kensai with the intention of dualing to a thief, can I choose assasin as my kit for a thief?
cheers

Zelgadis · Post by **Zelgadis** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:39 pm

Sorry, but no. The class you dual to is always the generic form.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:48 pm

As @Zel says. This means that kensai/sorc is off-limits too, for instance. You can always go kensai/thief, /mage, /fighter, etc.

CrownHead · Post by **CrownHead** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:56 pm

Unless you use SK...

Although a Kensai/Assassin would be just the ultimate cheese character.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:14 am

No.

You can be a Kensai/thief or Fighter/Asassin - using SK you can only set one kit unless you set the individual skills, etc.

To be honest, Kensai/thief does just fine, get GM in staves or Katanas and you'll be putting out some insane damage even without backstab. Asassination with improved haste...youch!

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 5:24 am

That character has to be the ultimate cheese next to BunBun.
What about putting skills 2handed sword, and wait for UAI

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:20 am

did anyone actually have a problem of a kensai-thief NOT DOING ENOUGH DAMAGE on a backstab???

i admit, the combimation of the two killer kits does have a certain evil flavor about it...

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:27 am

Heh..

Originally posted by Stilgar
That character has to be the ultimate cheese next to BunBun.
What about putting skills 2handed sword, and wait for UAI

That's what I did with my kensai(12)/thief. Actually, they didn't backstab a lot, they could put out loads o'damage in straight melee.

tseepra · Post by **tseepra** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:06 pm

Re: Heh..

Originally posted by nephtu
That's what I did with my kensai(12)/thief. Actually, they didn't backstab a lot, they could put out loads o'damage in straight melee.

You can only backstab with weapons that vanilla thieves can use. So you can't backstab with a 2-handed sword. So basically staff, scimitar, short sword, katana, and dagger are the only weapons you can backstab with.

Aule · Post by **Aule** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:12 pm

Originally posted by Mirk
did anyone actually have a problem of a kensai-thief NOT DOING ENOUGH DAMAGE on a backstab???

i admit, the combimation of the two killer kits does have a certain evil flavor about it...

well i had a multi class kensai/thief using shadowkeeper and i did lots i believe i could kill everything i wanted in only one blow, add in LOTS of potions of invisibility and you should do just fine. You could try soloing him

Numinor · Post by **Numinor** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:47 pm

Re: Re: Heh..

Originally posted by tseepra
You can only backstab with weapons that vanilla thieves can use. So you can't backstab with a 2-handed sword. So basically staff, scimitar, short sword, katana, and dagger are the only weapons you can backstab with.

Don't forget clubs and long swords

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:06 am

Re: Re: Heh..

Originally posted by tseepra
You can only backstab with weapons that vanilla thieves can use. So you can't backstab with a 2-handed sword. So basically staff, scimitar, short sword, katana, and dagger are the only weapons you can backstab with.

Yes, Deodand (the character in question) had staves for backstab - an afterthought, actually, I'd initially intended them for Kensai/Mage, and I just rather like two handed swords....

Good gaming!

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:55 am

Re: No.

Originally posted by nephtu
You can be a Kensai/thief or Fighter/Asassin - using SK you can only set one kit unless you set the individual skills, etc.

Not entirely accurate. <Major ShadowKeeper Spoilers.>

Most kit abilities are assigned to the character at level up and stay on the record. In the Kensai's case, the AC, Hit & Dam bonus stay with the character even if you change the kit. So you could change your kit from Kensai to Assassin & then dual. You would keep the rockin Kensai bonuses & start off as an assasin.

But like everyone else said, isn't this a little overkill?

With regards to the 2-Handed Sword, no you can't back stab with it, but as Stilgar pointed out wait for UAI. Then you can use the Holy Avenger! For mages, you could backstab with something like Celestial Fury, then switch to Carsymr to finish the fight.

The other good option with this character is backstab with the staff of the Ram & then finish the fight with the Staff of the Magi.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:19 pm

Re: Re: No.

Originally posted by Screaming Johny
Not entirely accurate. <Major ShadowKeeper Spoilers.>

Most kit abilities are assigned to the character at level up and stay on the record. In the Kensai's case, the AC, Hit & Dam bonus stay with the character even if you change the kit. So you could change your kit from Kensai to Assassin & then dual. You would keep the rockin Kensai bonuses & start off as an assasin.

But like everyone else said, isn't this a little overkill?

With regards to the 2-Handed Sword, no you can't back stab with it, but as Stilgar pointed out wait for UAI. Then you can use the Holy Avenger! For mages, you could backstab with something like Celestial Fury, then switch to Carsymr to finish the fight.

The other good option with this character is backstab with the staff of the Ram & then finish the fight with the Staff of the Magi.

the thaco and to damage bonuses of a 40th level kensai are determined by 13 lines in the affects file that determine thaco bonuses, 13 lines that determine to damage bonuses, and one line that sets armor class.

if you add those 27 lines to any character, you've essentially made them into a kensai...

so yes, a kensai assassin is rather easy to make...and horribly easy to abuse...

look for this line in a high level assassin's affects file...

0x0107 (SPCL 332)

now duplicate the line several times...backstab some one...

i've gotten nontuple (x9) backstab multiplier from a sorceror using mislead...

Adahn · Post by **Adahn** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:26 pm

Re: Re: Re: Heh..

Originally posted by Numinor
Don't forget clubs and long swords

*raises eye brow*

You can acctualy backstab with a club?

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:16 pm

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:07 am

The club Gnasher is actually one of the best backstabbing weapon, specially against spellcaster, thanks to the extra delayed damage.

DarkApos · Post by **DarkApos** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:27 am

kensi/assasian? i think the swashbukler is alot better! hey doesnt lose any theif points and has an un bettable AC

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:30 am

Kensai/swashie?

Unless I'm missing something, Kensai/swashie is sort of pointless, you still couldn't wear armour (untill you got UAI), you'd lose the backstabs, and a straight Kensai already has mucho melee damage output. Yes, the AC would be good once you could wear armour, but that character should really be killing, someone else can do the tanking.

And, yes, backstabbing with blunts is silly, but what the heck...

My 2gp worth

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:30 am

i'm thinking of "backstab" not only as of literally creaping from behind and slipping a throat, but of a well-planned well-aimed well-executed first attack, that cathches your target "flat-footed", and allows you to well...

well-execute your well-plan of well-aim at some critical organ. the damage type is irrelevant - a swing by a katana, a stab by a stiletto, a blow with a club can all accomplish this. as can a crossbow bolt (if not better) IMHO - but that's a 3ed story...