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Dawn Of The Dead

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ILL WILL
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Post by ILL WILL »

Re: What you said wrong
Originally posted by Bloodthroe
Well of course the disease acts like a virus, zombies just aren’t scary in this day and age. The virus was a good idea.
Also in the beginning when the nurse girl got into her car she saw either a van or hospital vehicle in front of her (I cant remember which) but two people were tearing apart and biting the person in the middle of them. So obviously they don’t lose interest after infecting people, they lose interest after the infected people die and become one of them.
It has been determined that one bite infects. The pregnant black mother was just scratched by the guy in the mall’s bite and she became infected, but it seemed to take her a long time.
It takes 23 seconds for blood to circulate through the body, give or take whether the person is exercising, so I don’t think it matters how big a person is on how fast they get infected. However I believe it matters how many bites they have and how many times they’ve been infected. The fat lady died within hours but was bitten badly, the pregnant mother that was scratched with a bite took a couple days.
Also of course it’s obviously that a blow to the brain kills the infected. Without the brain sending impulses to the body’s cells the cells just sit there motionless, like muscles without bone.
I don’t think the infected stave, they did stay outside the mall for days, more likely over a week or two (they didn’t say in movie I think.) Without having water or eating anything to replenish their glucose or carbohydrates, which is basically what the muscles need to work. The infected where ready to tip the buses over, so I’m guessing the virus sustained the bodies functions. Is why I think they can still walk around with their throats torn out. However I do believe they somewhat decompose, do to the virus eating at the bodies. But It’d take a while for it to destroy their bodies, I’d think years.

Now I’m not a doctor, nor am I into that stuff, but when you start to try to discuss how a movie works, when the writer probably doesn’t know anything about the subject. You’re taking it too seriously. I only saw the movie once and thought It’d be fun to point out all your mistakes for you. Not that I care you made them, but… hey you started this thread. :o

Edit: I just remembered the pregnant lady wasn’t black she was Russian I think. Ewhh Zombie Baby


I'll take your points in reverse, my gramatically-challenged friend.

That you think I'm taking the movie too seriously is without merit in this context. Its a discussion on a forum dedicated to fantasy roleplaying computer games. The silliness of discussing the movie is obvious but appropriate here at GameBanshee.

That it appears obvious to you that a blow to the brain would kill a zombie is inconsistent with everything else about a zombie. If its obvious that neurological impulses are required to keep a zombie functioning, why isn't it obvious that blood circulation is also required to keep them functioning? Or any other bodily function they lack?

Your point about multiple bites leading to a faster death and therefore change is based on a false factual premis. For example, the father toward the beginning of the movie was bitten once, died hours later, and changed into a zombie instantly. If I adopt your anaylsis about multiple bites quickening death, none of that would make sense. Basically, what is controlling is how long it takes you to "die." (It is true that multiple bites lead to a faster death). Then, once you die, you rise as a zombie almost instantly.

Finally, I agree with your first point (That zombies lose interest in a person once he becomes a zombie, and not before). Reread my orginal post.

As far as starving or decomposition eventually killing them, I'm not sure. Further, based on your somewhat incoherent and disjointed explanation (regarding glucose and carbohydrates), it appears you aren't sure either.

I find most of your counterpoints tenable but poorly premised and expressed.

Cheers.
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Bloodthroe
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Post by Bloodthroe »

Oh good one there pointing out my grammar mistakes, because we all know that everyone in the whole world has perfect grammar. Especially people online... and especially you. That being said, why don’t you look up how carbohydrates and glucose work, before saying that it doesn‘t work? I’m an athlete, so I kind of know that what I said makes sense. Though I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, being I didn’t know that either until I started to become an athlete. Also I don’t think they are zombies in this movie. Last I heard people didn’t become zombies only by being bitten by one, that’s vampires your thinking of. Real…(real?)…real zombies are the lowest form of undead and move incredibly slow, often summoned by slightly more powerful undead like vampires. Is why I refer to them as the infected. Also I do believe that they would decompose at some kind of rate. The virus is feeding off the cells in the body. I mean viruses HAVE to eat too. That aside I think this is all ridicules :p what I’m saying, but that’s just me. I don’t care how much time I waste talking about stuff that doesn’t matter, they’re the best things to talk about.

oh uh cheers.

Edit: oh yeah the father, did have a bad bite on him, if only one, and the mother didn’t die a few hours later like everyone else bitten, since she was only scratched with a bite was my point and the fat lady and father, were both bitten in the same church right?.. so how come she became a zombie an hour or more before the father? She didn't have any fatal wounds. Also I don’t believe they get infected immediately after the virus hit’s the brain, since like I said it takes 23 seconds for blood to circulate around the body once; they’d all die under a few hours I’d think. As far as the carbohydrates and glucose go, I said nothing about them helping them decompose. I said that after a week if they didn't replenish their glucose and carbohydrates, that their muscles wouldn't be fed the stuff that allows them to work. They might as well been using them without bones in their arms, because they need that stuff to burn while they move their muscles and I also said I thought that the virus was causing the muscles to work. I said the decomposing came from the virus eating at them... got it?
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Bloodthroe
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Post by Bloodthroe »

Re: Re: What you said wrong
Originally posted by ILL WILL

I find most of your counterpoints tenable but poorly premised and expressed.

Cheers.



@ ILL WILL Sorry if I don't express my ideas perfectly for you, but I'd rather my ideas makes sense, then be expressed perfect.

Oh since you like pointing out grammar problems and stuff, you should know that your spelling is off. Gammatically was spelled wrong on your last post. Me on the other hand, I don't point out the stupid things in life. :rolleyes:
I kill two dwarves in the morning, I kill two dwarves at night. I kill two dwarves in the afternoon, and then I feel alright. I kill two dwarves in time of peace and two in time of war. I kill two dwarves before I kill two dwarves, and then I kill two more.
I may be bad, but I feel good.
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RandomThug
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Post by RandomThug »

Fantasy. Dwarve's are not short because of a lack of nurtrients (oh god thats wrong) thier short because they are.

Zombie's are zombies... undead. Creatures of myth. If we try to find out the "sickness, disease" or whatever you might as well try to find the right gene makeup that gives Unicorns thier horn.

The movie even states the fact that well, Hells full. Sure its a narrative type deal by a priest guy, but its the only explanation given. Oh btw they bite you till you die, you die you become one of them. Its kinda like you know an Army being built perhaps with one mind like a big old evil alien or whatever fixes your ship. You know all one goal, rid the planet of those damned souls (humanity).


Btw Bruce Campell ROCKS.


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ILL WILL
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Post by ILL WILL »

Re: Re: Re: What you said wrong
Originally posted by Bloodthroe
@ ILL WILL Sorry if I don't express my ideas perfectly for you, but I'd rather my ideas makes sense, then be expressed perfect.

Oh since you like pointing out grammar problems and stuff, you should know that your spelling is off. Gammatically was spelled wrong on your last post. Me on the other hand, I don't point out the stupid things in life. :rolleyes:


lol gammatically.
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Post by Aegis »

Originally posted by RandomThug
Fantasy. Dwarve's are not short because of a lack of nurtrients (oh god thats wrong) thier short because they are.

Zombie's are zombies... undead. Creatures of myth. If we try to find out the "sickness, disease" or whatever you might as well try to find the right gene makeup that gives Unicorns thier horn.

The movie even states the fact that well, Hells full. Sure its a narrative type deal by a priest guy, but its the only explanation given. Oh btw they bite you till you die, you die you become one of them. Its kinda like you know an Army being built perhaps with one mind like a big old evil alien or whatever fixes your ship. You know all one goal, rid the planet of those damned souls (humanity).


Btw Bruce Campell ROCKS.


"Who wants some? Huh! Who wants some?.... ... you? You... do you want some huh? HUH!"

"You got reaaal ugly reall quick"
One of the few times I find myself agreeing with RT :rolleyes:

It's a zombie flick, boys. If you ask me, the whole notion of trying to make the zombies into a disease killed the notion of what zombies are supposed to be: Bad ass walking tanks that move slowly, and have an intense craving for brains.

Basically, who cares how it works, just bring it back to their roots
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ILL WILL
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Post by ILL WILL »

Originally posted by Aegis
One of the few times I find myself agreeing with RT :rolleyes:

It's a zombie flick, boys. If you ask me, the whole notion of trying to make the zombies into a disease killed the notion of what zombies are supposed to be: Bad ass walking tanks that move slowly, and have an intense craving for brains.

Basically, who cares how it works, just bring it back to their roots


Yeah that's just as good an explanation as anything else.
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Post by der Moench »

Originally posted by RandomThug
...Btw Bruce Campell ROCKS.


"Who wants some? Huh! Who wants some?.... ... you? You... do you want some huh? HUH!"

"You got reaaal ugly reall quick"
Oh, yeah! :D
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Post by Bloodthroe »

Originally posted by RandomThug
Btw Bruce Campell ROCKS.

Bad Ash: Your Good Ash. I'm Bad Ash.

Good Ash: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.
I kill two dwarves in the morning, I kill two dwarves at night. I kill two dwarves in the afternoon, and then I feel alright. I kill two dwarves in time of peace and two in time of war. I kill two dwarves before I kill two dwarves, and then I kill two more.
I may be bad, but I feel good.
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Post by Bloodthroe »

Another reason why I don’t think these are zombies is because in the movie the black father was shot, because he went crazy. They said to shoot him in the head before he turned, but the nurse girl said he wasn’t bitten so don’t shoot him. They never shot him in the head, and he never turned. Is why I think they aren’t zombies in this movie, just infected freaks. Plus they don’t act like zombies. They have no proof hell has any play in this. They made it to look like a virus gone horribly wrong.
I kill two dwarves in the morning, I kill two dwarves at night. I kill two dwarves in the afternoon, and then I feel alright. I kill two dwarves in time of peace and two in time of war. I kill two dwarves before I kill two dwarves, and then I kill two more.
I may be bad, but I feel good.
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Post by RandomThug »

? Act like zombies. How exactly do these creatures act. Fantasy!!!!


The black father was never bitten.
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ILL WILL
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Post by ILL WILL »

Originally posted by RandomThug
? Act like zombies. How exactly do these creatures act. Fantasy!!!!


The black father was never bitten.


Does he mean mekhi phiefer?

I think part of the allure of the movie is that you don't really know whether its hell or a virus.

I think the hell explanation might be better, maybe just cuz I think it's more apocolyptic
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Post by InfiniteNature »

If the hell explanation made sense, then it wouldn't spread by bite, they would just get up without being bitten, because apparently hell is full, and they would not be able to be killed. No its spread by bite ergo there is some physical component to it.

And by the way Romero's conception of the bite being the causatative factor goes way back before any modern zombie concepts (actually most of the zombie concepts derive from his movies, the ones that are supposably back in the good old days) , he's always put in a physical motive as well as putting in some other more supernatural motive. He doesn't describe them as evil necessarily just animals really but human too. He mainly leaves it up to the movie watcher to figure out, like in the beginning

Evil smevil, the zombies are quite human, and that's the point Romero makes, that their is little to distinguish them from us. That given the chance we'd eat human flesh, that by running through the rat maze of commercialism over and over we are nearly indistinguishable from those shambling peaces of dead.

So the movie is a take on commercialism, human nature, and its kickass horror movie. The central message being that humans will eat themselves, that society eats itself and kills any with real humanity.

The hell reason is kind of funny, because if one takes it serously it means that there are lot of people who go to hell, even the ones that think they are going to heaven.

:)
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Post by RandomThug »

(Quote from some other webpost)
To me, the main reasons that DAWN '78 still holds its appeal are its intelligence, prescience, and involving plot and characters.
It's not meant to be scary as such - it's not a boo-scare kind of film. It's an allegory for contemporary life wrapped in an action/horror (and in Romero's cuts - comedy) framework. I find it unsettling.
The whole point of the zombies is their slowness - they begin as a threat, but are then seen to be easily evaded if careful. We learn that they are only acting on basic impulses, and are not the true danger. It's the actions of the living that are the true source of horror due to their irrationality, greed and viciousness.
If it was hell being overfull there is no freakin explantion needed on why it travels with a bite. Personally I dont think the bite at all is what transfers them into the zombie, I think the bites just death. It kills them, like a poison. Because there evil, zombies. Demons. Vile supernatural creatures that do not exist. The poison hence kills them and when they die thier soul goes to where it belongs...

And sense this is a most definite view of an apocolyptic event one can see the ties with heaven/hell easily. I once was told of some religous deal where jesus comes back to earth and those souls who are saved leave with him and the damned are (either replaced or left there with demons). Perhaps it is God himself considering humanity unfit for living in his world, perhaps its not just hell being too full perhaps its gods desire to end hell itself.

It's just funny to even "argue" this because well you cant say "It wouldnt be spread by bite" beause its ALL FANTASY. I could argue its the muppets behind it all, and since no explantion in the movie is given. I am as right as you are.


I just believe that the common themes between these movies is that humanity is wrong and vile (living) and that hell is full. So sure you wanna say its a movie about people consuming themselves. I say its a movie about zombies that like brains and one shouldn't look to far for answers.
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Post by RandomThug »

The hell reason is kind of funny, because if one takes it serously it means that there are lot of people who go to hell, even the ones that think they are going to heaven.
Oh yeah and btw if you follow strictly to religion rules and bylines well I am definitly going to hell, and so is a whole crap load of people. If one god is right say Jesus and God and the holy ghost is the almighty answer then all the buddhists, all the jews all the mormons etc, going to hell. So yes I believe in this fantasy movie it is the fact that humanity has sinned so much that the existance of life is forfiet and we must all pay. Zombies are zombies...
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Post by Bloodthroe »

Originally posted by InfiniteNature
If the hell explanation made sense, then it wouldn't spread by bite, they would just get up without being bitten, because apparently hell is full, and they would not be able to be killed. No its spread by bite ergo there is some physical component to it.

And by the way Romero's conception of the bite being the causatative factor goes way back before any modern zombie concepts (actually most of the zombie concepts derive from his movies, the ones that are supposably back in the good old days) , he's always put in a physical motive as well as putting in some other more supernatural motive. He doesn't describe them as evil necessarily just animals really but human too. He mainly leaves it up to the movie watcher to figure out, like in the beginning

Evil smevil, the zombies are quite human, and that's the point Romero makes, that their is little to distinguish them from us. That given the chance we'd eat human flesh, that by running through the rat maze of commercialism over and over we are nearly indistinguishable from those shambling peaces of dead.

So the movie is a take on commercialism, human nature, and its kickass horror movie. The central message being that humans will eat themselves, that society eats itself and kills any with real humanity.

The hell reason is kind of funny, because if one takes it serously it means that there are lot of people who go to hell, even the ones that think they are going to heaven.

:)



uhm when the president or whoever said that hell was full, I don’t think that was an explanation, just him being hopeless. I think this mainly because when the black guy that was a father died, because they shot him for going crazy, he didn’t turn into a zombie. This further proves what the nurse said, that it’s the bites that cause the people to turn. Plus the infected people don’t act like any zombie I’ve ever heard of.
I kill two dwarves in the morning, I kill two dwarves at night. I kill two dwarves in the afternoon, and then I feel alright. I kill two dwarves in time of peace and two in time of war. I kill two dwarves before I kill two dwarves, and then I kill two more.
I may be bad, but I feel good.
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ILL WILL
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Post by ILL WILL »

Originally posted by Bloodthroe
uhm when the president or whoever said that hell was full, I don’t think that was an explanation, just him being hopeless. I think this mainly because when the black guy that was a father died, because they shot him for going crazy, he didn’t turn into a zombie. This further proves what the nurse said, that it’s the bites that cause the people to turn. Plus the infected people don’t act like any zombie I’ve ever heard of.


As much as I'd like to, I can't disagree with you on this. ;-)

If the dead were closed off from Hell, then everyone who died (or just about everyone) would rise as zombies. Only those who die from infection rise. Everyone else stays dead.

This supports the notion that it is in fact a virus or something like that.

One note about the fantasy thing. It is no more silly to debate this topic than it is to discuss how to be successful in a romance with a half elven druid in a fantasy world called faerun while you are on your way to assume the throne of a dead god.

I started the topic, but did so with license to be able to discuss a completely silly (and geeky!) thing. That's why we are all here on these boards: so we can talk about stuff that most people would give us more than a funny look if they heard us talk about it in real life.
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Post by RandomThug »

Apologies if I appear rude in this discussion its just I feel that the appeal of the fact it is Supernatural and hell has something to do with it makes it 100 times more appealing and scary and fun. Rationalizing stuff like this I feel takes away from the mysticsm of the undead. Like I said its like figuring out what dna would be needed to give a horse a horn, rather than "its magic"


Ohhh Also in the first version as well as this one there is a scene were someone refers to it as hell is overflown. It's the only semi explantion given so I feel thats the vibe I'd like to see.
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ILL WILL
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Post by ILL WILL »

Originally posted by RandomThug
Apologies if I appear rude in this discussion its just I feel that the appeal of the fact it is Supernatural and hell has something to do with it makes it 100 times more appealing and scary and fun. Rationalizing stuff like this I feel takes away from the mysticsm of the undead. Like I said its like figuring out what dna would be needed to give a horse a horn, rather than "its magic"


Ohhh Also in the first version as well as this one there is a scene were someone refers to it as hell is overflown. It's the only semi explantion given so I feel thats the vibe I'd like to see.


I don't think you appear rude at all.

I also completely see what you're saying: that it would be way cooler to think of the whole thing as supernatural as opposed to scientific. The more you analyze the supernatural, the less supernatural there is, and therefore the less mystiery there is.

The way I look at the discussion is kinda neat too, though. I like writing these questions from the perspective of someone that is actually going through what the people in those movies were going through.

Like, what if we were all holed-up and trying to outlast the world full of monsters, and were looking for a way to survive and even start a new humanity? We would have to get together and spit up theories on how to do it. Part of that is theorizing about how to beat the monsters.

In any case, I think the new Dawn of the Dead was hot!
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Post by RandomThug »

Ditto on the hotness.

I guess the evil in me likes to see these movies and the people as hopeless. Like the alternate ending in the first where the girl kills herself and in this one the deaths.

There is no escape type thing really gets me goin.
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