Dragon Kind???

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:09 am

Possible Spoilers

I wanted to start this thread about dragons so take it a run, (or flY), with it if you can. I've played Bg series with all expansions, (no major mods) once through and then now my second time in progress.
I've played the IceWind dale series as well. (I know this is not an IceWind Dale foreum so I will not run away with it to much. I woped the dragons In IceWind usally first time around. i thought them easy.
I've played these series in totallity through twice since my second attempt at the BG line. (So I may be not thinking straight but I thought the dragons in BG were easy too.

I just beet the shadow dragon and will take on the rest soon enough.
Sheeze, I reloaded like ten times. I must say I am impressed it was even that difficult. Have any of you found this to be true as well.

What breath weapon does a Shadow Dragon use, it seems pretty tough?
It drained like 4/then2/then4 levels then death.
It says in manuel that exp is lowest for this dragon, but i'm thinking the others will be easer.

[COLOR=Black]Shadoww Ruler[/color]

araknid70 · Post by **araknid70** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:13 am

Well, the draining of levels should tell you... It breathes vampiric breath. Just wear an amulet of power or something that protects against level draining ( like improved Mace of Disruption).

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:44 am

Ah, finally somebody who admits having trouble with dragons too. Normally comments on fights with dragons are filled to the brim with remarks about how easy it is to beat them. Well, for me not one of them was easy to defeat. Not during my first run through the game and not during my second either. After that it became a little more relaxed.

CrownHead · Post by **CrownHead** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:11 am

I agree. Sure I know tactics to beat them easily, but it each tactic only works like 1/12 times.

While I'm on the topic of dragons, does anybody have like a complete list of their breath weapons? That is including purple dragon, multi colored dragon, aqua dragon, etc.

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:34 am

[QUOTE=Patrick]
It says in manuel that exp is lowest for this dragon, but i'm thinking the others will be easer.[/QUOTE]

May I suggest you take a trip to the Windspear Hills next?

Albert Rose · Post by **Albert Rose** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:37 am

I "cheated" when fighting the Red Dragon in

Spoiler

the Windspear Hills

. I had my bounty hunter set all the traps she could, while the dragon just watched in its non-hostile way. Once my pre-buffed party attacked, the traps went off and caused lots of damage. It was just a matter of time after that.

I always bring a bounty hunter (my PC or Yoshimo) when I know I'll be taking on tough baddies.

Locke Da'averan · Post by **Locke Da'averan** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:16 am

well of course the dragons are easy, but simply because of the poor AI.. use the improved AI and you're in for a fight.. had to remove it since after i got the red dragon down to badly hurt/almost dead it started to run around it lair using wing buff twice/second until all my chars where dead..

BGMaster · Post by **BGMaster** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:49 am

[QUOTE=Coot]Ah, finally somebody who admits having trouble with dragons too. Normally comments on fights with dragons are filled to the brim with remarks about how easy it is to beat them. [/QUOTE]

Obviously those people did not face Draconis. That took me so many tries. He is easily the hardest Dragon in the trilogy. He was harder than Demogorgon which I actually beat on my first try. But other times I had to restart...lucky time I guess.

The Icewind Dale dragons are not really dragons but like baby dragons if I remember correctly. They were like wyrmlings. BG2's dragons take half the screen. They are adult dragons (is that what you call them -- not too familiar with D&D dragon lore). IWD dragons were a piece of cake compared to BG2's.

I found the Shadow dragon to be the easiest. Red being the hardest (and no I don't use the cloudkill cheese) especially on lower levels.

You should try to beat the Red dragon first so you will get Casomyr. That helps a lot against dragons IMO. Also if you beat the Red Dragon chances are that you got "special" weapons against dragons in the dungeon just before meeting him.

I also like having one wizard that just basically magically missiles (a whole ton). I must also mention that I often leave dragons until the end when I have a high level. So I leave windspear and umar hills until it is before time to go to the elf village. So sometimes I already have the silver vorpal sword which makes any fight against a dragon much more easier.

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:31 pm

So what is the improved AI and what does it do and where could one get it. thanks.
Also who is Draconis? I am thinking this must be a mod?????????

Also what is the cloud kill technique?? Or does it just speak for its self?

Thanks for the help with you replys?
Maybe someone can anwser CrownHead

araknid70 · Post by **araknid70** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:47 pm

Nope, Draconis doesn't come from a mod, he's in Throne of Bhaal. However Improved AI for dragons is in the Tactics Mod. Well, considering that you find the vanilla dragons so difficult, and haven't even tried Draconis, perhaps you should leave Tactics for later.

The 'cloudkill technique' refers to the trick (cheese) of casting several cloudkills just before the edge of the fog of war where the dragon is. As the dragon isn't immune to cloudkill he gets the damage without attacking your party, as the fog of war totally covers the dragon. I.e. rather rich cheese, perhaps only fake talk is worse.

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:46 pm

Any more info on tactics and improved AI please. Like how has this affected the game overall.

Thrain · Post by **Thrain** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:47 am

improved AI makes creatures act more intelligently, like if they have healing spells they will heal themselves, or they willl try and hide to regenerate

makes battles all the more complicated

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:10 am

[QUOTE=Patrick]So what is the improved AI and what does it do and where could one get it. thanks.
Also who is Draconis? I am thinking this must be a mod?????????

Also what is the cloud kill technique?? Or does it just speak for its self?

Thanks for the help with you replys?
Maybe someone can anwser CrownHead[/QUOTE]

You will definitely meet Draconis if you play Throne of Bhaal. He will be quite a challenge to kill!

Cloudkill technique? Maybe casting Web or Entangle on your enemies to prevent them reaching you and then weaken them with a Cloudkill spell? That's definitely useful in the early stages!

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:44 am

[QUOTE=Patrick]So what is the improved AI and what does it do and where could one get it. thanks.
Also who is Draconis? I am thinking this must be a mod?????????

Also what is the cloud kill technique?? Or does it just speak for its self?

Thanks for the help with you replys?
Maybe someone can anwser CrownHead[/QUOTE]

Improved AI is found in game MODifications, such as the tactics mod Here

Draconis is in the Throne of Bhaal, expansion and continuation of BG II:Shadows of Amn.

The cloud kill technique involves using cloudkills to do in enemies offscreen (targeted with a wizard eye, or what have you) - send in enough cloudkills on an enemy that can't see you, and they will just stand there and breathe poison gas untill they die. It's a cheese tactic.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:46 am

SPOILERS AHEAD

I never use cheese ever...just many reloads. It really depends on your party, as well...with the right tactics, you can have all dragons down within a round. For example, the dragon in Suldanessellar, the one in Watcher's Keep, Draconis, and Abazigal all went down very quickly, since I just used Spell Triggers and Whirlwinds.

However, the red dragon remains the toughest dragon battle for me, since I've always attempted him with a level 9 to 11 party...its a very tough battle.

Dragons are very annoying if you have low HP characters that get insta-gibbed with their breath.

I've never bothered with Tactics because insane battles aren't really my cup of tea, but the Improved Abazigal fight that comes with Ascension is by far the hardest fight ever, since you face off with Abazigal (human form and then dragon form), another dragon, and several Wyverns. You want a non-cheesy dragon battle, this is by far the hardest. Apparently the multi-dragon battle in Tactics is VERY cheesy...

The red dragon remains one of my favourite battles because the dungeon leading up to him is awesome, and then he himself is very hard as long as you're not too high a level.

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:02 pm

So Draconis is in Watchers keep?? What kind of Dragon is it?? Also there is aniother in Throne Of Bhaal, right, Abazigal?? What and where is he??

And yes I have played before but its been over a year.

CrownHead · Post by **CrownHead** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:30 pm

I'll tell you, but you should know first that there will be
SPOILERS

|

|

|

|

|

|

|

|

|

|

There are five dragons that I can think of in ToB (including Watcher's Keep). Draconis is not in Watcher's Keep, he is at the entrance to Abizagal's Lair, and he's a brown dragon I think. There are three altogether in Abizagal's Lair, one of which you don't have to fight, the other two are Draconis and Abazigal, who you are required to fight.

There are also two in Watcher's Keep, as far as I know atleast. (correct me if I'm wrong.)

flounder · Post by **flounder** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:36 pm

"cheese" traps

Is it considered "cheese" if you use a strategy (I.E. setting traps) without consulting anyone or anything and just solve it for yourself? I beat the Red Dragon on my 2nd try, my 1st time playing, setting the standard amount of traps for my Bounty Hunter (which I think was 6 - 3 normal and 3 special) without resting or anything. Just curious...

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:41 pm

Cheese isn't a matter of discovering something yourself, or hearing it from others. Cheese is simply finding loopholes in the code that enable you to beat something outside of the game rules. Such as the Cloudkill destruction of dragons who sit there, when logically they'd roar into action.

flounder · Post by **flounder** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:07 pm

so then...

is it "cheese" to use (the legitimate amount) traps? Is that taking advantage of the code? I don't consider myself a "cheeser", Hide In Shadows and lay traps, I used it all the time. I was just curious as to what others thought. I thought it was being somewhat savvy.