Eventhough this is off topic in here, I'll still just give my view - I would personally say morrowind is not all that good.
It is very very bland; it is a nice nice looking scenery graphics but with a dull bland gameworld, NPCs and quests.
After the first "awe" over the reflective water, the game held little substance.
I also dislike the way Morrowind allows for all characters to do everything, it makes it less about actual character development and simply about leveling high enough. No consequences in choosing one skill over another.
Now - with the masses of mods. out for the PC version - I'm sure the game has gotten a lot better, but the "vanillia" installation disapered fast from my harddrive.
I liked SW:KotOR much much more then Morrowind - but they both pale (in my oppinion) in comparison with the Baldurs Gate series
[QUOTE=BGMaster]Really why?[/QUOTE]
Because Bioware has dissapointed me with the "dumped" down cRPGs of NwN and SW:KotOR, and Obsidian Ent. has yet to release something to let me down. It seems very much as cRPGs took a step down after the success of Baldurs Gate series instead of a step up. It also seems almost as a crime to actually expect the player to think instead of serving up solutions on a sliver platter - which I very much felt NwN and SW:KotOR did.
How good is KotOR?
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fable
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[QUOTE=BGMaster]Baldur's Gate was epic. It had over 100 hours of gameplay. There is no way ANY RPG has even come close to the depth of Baldur's Gate. It was the first RPG game that made me care about EVERYONE in my party especially BG2 and TOB...outstanding.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I'd say Planescape: Torment had considerably more depth. And quite a few RPGs in the past have offered 100+ hours of gameplay. Each to their own, but my point was simply that the makers of BG2 moved backwards in KotoR: far less character interaction, far more linear, far less playing time.
Actually, I'd say Planescape: Torment had considerably more depth. And quite a few RPGs in the past have offered 100+ hours of gameplay. Each to their own, but my point was simply that the makers of BG2 moved backwards in KotoR: far less character interaction, far more linear, far less playing time.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
[QUOTE=fable]Actually, I'd say Planescape: Torment had considerably more depth. And quite a few RPGs in the past have offered 100+ hours of gameplay. Each to their own, but my point was simply that the makers of BG2 moved backwards in KotoR: far less character interaction, far more linear, far less playing time. [/QUOTE]
You have to take the engine into concern. Also the Star Wars RPG is less flexible than D&D IMO. If BG2 had been converted to KOTOR's engine with every conversion having voice overs the amount of memory and disks it would take would set a record! Also, another thing of note is that KOTOR was also produced for the XBox. Console owners are often less patient than PC players.
I just don't think you can compare KOTOR to BG2. I also don't think Planescape was more in depth. The conversations were better (some of the best RPG writing in that game) but BG2 like I said made me care about all my party members even the romances. Most RPGs you only really care about the protaganist and nothing else. Also, the depth of BG2 is incredible...the class related quests, specific NPC quests, specific NPC party interactions (really makes you think who to pick up and who not to pick up). Add TOB to the equation and it becomes even more epic especially after adding Gaider's ending upgrade. Even little things like Rumar. There was just so much "life" in BG2...it's hard to explain. But it all contributed to it feeling very "epic". Which I agree that KOTOR is missing. But like I said if KOTOR had all those stuff the amount of disks would be astounding! But KOTOR has great character interactions (HK-47 is like the new Minsc...HK-47 was even voted the best videogame sidekick of all-time by gamespy). But there isn't as much as BG2. What was great about BG2 also was that the interactions did not feel "linear"...I don't know if that makes sense.
Also to the poster about Morrowind. Honestly I didn't find Morrowind great at all. It was just graphically great but hey not all things are objective because you thought BG2 sucked and I still think it is the pinnacle of single player experience RPG.
To Xandax, Obsidian didn't even release anything yet. I don't know I am just not a huge fan of the IWD series although it was still a great RPG. But Fallout was great but I agree all cRPGs seem to take a step down from BG2 but that is a testament of BG2 (like I said I still think it is the pinnacle - just compare the number of posts on these forums). But if I were to compare RPG videogames now to the mid and early 90s...I would definitely prefer today. It just depends how you see it. But as far as KOTOR 2 goes, I'm gonna wait for the reviews before purchasing.
[/QUOTE]You have to take the engine into concern. Also the Star Wars RPG is less flexible than D&D IMO. If BG2 had been converted to KOTOR's engine with every conversion having voice overs the amount of memory and disks it would take would set a record! Also, another thing of note is that KOTOR was also produced for the XBox. Console owners are often less patient than PC players.
I just don't think you can compare KOTOR to BG2. I also don't think Planescape was more in depth. The conversations were better (some of the best RPG writing in that game) but BG2 like I said made me care about all my party members even the romances. Most RPGs you only really care about the protaganist and nothing else. Also, the depth of BG2 is incredible...the class related quests, specific NPC quests, specific NPC party interactions (really makes you think who to pick up and who not to pick up). Add TOB to the equation and it becomes even more epic especially after adding Gaider's ending upgrade. Even little things like Rumar. There was just so much "life" in BG2...it's hard to explain. But it all contributed to it feeling very "epic". Which I agree that KOTOR is missing. But like I said if KOTOR had all those stuff the amount of disks would be astounding! But KOTOR has great character interactions (HK-47 is like the new Minsc...HK-47 was even voted the best videogame sidekick of all-time by gamespy). But there isn't as much as BG2. What was great about BG2 also was that the interactions did not feel "linear"...I don't know if that makes sense.
Also to the poster about Morrowind. Honestly I didn't find Morrowind great at all. It was just graphically great but hey not all things are objective because you thought BG2 sucked and I still think it is the pinnacle of single player experience RPG.
To Xandax, Obsidian didn't even release anything yet. I don't know I am just not a huge fan of the IWD series although it was still a great RPG. But Fallout was great but I agree all cRPGs seem to take a step down from BG2 but that is a testament of BG2 (like I said I still think it is the pinnacle - just compare the number of posts on these forums). But if I were to compare RPG videogames now to the mid and early 90s...I would definitely prefer today. It just depends how you see it. But as far as KOTOR 2 goes, I'm gonna wait for the reviews before purchasing.
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fable
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[QUOTE=BGMaster]You have to take the engine into concern. Also the Star Wars RPG is less flexible than D&D IMO. If BG2 had been converted to KOTOR's engine with every conversion having voice overs the amount of memory and disks it would take would set a record! Also, another thing of note is that KOTOR was also produced for the XBox. Console owners are often less patient than PC players.[/quote]
I never said there was a dearth of good reasons for KotoR's dumbing-down of the BG series formula. I could even add one more: the Bioware team was working with a new graphical engine, and that always means a 1-2 year period developing familiarity with what its benefits and flaws. BG1 took a lot longer than BG2 to produce for that reason, in part.
I was simply focusing on the results, and I still think they're pertinent.
I just don't think you can compare KOTOR to BG2. I also don't think Planescape was more in depth.
We'll have to disagree on these points, then. The two games share a genre, were developed by the same company, and used an identical entertainment paradigm. In my opinion, this makes for excellent grounds for comparison. Again, we're looking at the games themselves, though taking into account differenes in development resources and marketing hype.
As for PS:T, I do agree that BG2 supplied greater variety and interactive possibilites. The producer once told me that his team had learned a lot from what BIS did with PS:T when it came to developing BG2; and they clearly looked at Jagged Alliance, too, with its rowdy, argumenative, apparently self-willed mercs in formulating those wonderfully interactive party members. Where PS:T surpasses BG2 is in the depth and complexity of its storyline, and the resonance it offers that goes far beyond the traditional RPG formula of "you, a nothing, are actually the son/daughter/successor of the Lord High Everything." This is what I meant when I referred to PS:T's depth. I meant depth of story; I suspect you meant depth of personal interest.
I never said there was a dearth of good reasons for KotoR's dumbing-down of the BG series formula. I could even add one more: the Bioware team was working with a new graphical engine, and that always means a 1-2 year period developing familiarity with what its benefits and flaws. BG1 took a lot longer than BG2 to produce for that reason, in part.
I was simply focusing on the results, and I still think they're pertinent.
I just don't think you can compare KOTOR to BG2. I also don't think Planescape was more in depth.
We'll have to disagree on these points, then. The two games share a genre, were developed by the same company, and used an identical entertainment paradigm. In my opinion, this makes for excellent grounds for comparison. Again, we're looking at the games themselves, though taking into account differenes in development resources and marketing hype.
As for PS:T, I do agree that BG2 supplied greater variety and interactive possibilites. The producer once told me that his team had learned a lot from what BIS did with PS:T when it came to developing BG2; and they clearly looked at Jagged Alliance, too, with its rowdy, argumenative, apparently self-willed mercs in formulating those wonderfully interactive party members. Where PS:T surpasses BG2 is in the depth and complexity of its storyline, and the resonance it offers that goes far beyond the traditional RPG formula of "you, a nothing, are actually the son/daughter/successor of the Lord High Everything." This is what I meant when I referred to PS:T's depth. I meant depth of story; I suspect you meant depth of personal interest.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Just to clarify BGMaster, I said I thought BG: DA2 sucked, not BG2 (or is there a difference?). And you're absolutely right, it's a matter of opinion. One of the things I liked about KotOR over BG A2 was, although not completely open, you do have some choice as to what quests you want to complete and in what order. I admit Morrowind was mostly populated by very generic NPCs, but given the number of NPCs can you really blame them? I'm still speaking out of ignorance in respect to the BG world though.
edit: apparently BG: DA2 makes a smiley if you dont space it
A2 was, although not completely open, you do have some choice as to what quests you want to complete and in what order. I admit Morrowind was mostly populated by very generic NPCs, but given the number of NPCs can you really blame them? I'm still speaking out of ignorance in respect to the BG world though.edit: apparently BG: DA2 makes a smiley if you dont space it
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[QUOTE=fable]I just don't think you can compare KOTOR to BG2. I also don't think Planescape was more in depth.
We'll have to disagree on these points, then. The two games share a genre, were developed by the same company, and used an identical entertainment paradigm. In my opinion, this makes for excellent grounds for comparison. [/QUOTE]
The bold text looks like a Dutch expression, which means: "I think BG2 is far better than KotOR". Maybe that's what he means.
We'll have to disagree on these points, then. The two games share a genre, were developed by the same company, and used an identical entertainment paradigm. In my opinion, this makes for excellent grounds for comparison. [/QUOTE]
The bold text looks like a Dutch expression, which means: "I think BG2 is far better than KotOR". Maybe that's what he means.
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fable
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It's an English expression, too, not that common anymore, and had a counterpart that could be written as "I don't think you can begin to compare A with B." That doesn't alter my opinion regarding either their respective merits or their comparability, but yes, the meaning is possible.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
"But as far as KOTOR 2 goes, I'm gonna wait for the reviews before purchasing." Writen by BGMaster
just 2 let u know the reviews will probably come out before the game itself. just look at Fable, it's a week before the game comes out and there are reviews everywhere.
personally i didn't really care for the BG series (i didn't like the combat system)
just 2 let u know the reviews will probably come out before the game itself. just look at Fable, it's a week before the game comes out and there are reviews everywhere.
personally i didn't really care for the BG series (i didn't like the combat system)
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
JOIN ME!!! JOIN THE SITH!!!
KotOR is definitely a lot more linear than it would like to make out. You don't really notice the first time through if you ask me, but the second time you really realise it! Definitely worth buying, but don't expect it to last you forever!
Not played BG/BG2 yet, but so far I haven't found an RPG that has well and truly blown me away on the story side. KotOR was good, and better than some of the Star Wars films, and I think all 3 NWN stories are pretty good (personal opinion here). But when I sit back and think about it there wasn't as much there as there seemed.
Hoping Obsidian do a good job on all fronts, obviously! I think its more lack of big titles that you assocaite with Obsidian that is worrying people rather than a bunch of really disappointing games. I'd heard of them, but couldn't tell you any of their games!
Not played BG/BG2 yet, but so far I haven't found an RPG that has well and truly blown me away on the story side. KotOR was good, and better than some of the Star Wars films, and I think all 3 NWN stories are pretty good (personal opinion here). But when I sit back and think about it there wasn't as much there as there seemed.
Hoping Obsidian do a good job on all fronts, obviously! I think its more lack of big titles that you assocaite with Obsidian that is worrying people rather than a bunch of really disappointing games. I'd heard of them, but couldn't tell you any of their games!
Trouts are best tickled in muddy waters