hi
could I please have some tips for which classes to create in IWD II. I have played IWD and BG II.
which classes are useful and what to avoid.
I was thinking of 3 fighter types, 1 fight/th, 1 cleric, 1 mage
whats the point of pure fighter class in IWD II because they seem to lack abilities.
do you need a pure thief or can you multi-class a thief and still get by?
which party
Well, my advise is to create pure characters. You'll definitely need a thief (it's worth to make it a pure rouge, he'll get cool feats at higher levels, like Evasion and stuff), a fighter, of course, and a mage. It's best to have a single-class mage, this way his range of spells will improve faster, and you'll need high level magic very soon!
A cleric is useful, too, maybe that can be dual-classed to a fighter/cleric so that he will be more efficient in battle than a single clreic would be.
For the last two I'd choose warriors. Maybe you should try a druid, that char is not very useful in battle but has some good spells (e.g. Call lightning) and feats (Transform Animal) and is interesting to play. You can leave the last place empty, this way more xp will be shared among the five players
A cleric is useful, too, maybe that can be dual-classed to a fighter/cleric so that he will be more efficient in battle than a single clreic would be.
For the last two I'd choose warriors. Maybe you should try a druid, that char is not very useful in battle but has some good spells (e.g. Call lightning) and feats (Transform Animal) and is interesting to play. You can leave the last place empty, this way more xp will be shared among the five players
Up the IRONS!
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jagguy
I can't tell exactly, but I'm approx. halfway and my chars are around 10-12 level (I have a full party of six).
You don't need to worry about not being powerful enough with a new party. The challenges usually grow with you, the enemies you face will match your powers. If you do as many quests and killing as possible, you'll get enough xp
About clerics: at the beginning they don't have very powerful healing spells, that's true, but at higher levels they're really cool. Maybe it's better to duall class them e.g. like fighter/cleric, this way they'll be efficient in combat and meanwhile improve their spells.
You don't need to worry about not being powerful enough with a new party. The challenges usually grow with you, the enemies you face will match your powers. If you do as many quests and killing as possible, you'll get enough xp
About clerics: at the beginning they don't have very powerful healing spells, that's true, but at higher levels they're really cool. Maybe it's better to duall class them e.g. like fighter/cleric, this way they'll be efficient in combat and meanwhile improve their spells.
Up the IRONS!
[QUOTE=Brynn]Well, my advise is to create pure characters. You'll definitely need a thief (it's worth to make it a pure rouge, he'll get cool feats at higher levels, like Evasion and stuff), a fighter, of course, and a mage. It's best to have a single-class mage, this way his range of spells will improve faster, and you'll need high level magic very soon! [/QUOTE]
I agree with brynn, even if I think that a thief, altought cool, it's not so useful: I had a drow pc rogue(1)/conjurer (x)with dex and int maximized: if you give him thief abilities when he acquires level he can be quite effective as a thief plus a lots of spells
I agree with brynn, even if I think that a thief, altought cool, it's not so useful: I had a drow pc rogue(1)/conjurer (x)with dex and int maximized: if you give him thief abilities when he acquires level he can be quite effective as a thief plus a lots of spells
In general the rogue is not the most efficient character, that's true, but when in dungeon or town his trap detecting and lock picking abilities are invaluable. It would be much harder to get around those areas without his skills. And at higher level he gets pretty good feats. Summary: it's worth it to have one in the party
Up the IRONS!
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jagguy
Thief is best combined with fighter, I think, b/c of the high dexterity. Monks don't have thief skills, bards can pickpocket and detect traps, but can't disable them.
Paladins - they need high charisma scores, so you can share less point on other abilities. What's more, their alignment is restricted to lawful good, which can get you in trouble... E.g. --> I entered Dagrab's dungeon with my paladin in the first place. When the dwarf mentioned that the soldiers around were slaves, my paladin gave answers that led to fight. With my mage (chatoic good) there were more options for what to answer. <--
Also, paladins tend to refuse rewards for quests, so make sure it's not your paladin talking when you're going to collect your well-earned money.
Rangers - they have spellcasting abilities, but will be able to cast only a few spells. They get Hide as well, but can't use it while wearing heavy armor.
I say fighter is the best, b/c he can be proficient with many weapons and may wear any kind of armor. No class/alignment restrictions.
Paladins - they need high charisma scores, so you can share less point on other abilities. What's more, their alignment is restricted to lawful good, which can get you in trouble... E.g. --> I entered Dagrab's dungeon with my paladin in the first place. When the dwarf mentioned that the soldiers around were slaves, my paladin gave answers that led to fight. With my mage (chatoic good) there were more options for what to answer. <--
Also, paladins tend to refuse rewards for quests, so make sure it's not your paladin talking when you're going to collect your well-earned money.
Rangers - they have spellcasting abilities, but will be able to cast only a few spells. They get Hide as well, but can't use it while wearing heavy armor.
I say fighter is the best, b/c he can be proficient with many weapons and may wear any kind of armor. No class/alignment restrictions.
Up the IRONS!
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jagguy
I have been reading the manual and I am a little puzzled by the Skills in the game.
With the Skill of a class that means a thief can have their skills but if I cris-cross skills I can make a mage 'pick pockets' at half ........so any class can have thief skills at a price.....so I can get away with any class having thief skills and so I dont need a thief ...is this right?
With the Skill of a class that means a thief can have their skills but if I cris-cross skills I can make a mage 'pick pockets' at half ........so any class can have thief skills at a price.....so I can get away with any class having thief skills and so I dont need a thief ...is this right?
[QUOTE=jagguy]I have been reading the manual and I am a little puzzled by the Skills in the game.
With the Skill of a class that means a thief can have their skills but if I cris-cross skills I can make a mage 'pick pockets' at half ........so any class can have thief skills at a price.....so I can get away with any class having thief skills and so I dont need a thief ...is this right?[/QUOTE]
Yes, you're right. As I told before I have a drow thief/mage that, due to high int and dex, has a decent value of thief skill (open locks, search, and so on).
Sure, a rogue would have better skill values, but you don't really need them in the game, and wizard spell can be really powerful.
Anyway, the most important thing is fun, I like having two sorcerors and a wizard, so I can destroy enemies in few rounds thanks to their power, but if you like having a pure rogue to backstab and similar there's no problem, it's your game ;-)
With the Skill of a class that means a thief can have their skills but if I cris-cross skills I can make a mage 'pick pockets' at half ........so any class can have thief skills at a price.....so I can get away with any class having thief skills and so I dont need a thief ...is this right?[/QUOTE]
Yes, you're right. As I told before I have a drow thief/mage that, due to high int and dex, has a decent value of thief skill (open locks, search, and so on).
Sure, a rogue would have better skill values, but you don't really need them in the game, and wizard spell can be really powerful.
Anyway, the most important thing is fun, I like having two sorcerors and a wizard, so I can destroy enemies in few rounds thanks to their power, but if you like having a pure rogue to backstab and similar there's no problem, it's your game ;-)
[QUOTE=jagguy]which classes are useful and what to avoid?[/QUOTE]
All classes can be useful. That's one of the beauties of IWD2. Multi-class is completely different than it was in IWD. IWD2 you can multi-class at any level up and in most cases you can switch back and forth and multi-class to as many different classes as you want. There are things to watch for when planning to multi-class. You have to consider your character's favorite class and the number of levels in each class. If two classes are more than one level apart and one of those classes is not a favorite class, then you will incur an xp penalty per level difference. Also, Monks and Paladins have orders that limit what they can multi-class to and from. This only means that if you have a Monk and multi-class to something other than the order's favorite class that you can not go back and pick up Monk levels at a later level up.
[QUOTE=jagguy]I was thinking of 3 fighter types, 1 fight/th, 1 cleric, 1 mage[/QUOTE]
That pretty much covers the basis. Only recommendation I would have is to drop a fighter for a Sorceror and make your other mage a specialist.
[QUOTE=jagguy]whats the point of pure fighter class in IWD II because they seem to lack abilities?[/QUOTE]
Pure Fighter will get you a ton of feats. Fighters get an extra feat at level one and every even level up. So a level 4 Fighter will receive 5 feats (3 being extra feats).
[QUOTE=jagguy]do you need a pure thief or can you multi-class a thief and still get by?[/QUOTE]
Multi-class Rogue will be sufficent. I'm currently running a party of 3 characters and my Rogue is mixed with Wizard. He's Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Wizard 3. I'm planning on adding an additional Rogue level to get Evasion after I reach Wizard 6 (I want 3rd level spells).
[QUOTE=jagguy]I heard the cleric needs high level spells for healing especially at low levels.[/QUOTE]
Not true and impossible to do without cheating. You start getting the good cleric spells at around Cleric level 5. At level 5, you'll get 3rd level spells like Animate Dead (a must have for any cleric) and healing spells like Cure Serious Wounds (heals 3d8 points of damge + 1 point per caster level (up to +15)).
[QUOTE=jagguy]what sort of levels are 6 chars expected to reach by the end?[/QUOTE]
In normal mode with a party of 6 with no ECL penalty characters (and no muleing or level squatting) should reach 16-17 level.
[QUOTE=jagguy]whats the point in having a fighter class, over a paladin,ranger ?[/QUOTE]
Don't forget about Barbarian. They can be quite brutal as well. As far as what type of fighters you are going to use, it's a matter of personal preference. A lot of people choose a Paladin because there are some Paladin only weapons and quests. IMO, Rangers are greatly hindered in IWD2 compared to IWD. Every game of IWD I played, I used a Ranger. In IWD2, I don't care for them, they have been weakened too much. Yes, they get spells, but nothing spectular and they don't get them until like level 6. IMO, Rangers are best used as mix-ins with Wizards. The reason for this is because Rangers can only wear light armor (w/ mixing in another Fighter class or increasing armor proficiency). Also, IMO, there is nothing like having a dual short sword wielding mage that can handle him/herself if faced with a melee challenge. I wouldn't trade my Drow Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Wizard 3 for any other 5th level character. With Weapon Finesse and a maxed dexterity, he's a force to be reconed with. Back to your original question, most parties that I have seen don't have a pure fighter type. They usually do a mix because they are looking for certain characteristics that each class has. These include Fighter 4\Paladin X, Fighter 4\Barbarian X, Ranger 1\Rogue X or even Fighter 4\Ranger 3\Rogue X. Keep in mind that if you plan for a character to have Rogue levels that it is best to start that character off as a Rogue because they get more skill points at character creation than the other classes.
[QUOTE=jagguy]With the Skill of a class that means a thief can have their skills but if I cris-cross skills I can make a mage 'pick pockets' at half ........so any class can have thief skills at a price.....so I can get away with any class having thief skills and so I dont need a thief ...is this right?[/QUOTE]
Short answer: yes. When you cross skills, it costs 2 skill points instead of 1. This comes in handy when multi-classing. A Fighter's only skill is Intimidate. However, if you're taking 4 levels of a Fighter with a Cleric who doesn't do the talking for you party, you probably don't want to add points to intimidate. So you might take Concentration at 2 skill points per increase instead. Of course, you can't always pick who is going to do the talking so it never hurts to bump up your conversation skills (Diplomacy, Intimidate and Bluff). I usually only bump them when I level up as a class that doesn't have 1 skill point to increase in what I'm focused on.
I hope this long post helps you out and keep us updated on your journey. Also, you'll find everyone here extremely helpful. Once you have determined what you want your party is, post them here and you'll get valuable feedback. I know that I have.
All classes can be useful. That's one of the beauties of IWD2. Multi-class is completely different than it was in IWD. IWD2 you can multi-class at any level up and in most cases you can switch back and forth and multi-class to as many different classes as you want. There are things to watch for when planning to multi-class. You have to consider your character's favorite class and the number of levels in each class. If two classes are more than one level apart and one of those classes is not a favorite class, then you will incur an xp penalty per level difference. Also, Monks and Paladins have orders that limit what they can multi-class to and from. This only means that if you have a Monk and multi-class to something other than the order's favorite class that you can not go back and pick up Monk levels at a later level up.
[QUOTE=jagguy]I was thinking of 3 fighter types, 1 fight/th, 1 cleric, 1 mage[/QUOTE]
That pretty much covers the basis. Only recommendation I would have is to drop a fighter for a Sorceror and make your other mage a specialist.
[QUOTE=jagguy]whats the point of pure fighter class in IWD II because they seem to lack abilities?[/QUOTE]
Pure Fighter will get you a ton of feats. Fighters get an extra feat at level one and every even level up. So a level 4 Fighter will receive 5 feats (3 being extra feats).
[QUOTE=jagguy]do you need a pure thief or can you multi-class a thief and still get by?[/QUOTE]
Multi-class Rogue will be sufficent. I'm currently running a party of 3 characters and my Rogue is mixed with Wizard. He's Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Wizard 3. I'm planning on adding an additional Rogue level to get Evasion after I reach Wizard 6 (I want 3rd level spells).
[QUOTE=jagguy]I heard the cleric needs high level spells for healing especially at low levels.[/QUOTE]
Not true and impossible to do without cheating. You start getting the good cleric spells at around Cleric level 5. At level 5, you'll get 3rd level spells like Animate Dead (a must have for any cleric) and healing spells like Cure Serious Wounds (heals 3d8 points of damge + 1 point per caster level (up to +15)).
[QUOTE=jagguy]what sort of levels are 6 chars expected to reach by the end?[/QUOTE]
In normal mode with a party of 6 with no ECL penalty characters (and no muleing or level squatting) should reach 16-17 level.
[QUOTE=jagguy]whats the point in having a fighter class, over a paladin,ranger ?[/QUOTE]
Don't forget about Barbarian. They can be quite brutal as well. As far as what type of fighters you are going to use, it's a matter of personal preference. A lot of people choose a Paladin because there are some Paladin only weapons and quests. IMO, Rangers are greatly hindered in IWD2 compared to IWD. Every game of IWD I played, I used a Ranger. In IWD2, I don't care for them, they have been weakened too much. Yes, they get spells, but nothing spectular and they don't get them until like level 6. IMO, Rangers are best used as mix-ins with Wizards. The reason for this is because Rangers can only wear light armor (w/ mixing in another Fighter class or increasing armor proficiency). Also, IMO, there is nothing like having a dual short sword wielding mage that can handle him/herself if faced with a melee challenge. I wouldn't trade my Drow Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Wizard 3 for any other 5th level character. With Weapon Finesse and a maxed dexterity, he's a force to be reconed with. Back to your original question, most parties that I have seen don't have a pure fighter type. They usually do a mix because they are looking for certain characteristics that each class has. These include Fighter 4\Paladin X, Fighter 4\Barbarian X, Ranger 1\Rogue X or even Fighter 4\Ranger 3\Rogue X. Keep in mind that if you plan for a character to have Rogue levels that it is best to start that character off as a Rogue because they get more skill points at character creation than the other classes.
[QUOTE=jagguy]With the Skill of a class that means a thief can have their skills but if I cris-cross skills I can make a mage 'pick pockets' at half ........so any class can have thief skills at a price.....so I can get away with any class having thief skills and so I dont need a thief ...is this right?[/QUOTE]
Short answer: yes. When you cross skills, it costs 2 skill points instead of 1. This comes in handy when multi-classing. A Fighter's only skill is Intimidate. However, if you're taking 4 levels of a Fighter with a Cleric who doesn't do the talking for you party, you probably don't want to add points to intimidate. So you might take Concentration at 2 skill points per increase instead. Of course, you can't always pick who is going to do the talking so it never hurts to bump up your conversation skills (Diplomacy, Intimidate and Bluff). I usually only bump them when I level up as a class that doesn't have 1 skill point to increase in what I'm focused on.
I hope this long post helps you out and keep us updated on your journey. Also, you'll find everyone here extremely helpful. Once you have determined what you want your party is, post them here and you'll get valuable feedback. I know that I have.
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jagguy
there has been a lot of great tips here.
I read you can have a barbarian/fighter class.....whats the benefit of this?
the thief skills you really need in this game are finding traps , open locks...is this right
the thing that concerns me the most is that you only reach lvl16-17 for party of 6. seems the game is more fun with 3-5 chars who reach over 20 lvl.
I read you can have a barbarian/fighter class.....whats the benefit of this?
the thief skills you really need in this game are finding traps , open locks...is this right
the thing that concerns me the most is that you only reach lvl16-17 for party of 6. seems the game is more fun with 3-5 chars who reach over 20 lvl.
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Wrath-Of-Egg
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:30 am
- Location: Finland.. or on that other place..
but sadly for me.. even if i milk this game.. i still get my partys overall level about 15-19.. even with just one char...
_________
How can you say no to this face?
But seriusly.. Party without Bard is not party...
I can understand that SYM forum.. mentally 6 year old people is just running around with scissors on their hand.
Last edited by Wrath-Of-Egg : Today
How can you say no to this face?
But seriusly.. Party without Bard is not party...
I can understand that SYM forum.. mentally 6 year old people is just running around with scissors on their hand.
Last edited by Wrath-Of-Egg : Today
My party is as follows (I played through on Insane difficulty):
Human Barbarian, Human Fighter 8/Druid x, Asamir Cleric (Battleguard of Tempus), human Rogue 3/Bard X, Wild Elf Sorceror, Tiefling Rogue 1/Diviner x.
This party is quite magic heavy, with 3 arcane casters and 2 divine ones. It is a little light in the close quarters fighting department, but can still dish it out.
When I played through the first time (I'm in Hof mode now) I found that magic was winning me more battles than melee, so I dualed my Fighter at level 8 to a druid. Mainly so he had a few more tricks up his sleeve and so I could get access to the Druid Spells. On reflection, a pure Ranger might have been just as good an idea, but I would have got less feats.
I recomend taking a multi class rogue, as you will note I have 2. The Wizard/rogue is the best combinationas the ability stats compliment each other very nicely. Taking 1 level of Rogue means you can spend as many skill points on rogue skills as you want on level up. My Bard took 3 levels so he would have both Evasion and a decent sneak attack. Between the two I have all the Rogue I need without sacrificing my casting abilities. I would like a high level rogue though, the sneak attacks are devestating at high level and some of the feats they get are great.
Human Barbarian, Human Fighter 8/Druid x, Asamir Cleric (Battleguard of Tempus), human Rogue 3/Bard X, Wild Elf Sorceror, Tiefling Rogue 1/Diviner x.
This party is quite magic heavy, with 3 arcane casters and 2 divine ones. It is a little light in the close quarters fighting department, but can still dish it out.
When I played through the first time (I'm in Hof mode now) I found that magic was winning me more battles than melee, so I dualed my Fighter at level 8 to a druid. Mainly so he had a few more tricks up his sleeve and so I could get access to the Druid Spells. On reflection, a pure Ranger might have been just as good an idea, but I would have got less feats.
I recomend taking a multi class rogue, as you will note I have 2. The Wizard/rogue is the best combinationas the ability stats compliment each other very nicely. Taking 1 level of Rogue means you can spend as many skill points on rogue skills as you want on level up. My Bard took 3 levels so he would have both Evasion and a decent sneak attack. Between the two I have all the Rogue I need without sacrificing my casting abilities. I would like a high level rogue though, the sneak attacks are devestating at high level and some of the feats they get are great.
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jagguy
I still say that they're very useful. Improved Evasion is cool, they can escape a Fireball without a single point of damage - that's not bad! Sneak Attack are useful to, just like Hide (other classes have this ability, true). Not to mention that high dexterity makes them excellent archers! I would highly recommend having a rouge, in dual-class at least.
Up the IRONS!
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jagguy
[QUOTE=jagguy]I read you can have a barbarian/fighter class.....whats the benefit of this?[/QUOTE]
Rage, that's why most players will mix Barbarian. The problem with the fighter class is that once you hit 4th level, there really is no need to continue except for additional feats. That's why most people mix Fighter with another class. I don't see taking a pure Fighter all the way thru as a benefit. Yes, you'll get a ton of feats, but what's the point in having weapon specialization in every weapon? In going that route, you have decide which of your characters is going to have the best weapons. That's why when I'm creating a party, I decide from the get-go who is going to use what weapon. I try to cover all the damage types so that no-one at any point is useless in a battle. I also try to make sure everyone has a missle weapon as well. Going back to the original statement, I find that Barbarian and Fighter have good qualities at low levels, not saying they are worthless at high levels, it's just that their abilities at the lower levels are good enough to mix in with another class. To me, Rogue is the same way. I love a pure Rogue, but I find myself enjoying other classes with a Rogue mix-in. In all of the parties and characters I have created, so far my favorite is my Drow Rogue 2/Ranger 1/Wizard X with maxed INT and DEX, Weapon Finesse, dualing small blades with a bow as a back-up. I know this guy is going to rock all the way through. Right now, he is Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Wizard 3 and he's a force to be reckoned with. But that to me is one of the things I like best, trying to come up with a fun party to play. Ideally, you can beat this game with any characters you want, it's just a matter of who you want to play. IMO, there is no one single class that you must have in your party. Don't like Rogues, don't need one. Most locks can be bashed with a weapon and traps can be found with a spell or song(?) or you can just take the damage and roll with it. Out of the Rogue abilities, I use Hide the most because I love sneak attack. Match that with Cleave or Greater Cleave and my guys just roll over those goblins.
Rage, that's why most players will mix Barbarian. The problem with the fighter class is that once you hit 4th level, there really is no need to continue except for additional feats. That's why most people mix Fighter with another class. I don't see taking a pure Fighter all the way thru as a benefit. Yes, you'll get a ton of feats, but what's the point in having weapon specialization in every weapon? In going that route, you have decide which of your characters is going to have the best weapons. That's why when I'm creating a party, I decide from the get-go who is going to use what weapon. I try to cover all the damage types so that no-one at any point is useless in a battle. I also try to make sure everyone has a missle weapon as well. Going back to the original statement, I find that Barbarian and Fighter have good qualities at low levels, not saying they are worthless at high levels, it's just that their abilities at the lower levels are good enough to mix in with another class. To me, Rogue is the same way. I love a pure Rogue, but I find myself enjoying other classes with a Rogue mix-in. In all of the parties and characters I have created, so far my favorite is my Drow Rogue 2/Ranger 1/Wizard X with maxed INT and DEX, Weapon Finesse, dualing small blades with a bow as a back-up. I know this guy is going to rock all the way through. Right now, he is Rogue 1/Ranger 1/Wizard 3 and he's a force to be reckoned with. But that to me is one of the things I like best, trying to come up with a fun party to play. Ideally, you can beat this game with any characters you want, it's just a matter of who you want to play. IMO, there is no one single class that you must have in your party. Don't like Rogues, don't need one. Most locks can be bashed with a weapon and traps can be found with a spell or song(?) or you can just take the damage and roll with it. Out of the Rogue abilities, I use Hide the most because I love sneak attack. Match that with Cleave or Greater Cleave and my guys just roll over those goblins.
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jagguy
rogues are great , I just liked other options better. I use a monk for sneaking around and traps,
I have limited access my comptert at the moment so I am just getting all the facts before I start the game. I know people have mixed views as to what they like best.
If you mix a fighter with a barbarian, do you get a char you can fight normally and take off their armour to rage?...this sounds good
I have limited access my comptert at the moment so I am just getting all the facts before I start the game. I know people have mixed views as to what they like best.
If you mix a fighter with a barbarian, do you get a char you can fight normally and take off their armour to rage?...this sounds good