Fighting

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:57 am

Check this out:

"We've realized how much combat people really do in a game like this and made it more of a priority to get it right," Howard continued. The Oblivion team actually developed three entirely new combat systems and did extensive testing on them all before settling on the one that will be in the final game. The basic idea of Oblivion combat is to impart the 'kinetic energy feeling' of guys bashing each other with swords. The game will have a number of special moves available and blocking is actively under player control, not automatic. As a result, timing moves, shielding yourself, and responding to the enemy becomes a key strategy in fighting. The team also didn't shy away from the gore either. It isn't over the top or gratuitous, but it does fall in line with the design philosophy of trying to make the game as realistic as possible. Basically, when you really smack someone with a sword, you expect a certain level of blood to come spewing out, so the team is trying to fulfill those expectations."

Well, I guess we can expect it to be very nice fighting game indeed...

Yuppieeee!!!

(Just hope they dont mix up the controls, like in Ultima, where fighting was not hard only because the AI was weak)

Denethorn · Post by **Denethorn** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:09 am

Which Ultima

Yeah, tbh I hope they revamp the magic system too, magery was really buggered as a class since it was so unbalanced, clumsy, and boring

.

By the sounds of this new combat system tho, I'll probably play an axe-wielding mad man.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:41 am

Clumsy? Boring? Magic? It was far too easy to become proficient in it, but I wouldn't call it boring or clumsy. There were a horde of interesting spells and spell combinations, plenty of potions you could make and items you could enchant. The selection of spells were diverse and well-suited to the environment.

As for melee combat, I only hope they make all the changes optional, just as the game can optionally auto-select the best attack for a given weapon, now. I tend to care very little about battle moves, and a lot more about exploration, trade, spells, etc. Combat can be fun, but don't throw a lot of fancy stuff at me.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:17 pm

[QUOTE=fable]Clumsy? Boring? Magic? It was far too easy to become proficient in it, but I wouldn't call it boring or clumsy. There were a horde of interesting spells and spell combinations, plenty of potions you could make and items you could enchant. The selection of spells were diverse and well-suited to the environment.

As for melee combat, I only hope they make all the changes optional, just as the game can optionally auto-select the best attack for a given weapon, now. I tend to care very little about battle moves, and a lot more about exploration, trade, spells, etc. Combat can be fun, but don't throw a lot of fancy stuff at me.

[/QUOTE]

I have to agree a bit with Denethorn, Fable, the magic engine was a bit, nope, a lot clumsy, yes. But your point is also ok, cause it was easy to become proficient (SA with SS and MR circle, scroll, light the candles and san An Fau Glirh). The strongest point to UIX was the quantity, not the quality, IMO.

I'm also with you on what concerns trade, exploration and spells, I'd hate to have a click click click fighting sistem and no option to "autocombat" for example.

Yeltsu · Post by **Yeltsu** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:50 pm

I think it would be cool if they could implement a melee system like them one in Jedi Knight 3 Jedi Academy, that was great, and not so hard to control either.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:58 pm

[QUOTE=fable]As for melee combat, I only hope they make all the changes optional, just as the game can optionally auto-select the best attack for a given weapon, now. I tend to care very little about battle moves, and a lot more about exploration, trade, spells, etc. Combat can be fun, but don't throw a lot of fancy stuff at me.

[/QUOTE]

bingo, my thoughts exactlly. i'd hope combat looks nice, but i'd hate to see it become the "main" focus of the game, or overly complex.

that being said, i'd also like to see some variation in the "auto" features. ie not simple repetition of the same sword stroke.

aCe_eX_InferniS · Post by **aCe_eX_InferniS** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:21 pm

omg do u guys really understand how boring this will get ??? every time u meet a monster same old crap :hit block hit block hit block..............imagine this u have to get from one point A to another point B situated fairly away. On the road u meet bout 20 monsters for each of them u have to repeat the process : hit block hit block hit block. That will become really dull really fast.Yes it will be great at the begining and against some monsters ( ie archers and casters) but it will get so boring !!!! At least in Morrowind all u had to do was click once and w8 for the monster to die ( eventually cast some magic)

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:57 am

^do you know how boring that is after a while?

Ruds · Post by **Ruds** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:48 pm

There is a very very simple solution to the "problem" you're refering to, ace_ex_infernis. They need to make FEWER enemies. The encounters and battles that you engage in should be more involved, more strategic, more complicated, but far fewer. In other words, where you'd normally spend 30 minutes traveling between cities in Morrowind, spending that time fighting 20 creatures, killing each in a flash, make Oblivion so that in that same 30 minutes you only fight 5 creatures, but each is more difficult and engaging.

This, as a matter of fact, opens new windows for customizing enemies to such a great point that encounters should never get old.

I can't wait for a game to actually do something like this.

moltovir · Post by **moltovir** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:59 am

Brilliant idea. A fight should take at least five minutes, with parrying and riposting, blocking, perhaps some cool moves (but no matrix-lookalike), until your enemy makes a mistake or a wrong move and you can kill him with one blow... it makes no sense that a mage needs 3 hits with a giant warhammer to kill a bug. Even a lvl 100 character should find enough challenges. Or imagine an enemy so powerful that you need NPC companions to defeat it.. provided the AI is good enough so that the npc's don't walk in your line of fire *cough* morrowind

giles337 · Post by **giles337** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:01 am

To Sum Up:

It's a double edged sword. It will either be innovative and effective, or hideously tedious.

Malach · Post by **Malach** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:45 am

Magick

Magick, powerful in morrowind, are we talking the same game.
If you have to waste all of your magicka to slay an enemy it is not powerful, I still wonder how house telvanni has survived all those years when a swordsman can cut down the most dangerous foes with just a few chops with his greatsword and the most powerful mages has to Throw a spell that drains about 200+ magicka points, drink a potion then throw it again just to get rid of a daedroth.
Other than support magic like recall and soultrap it is not very useful, not even my aundae high elf vampire mage with 150 something in destruction is very lethal without using the construction set to get some very nasty spells that cost a whole lot less than they actually would.

Magick was to good in daggerfall and to weak in morrowind and I for one pray to some higher power(the game devs) that it will be a bit more balanced in oblivion.

Monolith · Post by **Monolith** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:36 pm

Dude, read the interviews on the TES-Homepage. They mentioned that magic in daggerfall was to strong, thus they weakened it in Morrowind but went too far with this. They want to change the magic system in a way that you can finish Oblivion as a mage without the need of using weapons at all - only magic.

Raumoheru · Post by **Raumoheru** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:28 pm

sorry to bump an old topic, i have never read this one tho.

i think that the magic system's flaws were

1) it took too much magicka to cast a spell, making attacking with magic useless

2) the same casting animation for every spell. there should be an animation for every magic type (ie fire damage; recall; soul trap; etc) and if you have a spell with lots of different affects then it will have to go through all the animations and thus take longer to cast for more complex spells.

Ragin Cajun · Post by **Ragin Cajun** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:41 am

Did a search for fighting today. Found this thread and thought I'd resurrect it to see what initial reactions are. I am finding combat a little tough. I can't seem to block and then react fast enough to get a hit in on a counter. Even the goblins are giving me fits to some extent. I just got it handed to me in a cave of mages. Took forever to kill their familiars and to kill an unarmored mage taking 5 or 6 hits, or more? I had a goblin take seven arrows from me at long range. He looked like a pin cushion before finally going down.

jdougan1 · Post by **jdougan1** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:17 pm

I have about 20 hours down in the game now, and I for one don't like the new fighting system. I was worried about it when I first heard aboiut the changes, and my worries are confirmed.

To fight using all the available options one needs to (in the PC version) use both mouse buttons (swinging and blocking) and at least 4-5 keyboard keys (4 directional keys and the jump key). Futher, these need to be operated in a coordinated fashion. Plus, the spell casting key if you want to heal during combat.

Bottom line is that you lose fights you should win based on your stats, just because you can't get the key sequences right.

To me, this isn't what an RPG is supposed to be about. Oblivion is much to much of a clickfest for my tastes.

I would be plenty happy if they just put in an "autoblock" option, and an "always use best attack" option - but I don't see that heppening.

-- Jim

RUFFINATOR · Post by **RUFFINATOR** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:01 pm

lol i know what u mean bro....the sword and melee combat is a lil tricky...i try to stick to the bow, and do sneak attacks(im a thief mage), but i do have the ability to go toe to toe with foes, what i love is at higher levels when they do a power attack on me and i literally fly in the air and back about 20 feet...thats totally nuts

Tethuin · Post by **Tethuin** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:35 pm

I'm not sure if I'm just stating the obvious here, but the coordination really isn't that hard if you take a few things into account:
1) If you keep the block key (right mouse button) held down, you will block unless you are currently making an attack, or you've been staggered by a powerful blow. This means that during combat, holding down the right mouse button constantly is very effective.
2) From what I can tell through my own testing, stat increases from using combat skills seem to be related to how much you hit with them not how much damage you do. Power attacks are all very well, but if you're trying to boost your stats you're best off just using lots of single attacks.

These combined mean that it's an effective strategy to just stand still holding block and occaisionally left click to bash your opponent... you just need to be strategic about luring individual enemies one at a time.

That being said, I love the new combat system, it has the option of that really simple approach, but with carfully ranging your opponents to suit longer weapons, flanking, power attacks and using terrain, I've found the combat in this game to be really rich and enjoyable. The fast travel feature means you don't need to engage in too much combat to the point of boredom.

Yay Combat!

Cailan · Post by **Cailan** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:19 am

I love the fighting system! its incredibly realistic and definately gives you the feeling theat your actually doing the work.
I find that if you move forward while blocking the enemies get knocked back a bit which gives you a chance to get a swing or 2 in
oh and if you really are all about training your char then just find the strongest armour and weakest weapon you can. stand there taking hits with a 2 damage knife and you will level your stats fast... but thats boring

jdougan1 · Post by **jdougan1** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:44 am

[QUOTE=Tethuin]I'm not sure if I'm just stating the obvious here, but the coordination really isn't that hard if you take a few things into account:
1) If you keep the block key (right mouse button) held down, you will block unless you are currently making an attack, or you've been staggered by a powerful blow. This means that during combat, holding down the right mouse button constantly is very effective.
[/QUOTE]

No, you were not stating the obvious. I had been trying to time the right click to block, not realizing you could just hold it down. Makes things lots easier now. In Morrowind, the autoblock quickly raises the shield as the hit comes, so I guess I was just trying to emulate that. Doh!

I am still having trouble coordinating the power attacks, and the spell casting key is a pain to while moving - but at least I can now use the shield to hang on in combat a bit longer....