Dillema

[RandomThug]

Alright here I go.

I am proud to be American. The last four years can not take away the years before, the next four years wont either. I love my country and the way it works... sure its not perfect, but nothings perfect. Sure I really dont like bush and I wish he hadn't won, mostly for his cabnit. Lifes not fair. So I am stuck here in a position.. basically I am confused.

I have to deal with the fact my friends will continue to be in Iraq, Afghanastan and eventually I believe Iran or wherever. I have to endure the BS from both sides of the media..

The fact is my country chose who it wanted which makes Bush the right man, if he wasn't what the people wanted then the people wouldn't have elected him.

Now thats the patriot...

The family man is scared, I just got married and I want to have children. I live in Southern California (LA). I continue to believe LA is whatever terrorists target next. If you look at the voting states it almost appears those most likely to be attacked voted Kerry, those not likely voted bush (OR as John Stewert says "You have to own a boat to vote democrat").

It makes me want to move.. now I've spent 22 years here, I LOVE HERE. Here is also more expensive than you'll ever imagine, here is also crowded and a lot of people suck.

I try not to talk to much about the real heavy stuff with my wife because it upsets her... the fact of how easy in some sense it would be for us to die... for how angry the world really is...

You would all be amazed about how many Americans really believe we have done nothing ever to these terrorists. They believe these people hate us for no real reason...

I talk to her about how we bomb them, about how we do horrible things and she gets all shakey... I know she would move with me if I presented it in a really heavy scenario. Then where do I move ? Stay in the US? Bunk with Aeigis? I mean I dont know... basically my patriotic side says in four years I'll be 26 and a Democrat will be in office, hopefully. Perhaps by then we either routed out the terrorists in great shape... Iraq is coming together slowly and perhaps we are safer. Or perhaps im at the bottom of the sea and were at war with N.Korea........



..... As a patriot I wouldn't move for the world... but as a family man I must do whats best at all costs to protect my inner circle .... what would you suggest. I consider all your voices, voices of reason and true concern. It is unsuall to find such a large group let alone online let alone so diverse. Thanks for taking the time out to read this..

[dark_raven]

move to minnisota, we have nothing up here to make the tarrorists want to bomb us exept maybe the mall of amarica, but that's not likely. think of it... you'll be in the USA still but you won't have the worry of another tarrorist attack.

--OR--

stay where you live now because, i believe personally, with bush in office again, the terrorists will focus more on the troops over seas (which may not be a good thing) and less on America herself (which is a good thing).

either way, you should be out of most danger (should being the key word there).

but note this, there is nowhere in this world that you can go to be 100% safe execpt for 6 feet under the ground in a small box for the rest of your bodies decaying prosses.

i hope that helps you any.

[Vicsun]

Don't move and be content with the thought that you have a bigger chance of dying from cancer during a car accident than to die in a terrorist attack.

Oh, and remember: If you are scared then they have already won!!!

[Brynn]

If you decided to move, where would you go?

If I was an American living in one of the big cities of the US I'd consider moving, I think. (Even as a European, I see a chance of my city being attacked - just see what happened in Madrid.). People are scared, and for a good reason, I'm afraid. That's why we call it terror... B/c innocent people have to worry about their lives... Without trying to give advice (how could I, I don't even live there) I just say my opinion: I'd move to a place where I feel my family safe.

I see Vic's point, this is exactly what they want, to scare everybody... But no matter how brave I am remaining at my place, if the city I live in is attacked, my courage won't help me to save myself and those I love...

[Silur]

I do not think the US in such a sorry state that you need to seek political assylum elsewhere... at least not yet. Since you still believe in the good things about your country, I think it is really important that you stay and fight for them. If all reasonable people leave the US, the Neocons will have won completely and there will be no safe place to live anywhere on earth. The US military prides itself with being able to strike anywhere, any time within the hour (better than Fedex).

As for the likelyhood of being killed in a terrorist attack, it probably has gone up immensely, but its still lower than the risk of being killed in a car accident or by a madman with a gun even if you live next door to a likely target. In my view there are other much more sinister risks to take into account. The polarisation within the US is bound to continue and with it an escalation of violence. Unfortunately, it is usually the moderates that suffer the casualties. You can limit this somewhat by trying to live in an area with many other moderates, but unfortunately that also furthers the polarisation.

[Weasel]

Kind of opposite of Silur, but I will not move into an area with views suited to my taste. I guess I ask for trouble. The best way to break their views is to show them a different way. Will this lead to trouble, most likely. Some will never change, just have to overlook them...the few you can convince though is worth the trouble. The trick to surviving is being able to find a point you can agree on.

[Silur]

[QUOTE=Weasel]Kind of opposite of Silur, but I will not move into an area with views suited to my taste. I guess I ask for trouble. The best way to break their views is to show them a different way. Will this lead to trouble, most likely. Some will never change, just have to overlook them...the few you can convince though is worth the trouble. The trick to surviving is being able to find a point you can agree on.
[/QUOTE]

I thought his focus was on surviving AND fighting for what he believes in? Not attract a neocon lynch mob, and get strung up by his "fellow Americans".

[Weasel]

[QUOTE=Silur]I thought his focus was on surviving AND fighting for what he believes in? Not attract a neocon lynch mob, and get strung up by his "fellow Americans".[/QUOTE]


Surviving and fighting to see the end would most likely have a better chance with your way.

I have come to realize I cannot keep my mouth shut, so I will be strung up. I have lost friends in RL because of my opinion on the abuse that happened in Iraq and really don't care to have them back as friends. This is not to say my opinion is not changable, I try my best to listen and make a judgement I can live with. I will compromise to a point.

[Weasel]

@Thug, it's getting a little better..Ashcroft is gone now.

CNN

[fable]

[QUOTE=Weasel]@Thug, it's getting a little better..Ashcroft is gone now. [/QUOTE]

I wonder where he'll put up his pulpit, next.

[Scayde]

Thug...You live in California..I live in Texas..we are in more danger of earthquakes or tornadoes than terrorists....

if in Texas....
1. Avoid living in a moble home..tornadoes love them...
2. Avoid living anywhere along the Texas coast....too many big oil refineries..good targets and they smell bad

If in California...
1. Avoid living in Central L.A...much more likely to get clipped in a drive by shooting than a terrorist attack...
3. Avoid living in Frisco...Liquifaction is a bummer

Congrats on being a family man

*HUG*

[Weasel]

[QUOTE=fable]I wonder where he'll put up his pulpit, next.[/QUOTE]



I could give him a few places to head for...none to nice. I believe some should have to live on the other side for a while to get the full effect of their actions.

[Tower_Master]

[QUOTE=Vicsun]Don't move and be content with the thought that you have a bigger chance of dying from cancer during a car accident than to die in a terrorist attack.

Oh, and remember: If you are scared then they have already won!!![/QUOTE]

AMEN! As another American concerned with the state of our country, Thug, I'd have to say this: the threat of a terrorist attack should NEVER be your reason to move. The odds are SO against you ever being harmed by that, I wouldn't, personally, let it be a deciding factor while you plan for you (and your hopefully-soon-to-grow) family's future.

Also, I'd definately agree on the patriotism thing. We need to stand behind our country, but the beauty of democracy is being able to voice our own dissenting oppinion (although don't you wish that some people *cough celebrities* would keep there mouths shut?). You have no obligation to support our current "regime", and don't let anyone guilt you into thinking so!

Anyway, congratulations again on your marriage, man, and may you be able to have as many kids as you want!

[fable]

[QUOTE=Vicsun]Oh, and remember: If you are scared then they have already won!!![/QUOTE]

I keep telling myself that about Bush and company--and it doesn't work.

[Vicsun]

If I were to place a bet...

[QUOTE=fable]I wonder where he'll put up his pulpit, next.[/QUOTE]
The Supreme Court.

[fable]

[QUOTE=Vicsun]The Supreme Court.[/QUOTE]

That's a pretty perceptive guess, and it might just come true. Normally in the US, an entire life dedicated to the judiciary and/or teaching law is necessary for appointment to the Supreme Court, but there have been exceptions. And while there are no precedents for selecting an extremely controversial, evangelical cabinet secretary for the post shortly after he resigns, this administration has shown it doesn't set much store on precedent, much less separation of the three divisions of government, or Church and State, or the qualifications of an nominee to the highest court in the land.

It just may happen. Ashcroft stepping down may actually be a step in that direction.

[Silur]

@Fable: *whimper* Well, if Ashcroft makes into the supreme court, I see no option but to flee the country.

[Weasel]

[QUOTE=Vicsun]The Supreme Court.[/QUOTE]


Jeez what a complete nightmare..did you get any sleep after this???

Has any appointment to the Supreme Court ever been killed before they got the job?? I would predict Ashcroft might be joining the few if any.

[Silur]

[QUOTE=Weasel]
Has any appointment to the Supreme Court ever been killed before they got the job?? I would predict Ashcroft might be joining the few if any.[/QUOTE]

But you forget, it's mostly liberal politicians that get murdered (Pim Fortuyn being the most current exception). Just goes to show how reckless "them liberals" are regarding security!

[SmokeSoft]

Maybe its because I live in Kansas where the only things getting killed are animals on the road and deer in the woods during hunting season but....

Maybe because I'm still in college with no real end in sight, meaning that I could get away with not being drafted if that could possibly go through Congress at all but....

Maybe its because I live in a majority Republican district where everybody equally hates Bush and Kerry and terrorists but....

I'm not afraid for the future of America. We will survive. There will be major changes in the Hill before America as a whole dies out or collapses. Future politicans will, briefly perhaps, change what is currently wrong with the system.

For the most part, over all the generations of Americans, the right people for the times and situations have lead the nation. Countless examples prove that individual Americans can make a difference. Voices can be heard and wrongs can be righted.

As for Bush. Yes, he is not a great president by way of public opinion. Or is he? He did win the election, which means that Americans actually think he can be president. Not all the fault of the "wars" on terror and in Iraqi land squarely on his slouched shoulders. Chaney is, in my eyes, several thousands of times worse than Bush. I see him as truly being dangerous to America, and if Bush wants to have a better second term than first, he will remove his Vice and find someone else.

Military advisors and heads of command aren't doing a super job either. Those are people that we as joe-nobody Americans can really influence or effect. These people know how much money it costs to run a military and how much more they can get off of Congress to prepare for future conflicts. Congress itself can receive major monetary kick backs from the contracts their states have with the military for building everything from stealth aircraft to boots! Greed like that has cause more the one or two major conflicts in the last century.

As many have already said, being scared and changing the ways we as Americans live our lives is letting them, whoever them is, win. But so does pulling out every soldier and letting chaos that we started reign.

No one is either innocent nor guilty in this. We did things to them and they did things to us. So, we're fighting. Yes, it sucks. Yes, I hate it. Yes, I support our troops doing what I'm not. Yes, I love my nation because I can't see myself living any other way.

Don't move. Show your wife what it truly means to be an American. Lover her and everything about her. In the greater scheme of things, she is the most important thing you have. Soon, with luck , so will a family that will need you. Showing them that fear will breed more fear. Give the next generation of Americans what we desired and have. The chance to dream about what we want to do with our lives and the strength to go out and get it!

Rock on. No fear. And show love to all! No matter what.