Why is this game so great?
Why is this game so great?
Hay guys, i bought this game when it first came out and then took it back the next day because you had to press about twenty buttons just to swing you light saber around. so i bought jedi outcast:jedi academy instead were you can just whip out your saber and kill people with two button presses. Now i here KOTOR is the best starwars game ever and a great PRG. but i can't c how. did i amke a big mistake takin this game back? if so, why? i mean i have been known to make snap judgements bout games b4 but this one is bothering me because i really wanna buy it but the fact you have to go in to fighting mode then tap alsorts to kill sumone put me of. Help me and make me wanna buy it again. i need to know why this is worth buying. pleeaassee!!!! THANK U!
Rock on, Rock hard & don't look back!!!
Exactly, and you have to appreciate that Jedi Academy and KOTOR are 2 completely different game. "Star Wars" and Jedi's are about all they share.
You're exactly right about JA. The entire point of that game, really, is simply to charge in with a light saber and pull off some fancy looking moves. Which is great, its a lot of fun. But it lacked a bit on the story side and a LOT on the characters side. Your character is a nobody, somebody who has more or less sprung out of a hole in the ground. There hasn't been a great story since Jedi Knight (Dark Forces 2), which was, on the whole, fantastic.
KOTOR is all about story and character developement. What action there is a quite formulaic and tactical affair, although it can be quite easy. But its not a particularly hands on combat. You press the attacks that you want and your character will perform based on dice rolls in a turn based system.
I must admit I'd like to a greaty variety of moves and a faster pace to combat in KOTOR 2. Not necessarily more feats, but a greater variety within those feats of the moves that you perform. And more blocking really, an exciting light saber fight, not one where you are just wearing your opponent down.
You're exactly right about JA. The entire point of that game, really, is simply to charge in with a light saber and pull off some fancy looking moves. Which is great, its a lot of fun. But it lacked a bit on the story side and a LOT on the characters side. Your character is a nobody, somebody who has more or less sprung out of a hole in the ground. There hasn't been a great story since Jedi Knight (Dark Forces 2), which was, on the whole, fantastic.
KOTOR is all about story and character developement. What action there is a quite formulaic and tactical affair, although it can be quite easy. But its not a particularly hands on combat. You press the attacks that you want and your character will perform based on dice rolls in a turn based system.
I must admit I'd like to a greaty variety of moves and a faster pace to combat in KOTOR 2. Not necessarily more feats, but a greater variety within those feats of the moves that you perform. And more blocking really, an exciting light saber fight, not one where you are just wearing your opponent down.
Trouts are best tickled in muddy waters
Why is this game so great? Well, it depends on opinion. There are a lot of fights in KOTOR, but they are turn-based. I don't know the xbox-version, however, but in the PC Version, you can pause the fight any time and give your character and Party-members orders without time-depression. The fighting itself looks great, but might be a little bit odd, when you do damage while blocking an attack (the animations show so...).
As said before, KOTOR is all about story. Every thing you do influences the story somehow. There are a lot of dialogs, and most of them have more than one or two solutions. (They are often quests...) If you don't like RPGs at all, this game might not be for you, since it IS an RPG in the purest form.
if you played Neverwinter-Nights and liked it, KOTOR is a must-have, however!!!
As said before, KOTOR is all about story. Every thing you do influences the story somehow. There are a lot of dialogs, and most of them have more than one or two solutions. (They are often quests...) If you don't like RPGs at all, this game might not be for you, since it IS an RPG in the purest form.
if you played Neverwinter-Nights and liked it, KOTOR is a must-have, however!!!
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UserUnfriendly
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its much more geared tword a turn based style of playing, without the button mashing that jedi academy has...
i admit, i am bad in most video games, so i prefer knights and titles like it, simply cause i love turn based...toss in bioware gaming plotlines, and i am in heaven...
its closer to pazakk rather than swoop racing..a game of chess rather than tennis...(and yep, i suck at tennis and am good in chess)
building up characters, testing attribute patterns, choosing gear combinations, figuring out force powers and feats many many moves ahead...
i admit, i am bad in most video games, so i prefer knights and titles like it, simply cause i love turn based...toss in bioware gaming plotlines, and i am in heaven...
its closer to pazakk rather than swoop racing..a game of chess rather than tennis...(and yep, i suck at tennis and am good in chess)
building up characters, testing attribute patterns, choosing gear combinations, figuring out force powers and feats many many moves ahead...
They call me Darth...
Darth Gizka!
Muwahahahahhahahha!!!
Darth Gizka!
Muwahahahahhahahha!!!
But I wouldn't say KotOR is an RPG in its purest form by any means. Its far too action orientated, much of the game is "fight your way through this area" then "fight your way through that". Its actual non-combat role-playing was perhaps a little bit too limited. The character developement was quite good, apart from skills. Just that role-playing wasn't quite brilliant.
Trouts are best tickled in muddy waters
[QUOTE=Admo]But I wouldn't say KotOR is an RPG in its purest form by any means. Its far too action orientated, much of the game is "fight your way through this area" then "fight your way through that". Its actual non-combat role-playing was perhaps a little bit too limited. The character developement was quite good, apart from skills. Just that role-playing wasn't quite brilliant.[/QUOTE]
I would agree the game is more of an "interactive movie" than a pure RPG. However, quite a bit of combat can be avoided if you use your head and have a character with good Persuasion skills and a good combination of Force Skills. I think the tendency toward action derives form the nature of Star Wars itself. The Star Wars universe is a combination of space opera and the old movie serials. The hero battles his way through impossible odds and saves the galaxy from destruction. From a storyline perspective, this demands a lot of opportunities for whipping out the blasters and lightsabers.
That said, with some exceptions, it is possible to talk or think your way out of quite a bit of combat, depending on how you want to play the game.
As far as character development goes, I would like to have seen the NPCs' stories impact the main storyline more. For example, I took HK-47 into the Sith Academy (after the Leviathan sequence) and nobody blinked. He should have caused more of a stir, or HE should have acted differently.
At any rate, that's my $0.02.
I would agree the game is more of an "interactive movie" than a pure RPG. However, quite a bit of combat can be avoided if you use your head and have a character with good Persuasion skills and a good combination of Force Skills. I think the tendency toward action derives form the nature of Star Wars itself. The Star Wars universe is a combination of space opera and the old movie serials. The hero battles his way through impossible odds and saves the galaxy from destruction. From a storyline perspective, this demands a lot of opportunities for whipping out the blasters and lightsabers.
That said, with some exceptions, it is possible to talk or think your way out of quite a bit of combat, depending on how you want to play the game.
As far as character development goes, I would like to have seen the NPCs' stories impact the main storyline more. For example, I took HK-47 into the Sith Academy (after the Leviathan sequence) and nobody blinked. He should have caused more of a stir, or HE should have acted differently.
At any rate, that's my $0.02.
Agreed. It is more of personal preference than anything else.
To me, I played "The Hulk". I love the movie, I love the comic. But the XBOX game was rather mediocre. In fact, it was rather boring after a day or two. There is not much of a story. There is not much of character development.
D2X got me hooked for months. There was more story, more character development. The choices for 7 different classes was the main reason I got hooked for so long. Then, the online battlenet and LAN gaming got me for several more months. But it did not keep me.
Final Fantasy is a hot fav for a lot of reasons. Anyone who played FF7 would remember the detailed quests concerning the lives of all the party members. Their life stories was one of the most captivating and emotional aspects of the game. It was so successful that despite the similiarity of all the FF stories, there is now FF12.
Neverwinter Nights does not have as many party members. In fact, the henchman is a rather amusing idea, rather than helpful. However, NWN kept me longer than D2X because there was more story and more RPG. D2X is more action than RPG. NWN has an array of character races and classes which kept me at my desk for many many happy hours.
However, the NWN story was something I did not grow up with. I grew up amused at lightsabers, Ewoks, Wookies, Han Solo and the Force.
Marrying Star Wars with my favourite game engine by Bioware was the best thing that has happened to me as a RPG gamer. It had my fav weapon. I'm one of the goons going ard pressing the Y button just to hear the lightsaber. It has my favourite story, with all the Twil'eks and Wookies, with the Jedis and the Darths....
Spoiler
It even has a parallel between Bastila and Aerith. Both betrayed their faith, which goes to show that those who try to uphold the Law are the first ones to fail it. Bioware sure did some copying and pasting here.
If you find yourself disliking the game engine and the battle system, I have to say tat I think this is one of the best RPG turn based system I have ever come acrossed. It is even better than NWN. U get to pause during the battle and plan. Ever watched a thermal detonator blow up below your Guardian just as he lifts off into a Force Jump? Fantastic! Take a screen shot!
To me, I played "The Hulk". I love the movie, I love the comic. But the XBOX game was rather mediocre. In fact, it was rather boring after a day or two. There is not much of a story. There is not much of character development.
D2X got me hooked for months. There was more story, more character development. The choices for 7 different classes was the main reason I got hooked for so long. Then, the online battlenet and LAN gaming got me for several more months. But it did not keep me.
Final Fantasy is a hot fav for a lot of reasons. Anyone who played FF7 would remember the detailed quests concerning the lives of all the party members. Their life stories was one of the most captivating and emotional aspects of the game. It was so successful that despite the similiarity of all the FF stories, there is now FF12.
Neverwinter Nights does not have as many party members. In fact, the henchman is a rather amusing idea, rather than helpful. However, NWN kept me longer than D2X because there was more story and more RPG. D2X is more action than RPG. NWN has an array of character races and classes which kept me at my desk for many many happy hours.
However, the NWN story was something I did not grow up with. I grew up amused at lightsabers, Ewoks, Wookies, Han Solo and the Force.
Marrying Star Wars with my favourite game engine by Bioware was the best thing that has happened to me as a RPG gamer. It had my fav weapon. I'm one of the goons going ard pressing the Y button just to hear the lightsaber. It has my favourite story, with all the Twil'eks and Wookies, with the Jedis and the Darths....
Spoiler
It even has a parallel between Bastila and Aerith. Both betrayed their faith, which goes to show that those who try to uphold the Law are the first ones to fail it. Bioware sure did some copying and pasting here.
If you find yourself disliking the game engine and the battle system, I have to say tat I think this is one of the best RPG turn based system I have ever come acrossed. It is even better than NWN. U get to pause during the battle and plan. Ever watched a thermal detonator blow up below your Guardian just as he lifts off into a Force Jump? Fantastic! Take a screen shot!
In the end, everything will be alright. If it is not alright, it is not the end.
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fable
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Perspectives differ. There are a fair number of folks, including myself, who regard KotoR as the "dumbing down" of the Bioware product, per LucasArts' development requirements, to reach a "broader audience," however you see this. Puzzles are ridiculously simpler, party interactions and writing are simpler, and big battles are much easier than in BG2 and PS:T. For my money, those earlier games have more content to offer. Each to their own, but in a real way, the curve of sophistication that rose from BG1 tao BG2/PS:T, in my opinion, dropped back down for KotoR.
And if anyone is inclined to try and argue, let me just point out that this is my opinion. I'm not arguing with your right to hold one; don't argue with mine.
As for what makes KotoR great, however you define that: I'd say its smoothness. It has the perfection of an assemblyline product. Everything works together correctly, not just electronically, but in terms of content. It is all of a piece, working like a finely crafted clock.
And if anyone is inclined to try and argue, let me just point out that this is my opinion. I'm not arguing with your right to hold one; don't argue with mine.
As for what makes KotoR great, however you define that: I'd say its smoothness. It has the perfection of an assemblyline product. Everything works together correctly, not just electronically, but in terms of content. It is all of a piece, working like a finely crafted clock.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
[QUOTE=fable]Perspectives differ. There are a fair number of folks, including myself, who regard KotoR as the "dumbing down" of the Bioware product, per LucasArts' development requirements, to reach a "broader audience," however you see this. Puzzles are ridiculously simpler, party interactions and writing are simpler, and big battles are much easier than in BG2 and PS:T. For my money, those earlier games have more content to offer. Each to their own, but in a real way, the curve of sophistication that rose from BG1 tao BG2/PS:T, in my opinion, dropped back down for KotoR.
<snip>
[/QUOTE]
And I'm one of thoese people, and can only mirror most of Fables remarks about this game
The game makes a very good action game, but is little more then a run-of-the-mill mediocre RPG in my view.
<snip>
[/QUOTE]
And I'm one of thoese people, and can only mirror most of Fables remarks about this game
The game makes a very good action game, but is little more then a run-of-the-mill mediocre RPG in my view.
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Aenon Jurtis
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Game Of The Year
There is only one reason that crtics call it the best game of the year CAUSE IT IS!!!!! ok when i first played it i wanted to swing the lightsaber around too but the thing is you can with on button and if you only played for about 30 minitues you didnt even use the lightsaber yet until you beat taris so how could you know if you can use the lightsaber likt that which you cant anyways ......but you can make your guy do different things with the lightsaber when you attack i love critcal strike woohooo greatest ohh man its great with two lightsabers you just have to be pateint and you will love it!!
There is only one reason that crtics call it the best game of the year CAUSE IT IS!!!!! ok when i first played it i wanted to swing the lightsaber around too but the thing is you can with on button and if you only played for about 30 minitues you didnt even use the lightsaber yet until you beat taris so how could you know if you can use the lightsaber likt that which you cant anyways ......but you can make your guy do different things with the lightsaber when you attack i love critcal strike woohooo greatest ohh man its great with two lightsabers you just have to be pateint and you will love it!!
Other games?
Running the risk of being labeled as simply incoherent....
if kotor is not one of the better RPGs in the market, perhaps someone can suggest a few other examples for a qualitative comparison and contrast?
I dun consider myself a master RPGer, but I have played the more common titles. D2X, NWN, FF series and the Heroes of Might and Magic. D2X is more action than RPG. The reason why it's such a bit hit is becoz of the craze to kill one another on battlenet. There's no story development there on the player's part. NWN, also by Bioware is a great game... having evolved from AD&D system. However, to StarWars-studded fans like me, the "Star Wars" essence of kotor is more important than the "RPGness". FF is also a hot favourite for so many reasons despite the fact that there is no multiplayer option like kotor.
I agree with Fable that kotor is lacking in some areas. In fact, there are rather obvious lack of effort in Bioware's part if a player plays kotor long enough...
Spoiler
1) Swoop upgrading mentioned so many times yet no quests for it. 2) All the faces look the same darnnit! 3) Bugs galore! I got stuck walking into furniture many times. 4) AI sure is a little dense in the head.. they are seriously myopic. 5) Where's my giant rancor!? OK.. enough complaining for me.
However, lucasarts sure did some justice to the game. The story is great. I get to be like Obiwan! Yeah!
Running the risk of being labeled as simply incoherent....
if kotor is not one of the better RPGs in the market, perhaps someone can suggest a few other examples for a qualitative comparison and contrast?
I dun consider myself a master RPGer, but I have played the more common titles. D2X, NWN, FF series and the Heroes of Might and Magic. D2X is more action than RPG. The reason why it's such a bit hit is becoz of the craze to kill one another on battlenet. There's no story development there on the player's part. NWN, also by Bioware is a great game... having evolved from AD&D system. However, to StarWars-studded fans like me, the "Star Wars" essence of kotor is more important than the "RPGness". FF is also a hot favourite for so many reasons despite the fact that there is no multiplayer option like kotor.
I agree with Fable that kotor is lacking in some areas. In fact, there are rather obvious lack of effort in Bioware's part if a player plays kotor long enough...
Spoiler
1) Swoop upgrading mentioned so many times yet no quests for it. 2) All the faces look the same darnnit! 3) Bugs galore! I got stuck walking into furniture many times. 4) AI sure is a little dense in the head.. they are seriously myopic. 5) Where's my giant rancor!? OK.. enough complaining for me.
However, lucasarts sure did some justice to the game. The story is great. I get to be like Obiwan! Yeah!
In the end, everything will be alright. If it is not alright, it is not the end.
[QUOTE=Aenon Jurtis]There is only one reason that crtics call it the best game of the year CAUSE IT IS!!!!! <snip>[/QUOTE]
Well - in my view "critics" often have a tendency to call most hyped games "game of the year" these days.
I stopped listening to such people when critics clamined Diablo was RPG of the year back in its days
[QUOTE=sun_facer]Running the risk of being labeled as simply incoherent....
if kotor is not one of the better RPGs in the market, perhaps someone can suggest a few other examples for a qualitative comparison and contrast?
<snip>[/QUOTE]
Well - a good place to start if you wish to try some other games - would be the Baldurs Gate series. They are very well done and in the benchmark I personally meassure other RPGs by.
Also - give PlaneScape: Torment a try if you can dig it up somewhere, it is a brilliant RPG (which unfortunally never quite gripped me).
Fallout 1 and 2 will also be a good to pick up.
However - these games are some years old, so newcommers to them might be put off by the older graphics, although BG2 is still very nice graphically in my view. However - the games are significant longer
KOTOR pales as a RPG in comparision to such RPGs in my personal view, even speaking as a Star Wars fan.
Well - in my view "critics" often have a tendency to call most hyped games "game of the year" these days.
I stopped listening to such people when critics clamined Diablo was RPG of the year back in its days
[QUOTE=sun_facer]Running the risk of being labeled as simply incoherent....
if kotor is not one of the better RPGs in the market, perhaps someone can suggest a few other examples for a qualitative comparison and contrast?
<snip>[/QUOTE]
Well - a good place to start if you wish to try some other games - would be the Baldurs Gate series. They are very well done and in the benchmark I personally meassure other RPGs by.
Also - give PlaneScape: Torment a try if you can dig it up somewhere, it is a brilliant RPG (which unfortunally never quite gripped me).
Fallout 1 and 2 will also be a good to pick up.
However - these games are some years old, so newcommers to them might be put off by the older graphics, although BG2 is still very nice graphically in my view. However - the games are significant longer
KOTOR pales as a RPG in comparision to such RPGs in my personal view, even speaking as a Star Wars fan.
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