New Player

Sir Redweed · Post by **Sir Redweed** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:30 pm

I've just picked up this game after finishing BG series. Any help/hints on general gameplay and differences from BG.

What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:36 pm

Don't stray too far from Seyda Neen, at first. Kill crabs and slaughterfish. Trade for some decent armor, maybe a spell or two, a few potions and a weapon. Gather herbs, if you've invested in alchemy. Even if you haven't, you can still sell them to the local shop.

If you're on a PC instead of an Xbox, take a look at our mods sticky thread. There are many that can make the experience more enjoyable for any player, be it by improving the graphics, adding new shops, more quests, new races, tweaking gameplay, etc. One of my favorites lets you slowly regain magicka without first having to sleep or consume a potion. This gives you the chance to gain some good multipliers when you finally decide to level.

Don't hesitate to ask any questions you have about the game, here. We've played it, many of us, for quite some time. We like it a lot.

Sir Redweed · Post by **Sir Redweed** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:40 pm

Game Ranking

Thanks for the advice Fable. I've played the BG and Icewind dale series to death and looking to branch out.

How would you rate the other RPG out there for enjoyment and ease of play.

What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:15 pm

Do you mean, how would I rate BG2 or the IWD series? This is really getting into a different area, which we should look at in the Game Discussion forum. I've already moved at least one thread, there.

But quickly: I think BG2 is one of the best RPGs ever made, ranking alongside PS:T, Ultima VII: The Black Gate, Betrayal at Krondor and King of Dragon Pass. IWD seems to me more of a strategy game with RPG trappings. Just my POV.

As for Morrowind, I think it's got a lot going for it. Going against it is that it's a reactive world (nothing gets done if you don't accomplish it), with terribly generic dialog, and NPCs whose attitudes are sometimes hard to detect. The mods can make a great difference, and I'll probably be playing it a long time after Oblivion appears.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:31 pm

BG2 is one of best RPG...

UKE: Saying that is like ''silver to werewolfs'' to me..

Happy now?

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:35 pm

Wrath, must you always be so...enthusiastic?

And where did I write that it was the best RPG ever made?

robot flux · Post by **robot flux** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:35 am

But quickly: I think BG2 is one of the best RPGs ever made

Right there. Or was that sarcasm?

Although this is so off-topic, I don't think BG2 is a good RPG. Fallout 2 instead, THAT'S something sooo special...

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:55 am

i dont belive that fable is trying to be sarcastic.. people in USA arent so sarcastic like people in Finland..

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:56 am

[QUOTE=robot flux]Right there. Or was that sarcasm?

Although this is so off-topic, I don't think BG2 is a good RPG. Fallout 2 instead, THAT'S something sooo special...[/QUOTE]

But saying it's one of the best, is not the same thing as saying it's the best. BG2 has several serious flaws: 1) a hackneyed plot; 2) poor combat AI (but whose aren't?); 3) powers overkill ("my atom bomb is bigger than your atom bomb!"); 4) dumb puzzles (but whose aren't?); 5) some fudging of the calculations, which frankly doesn't bother me as much as might someone else. But it's also got very good 2D visuals, excellent pacing, extremely well-designed quests and quest areas, excellently written interparty dialog, interparty combat (and occasionally, they take over from you); plenty of subquests, a major "path split" (which is, of course, nothing of the sort, but hides it well); differing challenges; reasonably decent game balance, with a good distribution of loot. And it's just good entertainment.

I don't think there's a computerized RPG that is as good as a PnP one can be, and I say that as someone who first started playing 'em back in 1980, and who worked for four years on a commercial MMORPG that's still doing well (for what little that matters). Pick one you find soooo special, and I'm sure we can find its flaws as well, and take attitudes.

But BG2 is IMO among the best of the RPG crop.

And so is Morrowind, or you wouldn't be here--and it has some severe flaws, too, although they (and its good points) frequently lie at the opposite end of the spectrum from BG2.

i dont belive that fable is trying to be sarcastic.. people in USA arent so sarcastic like people in Finland..

Not in the continental US, no. It's just not cold enough.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:20 am

[QUOTE=fable]
Not in the continental US, no. It's just not cold enough.[/QUOTE]

Could you explain?

I would say that Finland is quite warm.. ever heard of thing called ''Golf something'' any way it warms up whole Europe..
So Finnish weather would be something like in Everwood if you have seen that serie episodes.. perhaps 1-2 celsius warmer? (question mark is becuse i am not sure)

No we dont have polar bears..nor Penguins... Penguins are on Southpole.. only polar bears in Finland are in zoos.. samething goes with penguins..

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:27 am

But for me BG has many flaws.. like NPC's.. they are annoying.. boring.. and if i want to keep my party in peace i must choose those who i dont like.. and most NPC's that i liked weren't in BG2..

Plot was something wich i could describe as 2 years old boy drawing.. (and basicly knowing what will happen next realy didn't help much)

When there was battle it didn't realy have anything exciting.. and i could just let computer AI finish it..

And the lack of roleplaying..

So i realy didn't bother play BG trhough more than once..

But then IWD serie.. i realy like IWD1 and 2.. for me it is best ''roleplay'' feeling that any game has made.. and i just dont seam to get enough of IWD1 and 2..

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:47 am

[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]Could you explain?'[/quote]

Oh, that? That was sarcasm.

I would say that Finland is quite warm.. ever heard of thing called ''Golf something'' any way it warms up whole Europe..

I think you mean Miniature Golf. Yes, I heard how it was invented by Ilmarinen, right after the sampo, and has been warming the hearts since of Europeans and Americans.

So Finnish weather would be something like in Everwood if you have seen that serie episodes.. perhaps 1-2 celsius warmer? (question mark is becuse i am not sure)

Haven't watched television in 15 years. Quite seriously. How would you say it compares to Sweden, the Netherlands, or the UK?

But for me BG has many flaws.. like NPC's.. they are annoying.. boring.. and if i want to keep my party in peace i must choose those who i dont like.. and most NPC's that i liked weren't in BG2..

The NPCs are nowhere near as boring as those in MW, IMO, and some in BG2 really stand out: that pleasant dragon who gives you the quest which leads to killing another party of adventurers, for instance, and the two-faced, fast-talking ship's captain; the upgrading gnomes, and Bodhi, perhaps, above all. Yes, there are plenty of cliches in BG2, but they're shared through all of Bioware's games: for example, those annoying stereotypes of nobles, who resemble Jim Backus in his Gilligan's Island days rather than anything ever remotely connected to reality. But MW's repetitive, endless dialogs impose an emptiness on the landscape of communication that contradicts what it achieves graphically.

Plot was something wich i could describe as 2 years old boy drawing.. (and basicly knowing what will happen next realy didn't help much)

And just how many RPGs aren't like this?

But then IWD serie.. i realy like IWD1 and 2.. for me it is best ''roleplay'' feeling that any game has made.. and i just dont seam to get enough of IWD1 and 2..

Utterly linear, uninteresting NPCs, endless battles that are in no way better than those of BG2, and plot holes so wide that the games should have been sold with ropes.

Morrowind suffers from horrible dialog, endless cheese, lack of real conversation options, and a static world--and I have a feeling that at least several of these will be repeated in Oblivion. But it's sheer scope, diversity of quests and areas to explore, make it a great game. Plus the mods, of course: tailor the environment as you like. I think it's a keeper.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:20 pm

[QUOTE=fable]
I would say that Finland is quite warm.. ever heard of thing called ''Golf something'' any way it warms up whole Europe..

I think you mean Miniature Golf. Yes, I heard how it was invented by Ilmarinen, right after the sampo, and has been warming the hearts since of Europeans and Americans.[/QUOTE]

Someone is trying to be funny.. Due to that i realy dont know how translate that word so will leave this matter alone..

[QUOTE=fable]
Haven't watched television in 15 years. Quite seriously. How would you say it compares to Sweden, the Netherlands, or the UK?[/QUOTE]

Sweden would be best ques... but now it is pretty much like in UK(raining all the time and even now it is +3*c warm).. But not seen TV for 15 years... good for you i would say.. but sadly you have missed all that drama and soap ophera series.. wich i would call comedy.. yes everything American wich has Drama on it is comedy..

[QUOTE=fable]
And just how many RPGs aren't like this?
[/QUOTE]

WEll there is few gems that aren't crappy like BG2.. IWD2 and game called prehistoric 2..

[QUOTE=fable]
But then IWD serie.. i realy like IWD1 and 2.. for me it is best ''roleplay'' feeling that any game has made.. and i just dont seam to get enough of IWD1 and 2..

Utterly linear, uninteresting NPCs, endless battles that are in no way better than those of BG2, and plot holes so wide that the games should have been sold with ropes.
[/QUOTE]

When we are talking about games most people just want that ''freedom'' but that is onething that almost kill whole roleplay feeling.. Personally good RPG needs to be hectic.. and not like if it is too hard return after 50 years and you will be OK.. and mean time if you dont do anything things will be same..

Isaer and Madea unintresting? What about Orrick the Gray? for me those are one of best NPC's after FF1.. then there was Poquel in IWD1.. and Larrel..

But as for plot.. IWD2 was published unfinished.. and as for plot with holes that is main thing why i love IWD2.. with those SMALL holes i can do little altering with plot and add some my char backrounds..

Battles? Oh HEll yes give me more goblins to kill.. almost every battle was epic and long.. you needed to controll your party so they would do smart things.. and to survive.. and as boss fights.. i realy enjoyed those.. And in BlackIsle games only IWD serie has created interesting final fights..

And as for those ropes...yes i admit this game should have ropes sold with it... but why not planks? Those would be better...but i think i could create better use for those ropes.. (ties fable and puts him in plane and sents to Irag. Now people at this forum are free and happy becyuse now they shall talk free without fables tyranny)

Yes Morrowind has many flaws.. but those can be ignored if try hard enough..

But as for quiet start in seyda neen.. are you realy that boring? I would recomend following coast line to north-west.. and exploring every cave wich you would see.. that is my recomendation..

miciah · Post by **miciah** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:55 pm

I second Fable's suggestion that you hang around Seyda Neen for a while to begin character development and get a feel for the game. The only other suggestion that pops into my head is that I think it's a good idea to follow the main quest at the beginning.

When I played my first character in MW I didn't immediately follow the main quest. Once I finished everything I could think of to do in Seyda Neen, rather than travelling to find the contact I was given (which is the first step in the main quest line), I chose to go in the opposite direction and travelled to Vivec. Of course, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with doing this. But in hindsight I think that initially following the main quest is the best way to continue character development after Seyda Neen.

In the beginning, simply taking off on your own to find what you may can be fun, but if you're actually trying to do some role playing, it can also potentially feel like you're set adrift in an overwhelming sea of non-linear open-ended options. In addition to the main quest there are House quests, guild quests, religious quests, random character quests, caves, mines, ruins, shrines, etc. You'll cross back and forth over these threads continuously during the game. The gameplay can seem arbitrary with no apparent reason to do anything in particular or choose one way over another.

The main quest gives some form and purpose to the initial gameplay, and I also think it's a good way to begin to assimilate the social and political information of the game. It's also tailored to provide a little bit of developmental assistance to weak, newbie characters which, while not necessary, is useful.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:07 am

[QUOTE=miciah]When I played my first character in MW I didn't immediately follow the main quest. Once I finished everything I could think of to do in Seyda Neen, rather than travelling to find the contact I was given (which is the first step in the main quest line), I chose to go in the opposite direction and travelled to Vivec. Of course, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with doing this. But in hindsight I think that initially following the main quest is the best way to continue character development after Seyda Neen.

In the beginning, simply taking off on your own to find what you may can be fun, but if you're actually trying to do some role playing, it can also potentially feel like you're set adrift in an overwhelming sea of non-linear open-ended options.

The main quest gives some form and purpose to the initial gameplay, and I also think it's a good way to begin to assimilate the social and political information of the game. It's also tailored to provide a little bit of developmental assistance to weak, newbie characters which, while not necessary, is useful.[/QUOTE]

I agree on both the above points.
I ended up finishing the main quest when I was around level 45, and I think ideally it should probably be completed when you are under level 20. Otherwise it lacks challenge and feels anticlimactic, which is not really what you want when you have been playing the hero, and prevented the Morrowind version of the Apocalypse

It also makes sense from a roleplaying perspective... Afterall, the end of the world is nigh!

Also, I do think it can be important to provide yourself with some sort of framework, because since the game is so vast and non-linear, you can quite easily feel overwhelmed, or you spend a lot of time just drifting. The drifting and exploring is a lot of fun, but I think it works best as a sort of break in between quests. But of course, that is personal and very subjective, everyone has a different playing style

Sir Redweed · Post by **Sir Redweed** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:19 am

Thanks

Thanks for the response/guidance.

The question about ranking the RP games out there was more in reference to finding an alternative to BG and Icewind Dale series. These are the only two I have played and wanted feedback on other games out there.

I do appreciate the comments, whether negative or positive, about the BG series. It was one that I really enjoyed playing thru. I agree that by the end of BG (TOB) you were way to powerful but that happens sometimes.

Someone mentioned Betrayal at Krondor. I have it and never even installed it. Worth playing?

What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:18 am

Diablo 2... is game to try out.. i am not sure but due to 1.10 patch all dupes should be gone as should be hacks..

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:00 pm

Again, we're getting way outside the discussion of Morrowind in these threads. Please, let's keep all future questions and answers about that title, only. I'll have to start deleting posts that aren't.

Redweed, I'll answer you about Betrayal at Krondor via PMs.

techoluvr · Post by **techoluvr** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:43 pm

I would agree with fable. Just stay close to seyda neen and participate in a few rewarding misc. quests that are fairly rewarding to enterprising new playerz