)Favoite Clan?
Sorry ti dissapoint u penny but i don't know were did u read all of thet. Half of my home library is aboaut the medieval history of romania, and half of this material speaks of Vlad Tepes and his father Vlad Dracu. So i should have a preety good idea of what i am talking about, plus the material is writen bi romanian historians and not by some outside historians who write only to increase they sales of books. Yeah he was cruel bun only with the trators and that after a trial, and with the turks constantly invading our contry. if u want more i can send u more on ur email because i dontwant u to thing i say all this for no reason( did i meation that i was romanian )
)There is a place that still remains
It eats the fear it eats the pain
The sweetest price you'll have to pay
THE DAY THE WHOLE WORLD WENT AWAY
It eats the fear it eats the pain
The sweetest price you'll have to pay
THE DAY THE WHOLE WORLD WENT AWAY
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Dominic Brujah
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:35 pm
- Contact:
As the name implies: Brujah.
Brujah vampires are the backbone of the camarilla whether the cammies would like to admit it or not. Who will save the camarilla from Sabbat raids? The Ventrue? The Toreador? These clans simply cannot match the effectiveness of an angry brujah in combat. Anybody who messes with a brujah is either dead meat or dust. The Gangrel? They're independent now. Not in the game, but on pnp. They care little for the politics of the other vampires. The Brujah fight for change. They do not sit in a tower like LaCroix, or hide like the Toreador. As for those of the clan that are with the anarchs, they are doing something about the situation. Malkavians are crazy, the nosferatu are scared, whereas the clan Brujah is out on the front lines defending their cause.
In my book, that deserves the title of best clan.
Although they do have their obvious flaws... nobody's perfect. The other clans have their uses, but without the Brujah (Camarilla or Anarch), the Sabbat would win.
Brujah vampires are the backbone of the camarilla whether the cammies would like to admit it or not. Who will save the camarilla from Sabbat raids? The Ventrue? The Toreador? These clans simply cannot match the effectiveness of an angry brujah in combat. Anybody who messes with a brujah is either dead meat or dust. The Gangrel? They're independent now. Not in the game, but on pnp. They care little for the politics of the other vampires. The Brujah fight for change. They do not sit in a tower like LaCroix, or hide like the Toreador. As for those of the clan that are with the anarchs, they are doing something about the situation. Malkavians are crazy, the nosferatu are scared, whereas the clan Brujah is out on the front lines defending their cause.
In my book, that deserves the title of best clan.
Although they do have their obvious flaws... nobody's perfect. The other clans have their uses, but without the Brujah (Camarilla or Anarch), the Sabbat would win.
Brujahs are nice frontline fighters....but there are other weapons to employ...
A Toreador fighter ( probably someone who loves the art of fencing, or swordfighting ) is awesome too. There are some Celerity 6 powers that are nasty....
A Nosferatu killer is a bad thing too....first he sneaks up on you and his potence makes him a badass melee fighter. In one of the Vampire Clan Novels, there was a Nosferatu who used a flamethrower with great effect. Hiding with Obfuscate and then killing everyone with fire.
A Toreador fighter ( probably someone who loves the art of fencing, or swordfighting ) is awesome too. There are some Celerity 6 powers that are nasty....
A Nosferatu killer is a bad thing too....first he sneaks up on you and his potence makes him a badass melee fighter. In one of the Vampire Clan Novels, there was a Nosferatu who used a flamethrower with great effect. Hiding with Obfuscate and then killing everyone with fire.
Lucita y Aragon, Childe of Ambrosio Luis Moncada, Childe of Silvester de Ruiz, Childe of Boukephos, Childe of Lasombra
I think Dominic is certainly right in the case of Camarilla fighting with other sects such as the Sabbat or Kuei-Jin. In most cases for the Camarilla, the Brujah have been the troops on the battlefield. The Brujah clan, by and large, is made up of people who are not afraid of a good fight (and, as such, their clan disciplines lend themselves to the battlefield). As a result of this, they are generally the ones on the streets doing the battle with the Sabbat packs or what have you.
Its for that reason that the Anarchs are moreorless tolerated in moderation. The Princes like to use the rabble for their purposes, because the Anarchs are willing to get their hands dirty. Occasionally,disgruntled Ventrue or Toreador will throw their hats in with the Brujah, but the point remains - the Brujah are the ones who typically are holding the front lines. Certainly other clans are capable of it, but they don't do it. The only exception would be the Gangrel, who are also born fighters. The problem is that the Gangrel are generally far and few between in the cities. And, of course, in the later White Wolf mythology, they leave the Camarilla.
All of this is not the question the potential or power of individual clans. Certainly, each clan is capable of terrible power. It's simply to say, that for the most part, in the sect wars, the Brujah tend to make up the major troops of the Camarilla. The Nosferatu remain the information gatherers, the Ventrue and Toreador are the "generals" and "benefactors," the Tremere are ususally working behind the frontlines some terrible magic to give the Camarilla the upper hand (the more powerful magic, remember, comes from rituals and "team rituals," at that, so Tremere typically aren't at the front lines by necessity rather than choice), the Malks are wild cards, and the Gangrel are often scouts or on the frontline as well.
Its for that reason that the Anarchs are moreorless tolerated in moderation. The Princes like to use the rabble for their purposes, because the Anarchs are willing to get their hands dirty. Occasionally,disgruntled Ventrue or Toreador will throw their hats in with the Brujah, but the point remains - the Brujah are the ones who typically are holding the front lines. Certainly other clans are capable of it, but they don't do it. The only exception would be the Gangrel, who are also born fighters. The problem is that the Gangrel are generally far and few between in the cities. And, of course, in the later White Wolf mythology, they leave the Camarilla.
All of this is not the question the potential or power of individual clans. Certainly, each clan is capable of terrible power. It's simply to say, that for the most part, in the sect wars, the Brujah tend to make up the major troops of the Camarilla. The Nosferatu remain the information gatherers, the Ventrue and Toreador are the "generals" and "benefactors," the Tremere are ususally working behind the frontlines some terrible magic to give the Camarilla the upper hand (the more powerful magic, remember, comes from rituals and "team rituals," at that, so Tremere typically aren't at the front lines by necessity rather than choice), the Malks are wild cards, and the Gangrel are often scouts or on the frontline as well.
Vladdy Hell!
OK - first - there were a lot of cruel despots who used terror as a weapon - firing the heads of decapitated enemies into a beseiged city did not start with LotR - fearsome cruelty was part of statecraft and remains so - think of Chechen/Mujahadin tactics (against the Russians/Soviets) and A-Q or even Nero - fear of cruelty is a powerful weapon in the hands of the amoral. Vlad was simply a more famous user of terror - Tamerlane and others rivalled him for fame.
It is always difficult to gain a fair impression of historical figures from so long ago when literacy was rare and those who could write were usually involved in politics. Vlad may have been as bad as rumoured, or worse, but it is difficult to separate legend from fact.
let us agree that his reputation was for what we would regard as excessive cruelty.
Dracula, the Bram Stoker character, was a fairly modern fictional character. He was not 'merchandised' or 'franchised' and nobody tried to develop formal RPG rules or incorporate him into a milieu until modern times. He was not a T-Clan Vamp, unless the T were devised around him. Even so, by appearance he appears to have little in common with the COMPUTER GAME version of them. in terms of the C-G, he would be most like a Ventrue with a few added disciplines and with weaknesses that the game characters do not have.
So far as this thread began, the Malks are both the most fun and the most frustrating, the Tremere are the most awesome with the best Haven and the Toreador have been the best 'rounded', so I'll vote for Ventrue, just to be quixotic.
OK - first - there were a lot of cruel despots who used terror as a weapon - firing the heads of decapitated enemies into a beseiged city did not start with LotR - fearsome cruelty was part of statecraft and remains so - think of Chechen/Mujahadin tactics (against the Russians/Soviets) and A-Q or even Nero - fear of cruelty is a powerful weapon in the hands of the amoral. Vlad was simply a more famous user of terror - Tamerlane and others rivalled him for fame.
It is always difficult to gain a fair impression of historical figures from so long ago when literacy was rare and those who could write were usually involved in politics. Vlad may have been as bad as rumoured, or worse, but it is difficult to separate legend from fact.
let us agree that his reputation was for what we would regard as excessive cruelty.
Dracula, the Bram Stoker character, was a fairly modern fictional character. He was not 'merchandised' or 'franchised' and nobody tried to develop formal RPG rules or incorporate him into a milieu until modern times. He was not a T-Clan Vamp, unless the T were devised around him. Even so, by appearance he appears to have little in common with the COMPUTER GAME version of them. in terms of the C-G, he would be most like a Ventrue with a few added disciplines and with weaknesses that the game characters do not have.
So far as this thread began, the Malks are both the most fun and the most frustrating, the Tremere are the most awesome with the best Haven and the Toreador have been the best 'rounded', so I'll vote for Ventrue, just to be quixotic.
"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players"
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pennypincher
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:21 pm
- Location: Australia! WOO!
- Contact:
I reckon White Wolf made Vlad Tzimisce because of:
1) Location Location Location. They made the Tzimisce to be the heartless rulers of the viovods (sp?) of the "darker lands" like Russia and Transilvania, Romania and what not in times when they were ruled by local lords who, as you pointed out, usualy ruled through terror and fear of "justice".. Which could come at any time for no reason at all.
2) His penchant for tourture and bloodshed made him fit in with the ideals of the local fuding Timzisce, but they also wanted him to be a slightly set apart, rebellious figure so that he would stand out in history the way he did IRL.
As far as the more modern incarnation of Vlad as Brams Dracula, yeah it's all pretty much just the classic vampire powers lumped into one person. Turns to mist, commands the wolves, controls mortals minds, sees through the bats, changes his apperance at will, is strange and twisted or perfect and beautiful, becomes a giant blood drinking bat demon at will... Suffice to say, these powers closely imitate the ones White Wolf gave Clan Tzimisce. Observe!
Animalism: Grants the power to see through the eyes of animals and commands them, however it also grants the power over the INNER beast, turning mortals into putty in your hands without the strength to fight back
Auspex: Allows him to see for miles and be one with his kingdom, read minds, hear whispered conversations and tell someones entier past just by touching their favourite ring or watch.
Viccisitude: "It is the man himself, see how he has grown young!" It allows you to change your apperance or the appaerance of someone else with a little nip and tuck, but also latter allows the transformation into a giant bat/man monster.
So, yeah, that was White Wolf's excuse anyway.
1) Location Location Location. They made the Tzimisce to be the heartless rulers of the viovods (sp?) of the "darker lands" like Russia and Transilvania, Romania and what not in times when they were ruled by local lords who, as you pointed out, usualy ruled through terror and fear of "justice".. Which could come at any time for no reason at all.
2) His penchant for tourture and bloodshed made him fit in with the ideals of the local fuding Timzisce, but they also wanted him to be a slightly set apart, rebellious figure so that he would stand out in history the way he did IRL.
As far as the more modern incarnation of Vlad as Brams Dracula, yeah it's all pretty much just the classic vampire powers lumped into one person. Turns to mist, commands the wolves, controls mortals minds, sees through the bats, changes his apperance at will, is strange and twisted or perfect and beautiful, becomes a giant blood drinking bat demon at will... Suffice to say, these powers closely imitate the ones White Wolf gave Clan Tzimisce. Observe!
Animalism: Grants the power to see through the eyes of animals and commands them, however it also grants the power over the INNER beast, turning mortals into putty in your hands without the strength to fight back
Auspex: Allows him to see for miles and be one with his kingdom, read minds, hear whispered conversations and tell someones entier past just by touching their favourite ring or watch.
Viccisitude: "It is the man himself, see how he has grown young!" It allows you to change your apperance or the appaerance of someone else with a little nip and tuck, but also latter allows the transformation into a giant bat/man monster.
So, yeah, that was White Wolf's excuse anyway.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
Yeah, White Wolf did make Vlad a Tzimisce (and all of penny's reasons are pretty much the reason why). And, no, this doesn't mean that he necessarilly resembles the modern incarnation of that clan. As I said earlier, he was never a typical Tzimisce. Moreover, he was embraced prior to some of the "monstrousness" of the clan really becoming en vogue. That's been, moreorless, a product or devise utilized by some of the modern Sabbat Anyway, you can find White Wolf's version of Dracula in the "Children of the Inquisition" book as well as the Transylvania Chroncles, which is a Vampire: Dark Ages adventure.
Actually, the Children of the Inquisition book was made available by White Wolf as a free download a few years ago. It's still on their website: http://www.white-wolf.com/Download/Pages/Books2.html in both html and text format. You can read their history of Dracula there, if it suits you.
Actually, the Children of the Inquisition book was made available by White Wolf as a free download a few years ago. It's still on their website: http://www.white-wolf.com/Download/Pages/Books2.html in both html and text format. You can read their history of Dracula there, if it suits you.
Dracula
If you ask me although Tzimisce seems most appropriate for Dracula he can pretty much fit the role of most clans from Ventrue to Baali, Tremere to Lasombra to even Ravnos, Giovanni and some extent Setites. Dracula for novel purposes is supposed to be the Devil or Dragon (hence the name son of Dragon) clad in human flesh. His disciplines also fall a little short, no mist form or necromancy. Overall though white wolf's version is probably more realistic.
If you ask me although Tzimisce seems most appropriate for Dracula he can pretty much fit the role of most clans from Ventrue to Baali, Tremere to Lasombra to even Ravnos, Giovanni and some extent Setites. Dracula for novel purposes is supposed to be the Devil or Dragon (hence the name son of Dragon) clad in human flesh. His disciplines also fall a little short, no mist form or necromancy. Overall though white wolf's version is probably more realistic.
to pennypincher
I bow before ur knowledge abaut the game and the rules of the game wich i probabli never learn or read any of the books,because i dont think i can get them, but please please if u r not up to date with ur history leave it that way. please dont make any omment abaut something u gat an idea from a single book or something like that. Romania a darkland ruled with terror? PLEASE!!! not even close . And why pu romania and Russia in the same sentance? Romania=latin country , Russia=slav country. Just because they are near oneonother doesnt mean they r alyke.
Oh and to set everything clear the most things u read about vlad is from some books writen by some englys and french hystotians wich are based of some letters send by local barons to the hungarian and turckysh courts to discredit vlad and to take the throne from him( lies lies lies).
that is all and this is my last post on this thread regarding this subject. if anyone needs more details i'll send material over email, but i doubt anyone would. Have fun with this great game
MALKAVIAN RULE!!!!!
P.S. VOIVODS spells VOIEVOZI(PL) AND VOIEVOD(SG)
I bow before ur knowledge abaut the game and the rules of the game wich i probabli never learn or read any of the books,because i dont think i can get them, but please please if u r not up to date with ur history leave it that way. please dont make any omment abaut something u gat an idea from a single book or something like that. Romania a darkland ruled with terror? PLEASE!!! not even close . And why pu romania and Russia in the same sentance? Romania=latin country , Russia=slav country. Just because they are near oneonother doesnt mean they r alyke.
Oh and to set everything clear the most things u read about vlad is from some books writen by some englys and french hystotians wich are based of some letters send by local barons to the hungarian and turckysh courts to discredit vlad and to take the throne from him( lies lies lies).
that is all and this is my last post on this thread regarding this subject. if anyone needs more details i'll send material over email, but i doubt anyone would. Have fun with this great game
MALKAVIAN RULE!!!!!
P.S. VOIVODS spells VOIEVOZI(PL) AND VOIEVOD(SG)
There is a place that still remains
It eats the fear it eats the pain
The sweetest price you'll have to pay
THE DAY THE WHOLE WORLD WENT AWAY
It eats the fear it eats the pain
The sweetest price you'll have to pay
THE DAY THE WHOLE WORLD WENT AWAY
Actually
Although I am in no position to criticise, only being able to communicate properly in English (albeit with some German, French, Italian, Spanish, American, Dutch and Flemish) I would find it hard work reading more than a posting in the version of English that PP writes in.
I do have a considerable interest in history (and have written fact-based drama set in previous eras following considerable research) - so if you want to enlighten me (!) point me at a website that will correct any misunderstandings about Vlad the Impaler.
Fair enough?
Although I am in no position to criticise, only being able to communicate properly in English (albeit with some German, French, Italian, Spanish, American, Dutch and Flemish) I would find it hard work reading more than a posting in the version of English that PP writes in.
I do have a considerable interest in history (and have written fact-based drama set in previous eras following considerable research) - so if you want to enlighten me (!) point me at a website that will correct any misunderstandings about Vlad the Impaler.
Fair enough?
"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players"
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fable
- Posts: 30676
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Celacena, Docking isn't referring to your message, but to a paragraph by Pennypincher:
1) Location Location Location. They made the Tzimisce to be the heartless rulers of the viovods (sp?) of the "darker lands" like Russia and Transilvania, Romania and what not in times when they were ruled by local lords who, as you pointed out, usualy ruled through terror and fear of "justice".. Which could come at any time for no reason at all.
For what little I've read of it over the years, Vlad certainly didn't rule by terror. He was one of a number of regional lords, a voivode, and spent much of his life in Wallachia repelling invasions by the Turks and Magyars. He did the former under the banner of the Holy Roman Empire, which helped secure him additional advantages he could play against other, nearby rulers who were his rivals. His methods were typical for his period, but no worse than many of the horrific things done in the Italian states, in France, the German states, etc, by their rulers. There's no record that he used impalement on locals. It was a deliberate message to those he deemed invaders. And when Bram Stoker decided he needed a semi-historical character for his Victorian vampire novel, Vlad with his reputation (through German stories) was ready made.
I suspect Stoker chose Romania as his setting for the eminently Victorian reason that it played into contemporary British bigotry and particular foreign stereotypes, but just because it did doesn't mean we have to believe them, ourselves.
1) Location Location Location. They made the Tzimisce to be the heartless rulers of the viovods (sp?) of the "darker lands" like Russia and Transilvania, Romania and what not in times when they were ruled by local lords who, as you pointed out, usualy ruled through terror and fear of "justice".. Which could come at any time for no reason at all.
For what little I've read of it over the years, Vlad certainly didn't rule by terror. He was one of a number of regional lords, a voivode, and spent much of his life in Wallachia repelling invasions by the Turks and Magyars. He did the former under the banner of the Holy Roman Empire, which helped secure him additional advantages he could play against other, nearby rulers who were his rivals. His methods were typical for his period, but no worse than many of the horrific things done in the Italian states, in France, the German states, etc, by their rulers. There's no record that he used impalement on locals. It was a deliberate message to those he deemed invaders. And when Bram Stoker decided he needed a semi-historical character for his Victorian vampire novel, Vlad with his reputation (through German stories) was ready made.
I suspect Stoker chose Romania as his setting for the eminently Victorian reason that it played into contemporary British bigotry and particular foreign stereotypes, but just because it did doesn't mean we have to believe them, ourselves.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
nice one fable
I think this is the first time i've heard someone foreigner(not romanian), that knows true facts about Vlad Tepes. good 4 u Fable. Good moderator too.
p.s. for pennypincher (i forgat to write this in my last post) : Transilvania is a region in Romania. is not a different country. is part of Romania. thank u. the offer remains : if u want i can send u over email more
I think this is the first time i've heard someone foreigner(not romanian), that knows true facts about Vlad Tepes. good 4 u Fable. Good moderator too.
p.s. for pennypincher (i forgat to write this in my last post) : Transilvania is a region in Romania. is not a different country. is part of Romania. thank u. the offer remains : if u want i can send u over email more
There is a place that still remains
It eats the fear it eats the pain
The sweetest price you'll have to pay
THE DAY THE WHOLE WORLD WENT AWAY
It eats the fear it eats the pain
The sweetest price you'll have to pay
THE DAY THE WHOLE WORLD WENT AWAY
[QUOTE=docking] Romania=latin country , Russia=slav country. Just because they are near oneonother doesnt mean they r alyke.
Oh and to set everything clear the most things u read about vlad is from some books writen by some englys and french hystotians wich are based of some letters send by local barons to the hungarian and turckysh courts to discredit vlad and to take the throne from him( lies lies lies).
[/QUOTE]
I've stayed out of the historical discussion largely because my knowledge of Romanian history or Vlad Dracula, in general, are fairly limited. I did have a couple questions, though. First off, I'd say the tendency to place Romania in with the Slavic countries by Western historians is fairly common. So, you'll have to forgive us on making that assumption. It's a byproduct of the Cold War mentality, when we established virtual boundaries between west and eastern Europe. Obviously, many of those are mischaracterizations, on our part. Still, I'm not crazy about the assumption that only Romanian historians are interested in solid historical research. As a historian myself (though several centuries removed from Dracula and several countries removed from Romania), I have found well meaning scholars throughout the world and most of the books they sell don't produce royalties enough to sell their reputations. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, though. I think you were just referring to the sensationalism around Dracula.
I was curious, however, about a couple things. It does seem fairly clear that Vlad used a variety of heinous measures over against his enemies in order to strike fear into them. It's also clear that these measures were often very effective, and they helped transform him into a legendary figure. He struck a terrifying presence and was able to defeat the Turks on numerous occasion. Moreover, even among his own people, he created a society that was relatively free of crime. However, I'm curious as to whether Vlad is lionized in modern Romanian society? Is he a sort of medieval hero?
The other point is that, from what I can gather, there are three key pieces of historical evidence used to tell the tales of Vlad Dracula: German and Russian Pamphlets published after Vlad's death and the Romanian Oral Tradition. Now, we know that both pamphlets (which were largely for entertainment purposes, and were obviously propaganda in many places) and the oral tradition are flawed means of uncovering the "truth" about any historical figure.
From what I gather, the reason that many historians give credibility to some of the pamphlets that were disseminated is because there's a remarkable amount of agreement between the Russian and German sources (again, these were not exactly cultures on friendly terms, so there would have been no collaboration or borrowing; or at least that's something to consider). It's in these sources that instances of his evil acts against his own people are recounted, I believe (such as the mass slaughtering of Wallachia's poor at a dinner held in their honor, etc.). So, my question is, how do you weight the evidence?
Again, I'm really curious. I don't have a lot invested in the subject, but am merely trying to figure out how you think we should sift through the evidence laid out. Thanks so much.
Oh and to set everything clear the most things u read about vlad is from some books writen by some englys and french hystotians wich are based of some letters send by local barons to the hungarian and turckysh courts to discredit vlad and to take the throne from him( lies lies lies).
[/QUOTE]
I've stayed out of the historical discussion largely because my knowledge of Romanian history or Vlad Dracula, in general, are fairly limited. I did have a couple questions, though. First off, I'd say the tendency to place Romania in with the Slavic countries by Western historians is fairly common. So, you'll have to forgive us on making that assumption. It's a byproduct of the Cold War mentality, when we established virtual boundaries between west and eastern Europe. Obviously, many of those are mischaracterizations, on our part. Still, I'm not crazy about the assumption that only Romanian historians are interested in solid historical research. As a historian myself (though several centuries removed from Dracula and several countries removed from Romania), I have found well meaning scholars throughout the world and most of the books they sell don't produce royalties enough to sell their reputations. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, though. I think you were just referring to the sensationalism around Dracula.
I was curious, however, about a couple things. It does seem fairly clear that Vlad used a variety of heinous measures over against his enemies in order to strike fear into them. It's also clear that these measures were often very effective, and they helped transform him into a legendary figure. He struck a terrifying presence and was able to defeat the Turks on numerous occasion. Moreover, even among his own people, he created a society that was relatively free of crime. However, I'm curious as to whether Vlad is lionized in modern Romanian society? Is he a sort of medieval hero?
The other point is that, from what I can gather, there are three key pieces of historical evidence used to tell the tales of Vlad Dracula: German and Russian Pamphlets published after Vlad's death and the Romanian Oral Tradition. Now, we know that both pamphlets (which were largely for entertainment purposes, and were obviously propaganda in many places) and the oral tradition are flawed means of uncovering the "truth" about any historical figure.
From what I gather, the reason that many historians give credibility to some of the pamphlets that were disseminated is because there's a remarkable amount of agreement between the Russian and German sources (again, these were not exactly cultures on friendly terms, so there would have been no collaboration or borrowing; or at least that's something to consider). It's in these sources that instances of his evil acts against his own people are recounted, I believe (such as the mass slaughtering of Wallachia's poor at a dinner held in their honor, etc.). So, my question is, how do you weight the evidence?
Again, I'm really curious. I don't have a lot invested in the subject, but am merely trying to figure out how you think we should sift through the evidence laid out. Thanks so much.
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Talley_theHound
- Posts: 23
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I have been following theses post on Vlad/Dracula and have been enlightened by them. Now my two cents, Vampire:The Masquerade is a game. The world in which it takes place is not ours but a construct of fiction based on info/legends/history/make-believe and the authors adjust to fit. No offense to historians out there, but I would be more interested about OWOD “Dracula” in V:TM or V:TMBL. I always thought of Dracula as being Lasombra, mainly for the “Casts No Reflection” weakness, and I do not have any of the relevant source books so thanks for the information.
Also, I have had problems reading some of the post, please be considerate to us that do not use “instant text messaging” and not use shortcuts when writing your post.
Last, I have enjoyed playing all the clans in Bloodlines as each has there strengths and weaknesses. But I have always been partial to the Tremere, the real power behind the Camarilla, i.e. Max Strauss.
Also, I have had problems reading some of the post, please be considerate to us that do not use “instant text messaging” and not use shortcuts when writing your post.
Last, I have enjoyed playing all the clans in Bloodlines as each has there strengths and weaknesses. But I have always been partial to the Tremere, the real power behind the Camarilla, i.e. Max Strauss.
"All the while he dodged and struck, called forth shadow tendrils of his own and moved with a laughing grace that was hypnotically smooth."-Lasombra Clan Novel
for Faust
Here are some thing i can inlighten you about:
1. Yes Romania is a latin country( even the name suggest that somming from Roma(Rome) the capital of the roman empire ).Only like 4-5% of tthe vocabulary is slavic.
2.Yes Vlad is one of our national heroes because of what he had done to protect the the country from the turks and the people from the greedy nobilityn of that time.Hes a hero as like his whole family: grandfather and father. Actualy Vlad empaled his first victims at 8 tears old when he was at a trial of his grandfather when he triald 2 turks emisaries who tried to assasinate him. This was his first judgement witch later he wanted to change but was too late.
3.yes the pamphlets r 90% not true because are inspiered from some letters witch i wrote about in a previous thread. All of the letters must have cantained almost the same thing because they had to seem true.( foe either side)
4.Actualy the letters were written by his cousin and then send to turckis and magyar courts. He was quite gelous of vlad and he wanted the throne so bad.... After that Vlad was inprissoned in a tower for 5 yers. He escaped , reclaimed the throne, empaled teh trators and his cousin but afte 2 years he was assasinated
5.That story of the people mass slaughtering it is true but not quite: first they were not poor, they were all members of the court and turk emisaries who planned to poisone Vlad in that very night. Vlad found out about it organized a feast, and when everyone was there he closed the doors and set the place on fire. so they weren't so poor and inocent.
Hope that was satisfing for u. If u want more give me your email and i will send you more.
Here are some thing i can inlighten you about:
1. Yes Romania is a latin country( even the name suggest that somming from Roma(Rome) the capital of the roman empire
).Only like 4-5% of tthe vocabulary is slavic.2.Yes Vlad is one of our national heroes because of what he had done to protect the the country from the turks and the people from the greedy nobilityn of that time.Hes a hero as like his whole family: grandfather and father. Actualy Vlad empaled his first victims at 8 tears old when he was at a trial of his grandfather when he triald 2 turks emisaries who tried to assasinate him. This was his first judgement witch later he wanted to change but was too late.
3.yes the pamphlets r 90% not true because are inspiered from some letters witch i wrote about in a previous thread. All of the letters must have cantained almost the same thing because they had to seem true.( foe either side)
4.Actualy the letters were written by his cousin and then send to turckis and magyar courts. He was quite gelous of vlad and he wanted the throne so bad.... After that Vlad was inprissoned in a tower for 5 yers. He escaped , reclaimed the throne, empaled teh trators and his cousin but afte 2 years he was assasinated
5.That story of the people mass slaughtering it is true but not quite: first they were not poor, they were all members of the court and turk emisaries who planned to poisone Vlad in that very night. Vlad found out about it organized a feast, and when everyone was there he closed the doors and set the place on fire. so they weren't so poor and inocent.
Hope that was satisfing for u. If u want more give me your email and i will send you more.
There is a place that still remains
It eats the fear it eats the pain
The sweetest price you'll have to pay
THE DAY THE WHOLE WORLD WENT AWAY
It eats the fear it eats the pain
The sweetest price you'll have to pay
THE DAY THE WHOLE WORLD WENT AWAY
I have to admit that I was surprised and pleased to see the Tremere in the first Vampire game -- having been familiar with it from the RPG Ars Magica (another White Wolf creation) -- as just one of many mage houses. They were great. Total power-mongers, and the elders didn't tend to die or retire so much as fade into "final twilight", occasionally reappearing suddenly and temporarily spouting babble, much like David Bowie in Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me. They also each bore the most interesting disfiguring tattoos as manifestations of their growing power.
Not my favorite clan to play otherwise, I'm all about the Malkavians in Bloodlines. Not because they're more fun (which they are) but they see through all the politics. I like the attitude of "you're all gonna play your little games anyway, so I might as well get my piece and tell you you're gonna fail while I'm at it." A Brujah would never get away with the things a Malk says.
Guess I've played in too many "serious" games.
Guess I've played in too many "serious" games.
-
pennypincher
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:21 pm
- Location: Australia! WOO!
- Contact:
Oh Geeze! I forgot that i was discussing something on here:
I find it hard to belive that you've mistaken the "methods {that} were typical for his period" for anything short of barbaric and inhumane. These people did rule by fear, and the Romans were often very little different.. At least at first. People often turned their understanding around when they started getting roads, hopsitals and education.
At an amazingly young age, Vlad was tourturing and killing invaders and traitors alike. At the time, no doubt, this was a thing of beauty, but it makes me blink to think that there are people on her trying to convince us of the fact that being slid down a wooden pole alive by a 10 year old is anything short of brutal and bloodthirsty and a tactic to enspire fear in your enemies. Lord knows -I- don't mess with 10 year olds that can order that done to me... And DO!
Nor would this be the first instance of violence for the sake of what was right in a manner so desperatly vile that it became almost as bad as the crime it was meant to be stopping. I'm sure the Spanish Inquisition springs to a lot of peoples minds, and the witch burnings... Sure, you might belive that Witches turned your cows milk sour, but burning a person alive is twisted!
As far as claims of leraning of poisioning attempts and such, well, suffice to say that history is written by the victors, and if a person regularly impales, burns or slaughters people, you just write what your damm well told. Still it might have been true... If it wasn't a case of paranoia over comming him, which was as popular as inbreeding in the old royal familes.. Thou maybe not so much in the Romanian familes, dont know much about that.
I know where Transilvania is, thanks all the same, I was helping people get an understanding about areas I meant. I know many of the Rom families have coped a lot of unfair slack, and I KNOW the Rom people have also been lumped with a lot of sterotypes (theives, gypsys, con artists) and thats mostly thanks to bad mouthing by surrounding areas and, sadly, TV who just LOVES to have a family of "cunning wandering Rom theives" wander into town.. Thank you Mr Television. However that doesn't change the fact that local lords of many disperate lands and kingdoms were often jealouse, harsh tyrants who held onto whatever they could, anyway they had to.
Anyway, you get the point.
I find it hard to belive that you've mistaken the "methods {that} were typical for his period" for anything short of barbaric and inhumane. These people did rule by fear, and the Romans were often very little different.. At least at first. People often turned their understanding around when they started getting roads, hopsitals and education.
At an amazingly young age, Vlad was tourturing and killing invaders and traitors alike. At the time, no doubt, this was a thing of beauty, but it makes me blink to think that there are people on her trying to convince us of the fact that being slid down a wooden pole alive by a 10 year old is anything short of brutal and bloodthirsty and a tactic to enspire fear in your enemies. Lord knows -I- don't mess with 10 year olds that can order that done to me... And DO!
Nor would this be the first instance of violence for the sake of what was right in a manner so desperatly vile that it became almost as bad as the crime it was meant to be stopping. I'm sure the Spanish Inquisition springs to a lot of peoples minds, and the witch burnings... Sure, you might belive that Witches turned your cows milk sour, but burning a person alive is twisted!
As far as claims of leraning of poisioning attempts and such, well, suffice to say that history is written by the victors, and if a person regularly impales, burns or slaughters people, you just write what your damm well told. Still it might have been true... If it wasn't a case of paranoia over comming him, which was as popular as inbreeding in the old royal familes.. Thou maybe not so much in the Romanian familes, dont know much about that.
I know where Transilvania is, thanks all the same, I was helping people get an understanding about areas I meant. I know many of the Rom families have coped a lot of unfair slack, and I KNOW the Rom people have also been lumped with a lot of sterotypes (theives, gypsys, con artists) and thats mostly thanks to bad mouthing by surrounding areas and, sadly, TV who just LOVES to have a family of "cunning wandering Rom theives" wander into town.. Thank you Mr Television. However that doesn't change the fact that local lords of many disperate lands and kingdoms were often jealouse, harsh tyrants who held onto whatever they could, anyway they had to.
Anyway, you get the point.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.