Tree-hugging hippie or capitalist swine?

[HiRo11er]

So I've just read most of the Anatomy-thread (at work again...), and it seemed to me like most people in this forum lean more towards the left than the right...
With this in mind I wanted to post this and see if people were willing to mention their political stance, and maybe even explain why in a couple of sentences. I'm aware that this kind of information is not usually a topic people share with strangers, but since it's all anonymous I'm sure some people will find it fun.
I'm aware that this thread can spark a lot of random ranting going in all kinds of directions, but if we could try to keep it on topic, and possibly just start new threads if we end up touching on very touchy subjects...

Oh yeah, let's see if we can put ourselves on a scale of 1-10, where 1 is your typical tree-hugging bleeding-heart pinko commie hippie, and 10 is your average power-hungry selfish redneck fascist schweinhund. I'm fully aware that the criteria I've posted are open to interpretation, but that was half the point...
OK, here goes,

I will classify myself as a 3.5 or 4, and that's after becoming more moderate over the last few years. I believe in an extensive welfare system, free health care, and increased taxing depending on income. Against death penalty, pro-choice, pro gun control and generally anti-Bush, based on how dangerous the man is to the global community. Just for the spice of the argument, I will mention that i thoroughly believe that Bush is every bit as dangerous to the world as Hitler was, if not more. I base this on not only Bush's much greater influence, but also because where Hitler was a fairly smart, albeit evil, schemer, I believe Bush Jr. is ignorant enough to not realize the consequences of what he's doing!
Anyway, I also believe the IMF and the World Bank should erase all their oustanding debts, and I believe we should stop burning our left-over crops and start distributing it to parts of the world that need it. Onwards, I believe that world peace will never happen, and i believe i can fly. Fly to the sky, baby.
Kind of a rant there, but that's half the point of this thread!
Anyone else?

[Macleod1701]

Bring back the death penalty for crimes like murder, rape, pheadophilia, massive fraud, and anything else where the person commiting them annoys me or is a racist, bigotted horrible sod!

Fair enough for free health care I'd agree to that but it shouldn't be free for anyone who smokes, takes drugs or causes themselves to be ill for whatever reason, why should I pay a life long smokers bills when they brought it on themselves.

Enough with all this nicely nicely approach towards countries that are violent or terrorist harbours, just nuke the whole lot of them and have done with it.

Oh and politicians should be paid the least amount possible, minimum wage is good enough if they want to serve their country they should do so out of the goodness of their own hearts and not keep giving each other pay increases which I pay for!

Finally someone should actually kick the arses of the oil companies to stop them restricting the market and actually bring in clean fuels and use them in cars and vehicles thus helping the planet.

Ah that was a good rant!

[CM]

I am a conservative. I am a republican if you will. I am an internationalist as well.

I against Abortion.
I am pro death penalty.
I am against unilateral action of one country.
I am pro UN and the international community acting as a whole.
I am against these damn crazy NGOS that hate the WTO and WB and IMF.
I am pro IMF, WB and WTO - very much free trade.
I am pro corporations to an extent.
I am pro free healthcare.
I am pro a welfare state. But i am also very market orientated as well. I am basically a Keynesian economist. I believe the govt has a role in the private market.
I am pro religion in govt - but then again i am Muslim.
I am pro religious laws.

Anything else?

[HiRo11er]

Oh and politicians should be paid the least amount possible, minimum wage is good enough if they want to serve their country they should do so out of the goodness of their own hearts and not keep giving each other pay increases which I pay for!

I second that motion! I say we get a petition going, or something... Good idea!

I am pro religion in govt - but then again i am Muslim.

Speaking of religion in politics, Norway is right up there with the best of 'em in this regard, despite us insisting that we're secular through and through. Actualy, Norway is one of only two countries in the world (not 100% sure, but fairly) that has a priest as prime minister (Iran as well)!

I am pro IMF, WB and WTO - very much free trade.

I have to ask; how do you feel the IMF and the WB contributes to free trade? (As opposed to fair trade)

[CM]

They have excellent policy and research resources. I was taught by 3 guys from the WB - Aaditya Matoo, Bernard Hoekman and Gary Horlick (he aint there anymore) and 1 guy from the IMF for my masters. So i may be biased.

The WB and IMF have nothing to do with trade even though everybody makes out they do. The WB is a developmemt organizations. They build stuff. The don't negotiate. The IMF is a lending institution to correct balance of payments deficit. It is the Fed for the world to bring in a US comparision.

[Aegis]

I'm fine with the concept of the IMF, WB and WTO, if they were a little bit more watchful and mindful of how the assisstence they provide gets used. There have been far too many instances in which these organizations have provided funds for a developing nation (as it's politically incorrect to say 3rd world nation now Damn euphamisms...), and the leaders have squandered it through the beuracracy(sp... Massive spelling. I hate that word), and only a fraction of the funds provided were used for their intended purpose.

But then, I'm also against the whole bretton woods thing, and how the global and financial powers played it to their advantage, leaving the poorer nations to flounder in the wind.

[Vicsun]

Oh yeah, let's see if we can put ourselves on a scale of 1-10, where 1 is your typical tree-hugging bleeding-heart pinko commie hippie, and 10 is your average power-hungry selfish redneck fascist schweinhund.

A one dimensional scale doesn't really cut it; economy wise I'm quite centrist, while having very liberal views regarding society.
Here is a thread featuring an interesting test you might want to take a look at. The thread would also be interesting if you want to get a 'general feel' of where SYM stands politically

[Macleod1701]

Well I just did that test, and was pretty much in the middle but more left and liberal than anything, now read my post above again, does that sound in any way liberal to you?

[Moonbiter]

That test is utter bollocks. I took it, and I ended up on the same spot as The Pope! Yeah, that's just soooooo me!

Edit:

BTW: I'm a tree-hugging capitalist swine.

[Magrus]

I've avoided politics for the most part, just because getting into politics and discussing or researching whats actually going on happens to usually irritate me to no end.

I'd like to say I could toss my views out and have them just simply cut and dry there. However, it happens to be that if I say for example I agree with:

[QUOTE=Macleod1701]Fair enough for free health care I'd agree to that but it shouldn't be free for anyone who smokes, takes drugs or causes themselves to be ill for whatever reason, why should I pay a life long smokers bills when they brought it on themselves.[/QUOTE]

I am not taking into account certain extreme situations. Someone who's decided to blow all his money on drugs and exploit the system, I say screw him. However, someone who wants out of that life and is attempting to improve himself, well drug addicts don't have money lying around to do so. They need that assitance they get to get out of that little hole they've dug for themselves. The government providing those systems is sometimes the ONLY way out for people who want out. Otherwise once your addicted your stuck.

As far as smoking, well as far as I'm concerned, anyone who picked up that habit after it was known that it causes health problems is asking for whatever health problems occur and doesn't deserve help. That, IMO is just like going to the hospital, snatching up a scalpel and stabbing myself with it in front of the desk and demanding help for it. They're just gonna stare at you and go "what is wrong with you?!".

Every issue has your sort of generalization which you could agree with, and then those odd occurances. I'm for free trade and business, yet against corruption and abuse of workers and such. Who's to go about seeing to it those types of things don't occur without the government stepping in?

Then again, I'm anti-government for the most part, frankly against most systems run by humans on general. Too much corruption, greed, and destruction involved. Not to say I want anarchy and a free-for-all, simply the systems are broken as they are now. I don't see that as changing until humanity overall grows and realizes it's errors either.

As far as defense spending with the U.S. Well, while so many people are so concerned with defending the American way of life, and blah blah blah. Our nation has a HUGE debt from passed "adventures" outsides it's borders. Now, I'm not saying shut down and not interact with everyone else, but our country has enough problems of it's own to deal with before running all over and trying to make the rest of the world do it's bidding. Stop blowing money on defending this country, and maybe fix the problems already here inside to make it truly worth defending yes? Maybe once people stop starving in the streets, and people who are sick can actually get the care they need across the board even without being rich to pay for it and such you can worry about maintaining an army to defend such wonderful things. Until then, fix your own mess and shut off worrying about everyone else. Shifting half of what my country spends on defense to other programs would do wonders for this country, even 1/10th would make a huge difference I'd think.

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=Moonbiter]That test is utter bollocks. I took it, and I ended up on the same spot as The Pope! Yeah, that's just soooooo me!

Edit:

BTW: I'm a tree-hugging capitalist swine.[/QUOTE]

LMAO! But I'm sure I can imagine you up on a balcony providing Mass to the multitudes below


er, on topic, I'm fairly left of centre, but not entirely opposed to Capitalism if the people involved are paid well and have decent benefits

[Vicsun]

[QUOTE=dragon wench]er, on topic, I'm fairly left of centre, but not entirely opposed to Capitalism if the people involved are paid well and have decent benefits [/QUOTE]
But who decides if the benefits are decent?

Surely if one decides to work at a particular comapny on his own accord, he would find the benefits offered to him for the work he is doing 'decent' which would in turn mean that no one works for benefits which aren't decent. Right?

[Magrus]

[QUOTE=Vicsun]But who decides if the benefits are decent?

Surely if one decides to work at a particular comapny on his own accord, he would find the benefits offered to him for the work he is doing 'decent' which would in turn mean that no one works for benefits which aren't decent. Right? [/QUOTE]

Not necessarily, sometimes the best options left to you aren't "decent" just because they happen to be whats best that are open to you. In my area, a lot of people are having to settle for just above minimum wage with no health care and be glad they have a job. I'm not talking those just out of high school either.

I picked up a part time job over the summer getting $6 an hour, working right alongside people with families who were making the same money I was. No health care, benefits anything. Why? Jobs are scarce. One lady went through college with a 4 year degree and got stuck there too. It was that, or force her husband to quit his job and move elsewhere and hope there were jobs wherever they've moved.

"Decent" didn't come into play there. She just was working to feed her kids and had to lose her car and walk to work to do so on her salary. She was miserable and found it in no way "decent" yet it put food on the table and thats the best she could get at the time and she did so.

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=Vicsun]But who decides if the benefits are decent?

Surely if one decides to work at a particular comapny on his own accord, he would find the benefits offered to him for the work he is doing 'decent' which would in turn mean that no one works for benefits which aren't decent. Right? [/QUOTE]

In many cases, a union and employer negotiate how decent benefits are. Of course, there are also shops that are non-unionised that are still deemed 'good to work for.' And no.. I'm not advocating that unions are always a panacea, I well know how corrupt and overly bureaucratic they can be sometimes.

Often, people do *not* have much of a choice in terms of selecting the company they work for. They need work in order to meet certain life necessities such as rent and food, and in many cases they are acting in a crowded labour market, of which employers frequently take full advantage by providing low wages, poor work conditions and not much else.

EDIT:
as Magrus describes above

For those lucky enough to work for an employer of their choosing, then yes, I imagine the hypothetical situation you outline is valid.

[giles337]

[QUOTE=Moonbiter]That test is utter bollocks. I took it, and I ended up on the same spot as The Pope! Yeah, that's just soooooo me!

Edit:

BTW: I'm a tree-hugging capitalist swine.[/QUOTE]


The test is pretty accurate. Look at the real as opposed to professed beliefs/values of the church, and compare them to your own. Figures for me, social libetarian, as always

[jopperm2]

I made a thread like this too at one point.

On your scale I'm about a 6.5..

I'm in favor of regulations to abortion.
I'm against gun control.
I'm in favor of reducing the costs of healthcare.
I'm not in favor of privatizing social security.
I'm not in favor of a lot of social programs.
I'm strongly in favor of unlimited free speach.

[dragon wench]

Hmm.. I forgot to put a number rating down. I'm hopeless with numbers, I'm one of those people who when confronted with any kind of chart or graph in a book, article, etc. will immediately skip to the explanatory text

I imagine I'm somewhere between a 2 and a 3.5 depending on frame of mind

I believe in abortion on demand, period. (On many issues I see shades of grey, but I'm unequivocal and unapologetic on this one)
I'm in favour of very strict gun controls.
I'm completely opposed to capital punishment.
I'm in favour of reducing the costs of healthcare, depending on how that is done.
I'm not in favour of privatizing social security.
I'm in favour of most social programs.
I believe in free speech as long as it is not promoting hate or xenophobia

[jopperm2]

I almost forgot. I'm mostly opposed to capital punishment. High Treason and very extreme murders involving multiple victims only.

[CM]

That test mentioned sucked. Its screws up the economic aspect.

[Vicsun]

[QUOTE=CM]That test mentioned sucked. Its screws up the economic aspect.[/QUOTE]
Why do SYMians never feel the need to substantiate their opinions?

Tell us why and how it screws up the economic aspect, fas.

I'll reply to DW&Magrus later - I'm at school right now and have a limited timeframe