When I was replaying Bloodlines I just thought of something. After getting rescued by Jack from the sun right after getting away from the werewolf he says your character goes to sleep.
What is the deal with sleep and vampires. Do they sleep the whole daylight away and awake at sunset or something or like us they need around 5 to 10 hours of rest pending merits and prefer a time of day to do it. I know they can awaken during the day but suffer penalties according to their Humanity or Path (which doesn't seem to occur in Redemption) but what are the specifics of it? Do they feel tired at sunrise, do they suffer penalties for each day they go without sleep as do mortals with fatigue?
Vampires and sleep
Well, in the White Wolf vampire mythology vampires enter a deep sleep (similar to the sleep of death) during the day. More specifically, as the night begins to break into day, vampires will get continuously more tired. They can stay awake during the day, but it is incredibly difficult for them. If they manage to stay awake, they are operating at a sluggish pace at best (and hence suffer penalties in the game rule).
Sleep for vampires is a bit different than it is for the living (it's more like a comatose state). As such, I do not believe that vampires would suffer any actual penalties for missing sleep. They would not be fatigued the next night, etc. I'd imagine, however, that it gets perpetually harder for a vampire to stay awake during daylight hours (meaning, the second hour would be more difficult than the first, etc.). As such, it would be nearly impossible for a vampire to stay awake during the day for a prolonged period of time. I'm not 100% sure about this. It doesn't come up very often. Likewise, I wonder if they function better on cloudy days, my inclination is that the brighter the sun is shining, the more difficult staying awake would be. This isn't fleshed out in the material I've read, either.
Sleep for vampires is a bit different than it is for the living (it's more like a comatose state). As such, I do not believe that vampires would suffer any actual penalties for missing sleep. They would not be fatigued the next night, etc. I'd imagine, however, that it gets perpetually harder for a vampire to stay awake during daylight hours (meaning, the second hour would be more difficult than the first, etc.). As such, it would be nearly impossible for a vampire to stay awake during the day for a prolonged period of time. I'm not 100% sure about this. It doesn't come up very often. Likewise, I wonder if they function better on cloudy days, my inclination is that the brighter the sun is shining, the more difficult staying awake would be. This isn't fleshed out in the material I've read, either.
I see
Well thanks for that. I'm just wondering how long they have to sleep. I'm playing a Tzimisce character right now and it says that they have to sleep around 2 handfuls of native soil otherwise they'll take dice penalty. What I'm wondering is how long they or any vampire has to sleep. I'm assuming that if they have to wake up to fend off a threat during the day they'll take the other Path based penalty without their clan weakness provided they go back to bed. But is it safe to assume that the vampire needs only to sleep for however many hours they would have needed in life "during the daylight hours" or do you think it's more a case of how much sun is out? Meaning that a Tzimisce need only sleep a few minutes each day if there's a constant monsoon blocking out the sun while having to sleep a whole day off to get the black of night?
Well thanks for that. I'm just wondering how long they have to sleep. I'm playing a Tzimisce character right now and it says that they have to sleep around 2 handfuls of native soil otherwise they'll take dice penalty. What I'm wondering is how long they or any vampire has to sleep. I'm assuming that if they have to wake up to fend off a threat during the day they'll take the other Path based penalty without their clan weakness provided they go back to bed. But is it safe to assume that the vampire needs only to sleep for however many hours they would have needed in life "during the daylight hours" or do you think it's more a case of how much sun is out? Meaning that a Tzimisce need only sleep a few minutes each day if there's a constant monsoon blocking out the sun while having to sleep a whole day off to get the black of night?
[QUOTE=Scurifer]Well thanks for that. I'm just wondering how long they have to sleep. I'm playing a Tzimisce character right now and it says that they have to sleep around 2 handfuls of native soil otherwise they'll take dice penalty. What I'm wondering is how long they or any vampire has to sleep. I'm assuming that if they have to wake up to fend off a threat during the day they'll take the other Path based penalty without their clan weakness provided they go back to bed. But is it safe to assume that the vampire needs only to sleep for however many hours they would have needed in life "during the daylight hours" or do you think it's more a case of how much sun is out? Meaning that a Tzimisce need only sleep a few minutes each day if there's a constant monsoon blocking out the sun while having to sleep a whole day off to get the black of night?[/QUOTE]
It's an interesting question. My inclination is to suggest three things, (1) that its inevitable a vampire will have to sleep some during the day. They can fend off sleep, but only for finite period of times. (2) That the lower the humanity (or, alternatively, path) score, the more sleep the vampire is going to require, (3) Finally, the older the vampire is, the more sleep they will require. These last two points relate both to sleep in the day, and to extended states of torpor. I imagine they are relatively parallel ideas in White Wolf mythology. Still, I'm not sure how much sleep younger vampires "require." That's never really been set in stone anywhere. In general, I've never read any White Wolf material that talked about vampires being groggy if they didn't get their 8 hours. So my inclination is that they are in a comotose state until the sun sets (assuming they have no reason to awaken, or disruptions), then awaken fairly refreshed. If their sleep is interrupted, I'm going to guess they still manage to awaken relatively refreshed because of the nature of their sleep.
It's an interesting question. My inclination is to suggest three things, (1) that its inevitable a vampire will have to sleep some during the day. They can fend off sleep, but only for finite period of times. (2) That the lower the humanity (or, alternatively, path) score, the more sleep the vampire is going to require, (3) Finally, the older the vampire is, the more sleep they will require. These last two points relate both to sleep in the day, and to extended states of torpor. I imagine they are relatively parallel ideas in White Wolf mythology. Still, I'm not sure how much sleep younger vampires "require." That's never really been set in stone anywhere. In general, I've never read any White Wolf material that talked about vampires being groggy if they didn't get their 8 hours. So my inclination is that they are in a comotose state until the sun sets (assuming they have no reason to awaken, or disruptions), then awaken fairly refreshed. If their sleep is interrupted, I'm going to guess they still manage to awaken relatively refreshed because of the nature of their sleep.
Thanks again
Thanks for that. It's just that my character has the merit light-sleeper which allows her to wake up whenever she pleases without dice penalty. But the same merit allows a mortal to need only 1 to 2 hours of sleep instead of the normal 5 -10. Can I tell my storyteller that because of this merit that that'll be all the sleep I need? Cause having no dice penalties in the day and needing only that much sleep would be of great benefit as you can imagine. I also took a flaw that means I start off very far away from my homeland in the dark ages with only a coffin where my native soil is stored for sleep.
Thanks for that. It's just that my character has the merit light-sleeper which allows her to wake up whenever she pleases without dice penalty. But the same merit allows a mortal to need only 1 to 2 hours of sleep instead of the normal 5 -10. Can I tell my storyteller that because of this merit that that'll be all the sleep I need? Cause having no dice penalties in the day and needing only that much sleep would be of great benefit as you can imagine. I also took a flaw that means I start off very far away from my homeland in the dark ages with only a coffin where my native soil is stored for sleep.
In theory I think what you're suggesting is okay. I simply can't fathom vampires "needing" sleep in the ways mortals do. However if you were one of my players (I run an online VtM campaign) I'd probably suggest that your merit has limited benefits. I really don't think its possible for a vampire to stay awake during, for example, eight hours of sunlight without extreme efforts on their part even if they are a "light sleeper." So, perhaps, after a few hours of awake time, the benefits of your merit would begin to weaken (make sense?). Ultimately as in all things White Wolf, it's storyteller discretion though.
Regardless, it might be an interesting question to pose on the White Wolf forums. I'm sure you'll find some very knowledgeable folks there.
Regardless, it might be an interesting question to pose on the White Wolf forums. I'm sure you'll find some very knowledgeable folks there.
flaws
the apartment in Skyline is OK - no external windows, but the Chantry and the starting haven are flawed - they have external windows and no coffin-type place to avoid daylight. I didn't notice dark-curtains at the first haven, even if the Chantry may have something like that.
true light sealing is very difficult and it is amazing that any vampire, either in-game or in literature manages to survive for any length of time.
look at the ending of "Nosferatu" (isn't Isabelle Adjani gorgeous?) - the guy is already in an advanced stage of necrotic development, yet rides off into the dawn...
perhaps it is that the level of day-light is well within the recovery-tolerance of the vamps and rather than being fatal, it is only fatal in large quantities, like water/drowning?
any thoughts?
the apartment in Skyline is OK - no external windows, but the Chantry and the starting haven are flawed - they have external windows and no coffin-type place to avoid daylight. I didn't notice dark-curtains at the first haven, even if the Chantry may have something like that.
true light sealing is very difficult and it is amazing that any vampire, either in-game or in literature manages to survive for any length of time.
look at the ending of "Nosferatu" (isn't Isabelle Adjani gorgeous?) - the guy is already in an advanced stage of necrotic development, yet rides off into the dawn...
perhaps it is that the level of day-light is well within the recovery-tolerance of the vamps and rather than being fatal, it is only fatal in large quantities, like water/drowning?
any thoughts?
"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players"
Very right
You're positively correct. Sunlight is like fire. The amount of damage it does depends on how much light hits your body. And how much exposure your character is receiving or how intense the light, that's for difficulty if you play the LARP. Take Blade the movie, a single beam of light didn't do much but a full blast of noon day sunlight fried them.
I've always wondered about my first haven. It made no sense to me how my character was able to live there without any obvious protection from sunlight. I know the Tremere often use dozens of wards against everything from werewolves to sunlight so it didn't surprise me nor did the windowless Downtown apartment. But Santa Monica just looked bad.
@Faust: Are you full up on players. An online VTM campaign sounds like fun (though I warn you, I'm a Tzimisce by nature, can't help it). Would you mind if I join. Feel free to rebuke me as harshly or as kindly as you want.
I like it better when it hurts.
You're positively correct. Sunlight is like fire. The amount of damage it does depends on how much light hits your body. And how much exposure your character is receiving or how intense the light, that's for difficulty if you play the LARP. Take Blade the movie, a single beam of light didn't do much but a full blast of noon day sunlight fried them.
I've always wondered about my first haven. It made no sense to me how my character was able to live there without any obvious protection from sunlight. I know the Tremere often use dozens of wards against everything from werewolves to sunlight so it didn't surprise me nor did the windowless Downtown apartment. But Santa Monica just looked bad.
@Faust: Are you full up on players. An online VTM campaign sounds like fun (though I warn you, I'm a Tzimisce by nature, can't help it). Would you mind if I join. Feel free to rebuke me as harshly or as kindly as you want.
I like it better when it hurts.[QUOTE=Scurifer]
@Faust: Are you full up on players. An online VTM campaign sounds like fun (though I warn you, I'm a Tzimisce by nature, can't help it). Would you mind if I join. Feel free to rebuke me as harshly or as kindly as you want. I like it better when it hurts.[/QUOTE]
Take a look at my website for the game; I think some of the content will look very familiar....
http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~michael.k.turner/
I'm up for a couple more players, actually. We're on a couple week hiatus right now (due to breaks and some travel/work obligations of mine), but float me an e-mail (michael.k.turner@vanderbilt.edu) and we can talk more about it.
@Faust: Are you full up on players. An online VTM campaign sounds like fun (though I warn you, I'm a Tzimisce by nature, can't help it). Would you mind if I join. Feel free to rebuke me as harshly or as kindly as you want.
I like it better when it hurts.[/QUOTE]Take a look at my website for the game; I think some of the content will look very familiar....
http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~michael.k.turner/
I'm up for a couple more players, actually. We're on a couple week hiatus right now (due to breaks and some travel/work obligations of mine), but float me an e-mail (michael.k.turner@vanderbilt.edu) and we can talk more about it.
[QUOTE=Celacena]the apartment in Skyline is OK - no external windows, but the Chantry and the starting haven are flawed - they have external windows and no coffin-type place to avoid daylight. I didn't notice dark-curtains at the first haven, even if the Chantry may have something like that.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about the Chantry since I haven't tried the Tremere character yet, but in the starting haven there are two things that would 'explain' how it was daylight safe according to WhiteWolf source material. The first - if you notice there are several sheets of plywood laying about the floor, in WW novels, those are often used by young vampires to protect their sleeping quarters from daylight. Second - once again from WW novels - is the bathroom. In many of the WW novels, as well as other Vampire novels, the bathroom is the room of choice when finding a place to sleep for the daylight hours.
I don't know about the Chantry since I haven't tried the Tremere character yet, but in the starting haven there are two things that would 'explain' how it was daylight safe according to WhiteWolf source material. The first - if you notice there are several sheets of plywood laying about the floor, in WW novels, those are often used by young vampires to protect their sleeping quarters from daylight. Second - once again from WW novels - is the bathroom. In many of the WW novels, as well as other Vampire novels, the bathroom is the room of choice when finding a place to sleep for the daylight hours.
I normally play LARP vampire so the rules change a little from the TT games, but normally the Merit: Light Sleeper allowed a vampire to wake up one hour before sunset and stay awake one hour past sunrise. It also helped if someone entered your sleeping area during the day as you were not subjected to the normal penalties for movement during daylight hours.It's just that my character has the merit light-sleeper which allows her to wake up whenever she pleases without dice penalty. But the same merit allows a mortal to need only 1 to 2 hours of sleep instead of the normal 5 -10. Can I tell my storyteller that because of this merit that that'll be all the sleep I need? Cause having no dice penalties in the day and needing only that much sleep would be of great benefit as you can imagine. I also took a flaw that means I start off very far away from my homeland in the dark ages with only a coffin where my native soil is stored for sleep.
I've never seen anything, either in WW core rules or the related material, that specified a certain amount of sleep required, only that vampire survival instinct kicked in and forced them to sleep at false dawn and remain asleep until sunset when it was safe to rise again.
[QUOTE=Dralor02]I don't know about the Chantry since I haven't tried the Tremere character yet, but in the starting haven there are two things that would 'explain' how it was daylight safe according to WhiteWolf source material. The first - if you notice there are several sheets of plywood laying about the floor, in WW novels, those are often used by young vampires to protect their sleeping quarters from daylight. Second - once again from WW novels - is the bathroom. In many of the WW novels, as well as other Vampire novels, the bathroom is the room of choice when finding a place to sleep for the daylight hours.[/QUOTE]
Yes, the Tremere haven has a large roomy bathroom with no windows. Really very nice in fact. However, that does give rise to the question "Where does Heather Poe go?" Hard to imagine doing one's personal business with a staring corpse in the same room. (Pity the ghoul with "shy kidneys"!) So does Heather just stuff you in the shower and pull the curtains for modesty's sake? Then when she needs to shower does she drag you out and lean you against the door? Or does she just go ahead and leave you in to save time and water? (She does come off like a hippie/enviro type.) Does she strip your clothes off or does she leave them on so the shower does double duty as a washing machine? And does she just let you drip dry? That would explain why all vampires smell slightly moldy. So many unaswered questions here. Can't wait for "Vampire: The Masquerade - The Bathroom Chronicles".
Yes, the Tremere haven has a large roomy bathroom with no windows. Really very nice in fact. However, that does give rise to the question "Where does Heather Poe go?" Hard to imagine doing one's personal business with a staring corpse in the same room. (Pity the ghoul with "shy kidneys"!) So does Heather just stuff you in the shower and pull the curtains for modesty's sake? Then when she needs to shower does she drag you out and lean you against the door? Or does she just go ahead and leave you in to save time and water? (She does come off like a hippie/enviro type.) Does she strip your clothes off or does she leave them on so the shower does double duty as a washing machine? And does she just let you drip dry? That would explain why all vampires smell slightly moldy. So many unaswered questions here. Can't wait for "Vampire: The Masquerade - The Bathroom Chronicles".
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pennypincher
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As far as using Light Sleeper to stay awake long hours goes, the ultimate answer would be "Yes, but you'd be a poor role player to do it". Sure you could force yourself to stay awake hours on end before finaly dropping off and giving into the beast, but thats reserved for moments of imortal terror and panic... Imagine that there is a raging monster in your heart thrashing about and slowing down your entier body untill even thinking is painful and slugish.. Chosing to live through that every night when you could just roll over and rest would be unlikley in all but the most outstanding circumstances. Not to mention the chances of frenzy would be steadily increasing as you forced your beast to endure more and more of the day... Remember, you only sleep at all because the beast forces you to stop moving at the threat of daylight.
As for the Tremere haven... There is a beautiful little ritual that secures havens from sunlight... Despite any gaps or windows, not a single beam can enter the room. Quite handy! Maybe they have that.
As for the Tremere haven... There is a beautiful little ritual that secures havens from sunlight... Despite any gaps or windows, not a single beam can enter the room. Quite handy! Maybe they have that.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.