Things they should keep and change

[Rudar Dimble]

A bit off topic, but has anyone read, heard or seen anything official about the game yet?

BTW: I personally love drow as villains, but it would be so much more interesting if they made them much more powerful, so they really become frightening to encounter

[Faust]

My major disappointment with the OC (and the expansions, to a slightly lesser extent) was that the storyline fell short of interesting in my places. Honestly, the whole game felt a bit "rushed" to me. The NPCs were not that interesting, for the most part (both your henchman and the in game NPCs). And, moreover, the game quickly degenerated into a hack-and-slash fest. That's not to say I didn't enjoy it at point, or that there weren't some interesting characters (i.e. Deeken and Aribeth come to mind). I think that the anticipation I had for the game in the wake of other D&D titles I loved such as PST and the BG saga colored that disappointment some. It didn't live up to those prior games, and I was expecting superior things from it.

So, I'd like to see NWN2 take hints from Baldurs Gate saga and focus more on careful story and plot development. Quite frankly, it doesn't need to be a storyline about a single character saving the world, as long as it has lots of twists and turns, and doesn't become too trite. Likewise, I'd like to see more careful NPC development. I must admit, I do like at least limited parties. Having NPC banter and romances with the PC, can really add elements of enjoyment to the game, for me.

Likewise, I'd like to see more interesting side quests developed. They need to be more involved than simple fetch missions, or turning in an item you're going to come across anyway. Side-quests need to be something a bit different flavor than the main quests. I, personally, enjoy long side-quests. But I'm open to short, interesting ones as well. Similarly, I like having NPC side-quests. I detested, however, the henchman side quests in NWN OC. They were horrid (I felt that way about KotOR party member side quests as well); so I'd like to see those kinds of things remain, but be brought into the game in a more interesting way.

Finally, I'd like to see more options for doing things. In my estimate, every class should be able to take full extent of their abilities in solving situations. So, there should be alternate routes to complete many quests. Likewise, there should be some quests that are more easily or appropriately completed by certain skill sets (i.e. persuade should be optimal in some situations, stealth in others). Likewise, I like the idea of your actions taking a toll on the world one way or the other (ala KoTOR, etc.)

Anyway, I digress. Anything else is just gravy to me. If they did these things and didn't update the graphics at all, I'd still be thrilled.

[Kienan]

I am just curious: Why are we discussing this here and not at the Obsidian Forums? There people who have power over the game's devolopment might listen. Anyway I am going to see what is happening there. Bye.
EDIT: Here are some links (Note: They lamely link you to Bioware. It appears that Obsidian does not have their own forums!):
Suggestions - Single Player Campaign
Suggestions - Gameplay and Rules
Suggestions - Art and Graphics Engine
Suggestions - Toolset and Community Content

[Aríen]

They need like...tiefling, and part celestial as races.

[Methusela]

[QUOTE=Rudar Dimble]What would you like to see changed in NWN2 and would should be kept (in reference to NWN:OC)

To me, this should be changed:
1. The ridiculous amount of treasure chests in all sorts of places. And they were all locked AND trapped.

2. Lack of really making important role-playing decisions. The game was pretty lineair.

Things that they should hold on to:
1. Non-party system. Playing solo is an important part of NWN. And although you miss the really nice and funny conversations (like in BG2 with Minsc!!!) it allows you to focus on one character and really get 'close' with him

2. The prestige classes! They are so cool. Really gives me the RPG PnP-feeling.

3. Point-buy system, because this keeps you from starting off with an overpowered character. When you get to roll your own stats it's really tempting to just keep rolling till that two or three 18's come up[/QUOTE]

I agree with you also on all points. Although I think that the treasure involved with encounters should be balanced with the challenge rating of the encounter, EXACTLY like it is the the DMG. The treasure should also be LOCATED with the encounter. It's stupid to find treasure in chests and barrels all over the place and then only finding 5000gp and a few gems on old snarl (the great wyrm red in the fire giant caves). You also shouldn't get buggered on xp for using cleverness to defeat an encounter (using the dead dragon soul to weaken old snarl for instance, reduces his challenge rating, which isn't fair).

It would also be cool if they could find a way to include the books that give inherent bonuses to your stats in addition to items that give enhancement bonuses. I would also very much like to see more of the epic feats made available to the game as well. It seems like wizards kinda get left behind after 20th level, while fighters become unstoppable engines of death (dev. crit). They got CLOSE to actual d and d with nwn, I'd like to see nwn2 BE dnd. I'd also like to see them include the Archmage prestige class in the game, with all the powers (and versatility) included. Mastery of elements is quit nice... being able to throw an acid or frost ball at a red dragon is much more fun than being stuck with a fireball.

Also, for the love of god, make the spells work the way they're supposed to. Remove the saving throws from all ranged touch attack spells. Ray of enfeeblement is NOT supposed to have a save, yet nwn gives it one. Just another example of how mages got buggered in nwn. It's hard enough just to score a hit for a mage, you don't need a second chance to be useless.

[Fiberfar]

[QUOTE=Methusela]You also shouldn't get buggered on xp for using cleverness to defeat an encounter (using the dead dragon soul to weaken old snarl for instance, reduces his challenge rating, which isn't fair).

[/QUOTE]

You don't lower the challenge rating by using the dead dragon soul, you just lower his hp.

[Brynn]

More interesting characters (either friend or foe), more spectacular spells (I mean the scrolls and the animation as well - these two-color scrolls are not easy to distinguish quickly, imho, and the animation of some spells could be better, too).

And, most importantly, deeper and more complicated storyline with minor sidequests.

[Fiberfar]

I would like that they balance the classes better that they did in NwN. Take the sorcerer for example, he can outpower a wizard in a PvP game. This need to be fixed, so even a bard stand a chance against a fighter or something like that.

[Heksefatter]

I would like a real party, but with a main character, on the Kotor/Baldur's Gate model. I'd definitely prefer a party, because it really just doesn't make sense to send out a wizard with only one ally. I'd prefer the main character, because that makes for a more involved story line (and I always identify (vanity) with the characters built on the charismatic, intelligent wizard concept.)

I would like better henchman AI, but that goes without saying.

I would like fewer trapped chest. They were SO predictable.

I would like fewer monsters that just gave 4 xp.

I would like fewer monsters to have immunity to spells. All the really tough monsters had spell immunity or great spell resistance, so my own wizard ended up being useless.

[Rudar Dimble]

[QUOTE=Heksefatter]I would like a real party, but with a main character, on the Kotor/Baldur's Gate model. I'd definitely prefer a party, because it really just doesn't make sense to send out a wizard with only one ally. I'd prefer the main character, because that makes for a more involved story line (and I always identify (vanity) with the characters built on the charismatic, intelligent wizard concept.)

I would like better henchman AI, but that goes without saying.

I would like fewer trapped chest. They were SO predictable.

I would like fewer monsters that just gave 4 xp.

I would like fewer monsters to have immunity to spells. All the really tough monsters had spell immunity or great spell resistance, so my own wizard ended up being useless.[/QUOTE]
I haven't played a wizard till the end of the game, but I've heard many people saying they really kicked *** with their wizards

[Soulforged]

First of all i don't care about the point buying, but i think that the levelling cap is just to unreallistic. I do want to improve my character with out limitations. Although i know that this will make the character overpowered, i don't like the 20 level cap (it seems like 20 is magic number on d20, like 7 to the jews) or the distintion between normal levels and epic levels, why? Ok this is a consecuense of the level cap (implemented before the 40 cap on the rules) but what i'm thinking, and i know that this will never be implemented on any rule or in any game, is remove the cap of all the things, make the feats (the ones that could be) like the skills, incrementing them little by little in every level, and not after 2 or 3 levels. Also reducing the HP that the character recieves in every level up, in the high levels. And instead of increasing so much the HP increase the defense more, to me there's to much beating and little blocking or dodging.
And a totally different subject...the graphics, well i know they will improve this and i probably will not be able to play the game just for that. But if you increase the graphics level of detail, then make the detail count on every stage: storyline, world extension and reproduction, items, placeable, cells, all the prestige classes that there exist, customization (as every one above told), equiped items, etc. Bethesda did well on Morrowind with this, and leave enough space to the modders. Also the detail on Roleplaying, i mean that you can play any role, the vendor or the teacher too, and that you cannot learn certain feats, spells or skills with out the appropiate ambient or with out a teacher. Finally (for now) it will be amazing that the free action with the body will make it on this game (but i know that for now it's impossible), but at least make one of the most interesting parts of the game more dinamic and interactive, the combat, like they said that would be on the upcoming Dungeon & Dragons Online, so the movements on battle will depend more on your abilities than on simple azar and also will make more animated the combat, and varieted. Or simple not combat at all, so i approach sneaking to an enemy (with a proper amimations) and i cut his throat or i snap his neck. Things like losing arms, heads, be imapaled, break the blade... all of this has be implemented on Morrowind through various mods, so it can be easy to programers like the ones who work in this project.

[Mordaedil]

[QUOTE=Kienan]I am just curious: Why are we discussing this here and not at the Obsidian Forums? There people who have power over the game's devolopment might listen. Anyway I am going to see what is happening there. Bye.
EDIT: Here are some links (Note: They lamely link you to Bioware. It appears that Obsidian does not have their own forums!):
Suggestions - Single Player Campaign
Suggestions - Gameplay and Rules
Suggestions - Art and Graphics Engine
Suggestions - Toolset and Community Content[/QUOTE]

Reason for that Obsidian does not host in their own forums, is located in a stickie, in the General Forums, which you didn't link to. Infact, a lot of important posts are in the Generals Forum.

The huge FAQ of quotes from the Developer's posts on what IS IN the game! No rumours! Only the words they've said themselves!

Things that are hush-hush! Avoid being a troll. Read this first.

The General Topics Forum.

What we call 'Homepage'. And what you should call 'Bookmark'. Daily visits not really recommended, but we have so little to post about you might as well, if you do not have enough bookies already.

About the reason why Obsidian is on the BioBoards:

This was not always the situation. Around December-time, everything was normal, people posted in the thousands on the Obsidian Boards and things were joyous. Then Atari wanted to attract a bigger market and told Obsidian to move their forums. So, we got space at BioBoards, where things move at 5Kbps instead of lovely 1Mbps. Many were mad about this, and things have never quite been the same. There is also a small IRC Chat-room where we fans sometimes gather... (all 11 of us)and sometimes a Developer drops by and releases a small spoiler or sixteen. And most often these funny stories of past games they've made and parties they got drunk at. Still, it's a rare thing, almost as rare... Well... Meteor-showers. But they do happen!

So... What are you wasting time around here for, if you are interested in Neverwinter Nights 2? Get going! We're waiting for your oppinion!

[VoBo]

First of all: I only read half the first page so many of the things I am saying is most likely already written, but read my reply anyway.

There are many things in NWN which do need to be changed. First of all I hate the experience system, if I only get experience from killing monsters, some classes are not working. For example: To get the maximum experience as a rogue I have to kill every damn monster in the dungeon, when I as a rogue easily could have sneak past the monsters and fetched the quest item. If I have to kill every monster I could just have made a Fighter instead. I think that they shuld put away all experience from monsters only give experience when you finish the quest. But: If you have to kill a boss to finish a quest, you shuld gain experience from it. The monsters who have no importance to the quest shuld give you no experience. This would make some classes more like they are supposed to be. As a rogue you are supposed to sneak around, and as a fighter who can't sneak very good you will have to battle your way forth.

Another thing that really made me tired was NWN: HotU. Was there a monster in Forgotten Realms we didn't meet? In the end you even had to kill one of the Arch Demons. They shuld make the game more "realistic" in the way that you don't have to fight the most rare and thoughest monsters. Many players may have liked killing some monsters from every race but I didn't. They could fix this by making a long game where you are not lvl 40 in the end, I liked the NWN campaign where you in the end were about lvl 20. Ofcourse some places were really boring but not as boring as the frozen hell in HotU.

ADD MORE RACES! Why just elf when you can play Moon Elf or Drow? I havn't really read anything about the game and maybe they are going to add this, and that would be nice. More subraces would grant you more roleplay and a give you character a lot more personality.

Make better quests, more often than not you did only have to read where you had to go and once you were there you started to kill everything in sight and finished the quest by killing some monster thougher than the rest. I would like the quests to be more like they were in BG, ofcourse the only thing you did was killing monsters but somehow it was more fun to kill monsters in BG than in NWN.

I would like to have more NPCs to choose between, and with a variety of different skills, spells and personality.

The last thing I want to be fixed in NWN II is the multiplayer system, I often play multiplayer with my brother in every RPG we buy but some things must be changed from NWN. As for example when you started with NWN: HotU, one minute from the start of the game and the first bug appears: I get stuck in the dream. On the box it said "NWN: HotU is multiplayer supported..." I think not. Another bad thing with multiplaying is the quests, as a assasin I don't want to work for the church for the grater good, but my paladin mate wants to. When we finnish the quests I get "good points" and therefor change my alignment and can't level more as an assasin. Each player in the party shuld be able to choose which quests they want to do, one person shuldn't be the leader of a party with many players.

Keep prestige classes and take away the maximum of three "classes". If I want a assasin/rogue/shadowdancer with some levels as a necromancer please let me have it.

The attribute system shuld be the same, you are good in some things and not so good in others. Priests with 18 in dex? Comon...

One more thing, fix the dialogues. More things to say, that are based on your race, stats, abilities, class and alignment. (I, as a roleplayer, would like to have a lot of things that fit my personality. As an elf I don't give a damn about some poor dwarfs last wish, and as a nobleman I would never ever help some damn beggar who wants me to fetch some family relic for him. In other words, give more choices so that roleplayers actually can roleplay their characters!)

It is to late for me to write more now, please give me some respons on my opinions will you?

[VoBo]

I read some more of the posts now, and the part with drows are fun reading. OFCOURSE they shuld have drows, but then they must also make the game work with drows. Playing a drow in, for example, IWD: II sucked. You could say some cool stuff and acted "drowish" in the dialogues but you couldn't really do one bad thing. In the end you still kill the last boss for the greater good. If they make a campaign where you can play drow, they must also make the campaign realistic as a drow. Every drow isn't Drizzt...

As a drow you are a mean guy who don't give a damn about the world outside Underdark, as long as it isn't about controlling it. If they add drows they must also make the campaign playable, drows don't work for the greater good, they work for themselves.

[Fiberfar]

And I guess that Drizzt isn't the only good drow either.

You say that a cleric with 18 dex is strange? how come. I it is role playing as well when you take the 18 dex as a priest instead of giving him 8 dex and 40 wisdom.

I guess they solved the problem with races by putting the "sub-race" choice in the menu. It would be to much to involve every race in the Forgotten Realms setting IMO. I think that if you want to play a drow, you colour your skin blue/black, your hair white and make a fitting description (also add the evil alignment if you find it needed).

I think the reason they added the 3 class cap is that the game isn't supposed to get out of hand. I mean, without the cap I would have gone for a monk/sorc/RDD/WM just to get max attacks and the highest AB and Strength possible.

This I am not sure about, but as far as I know there are some servers that don't give points for commiting evil and visa versa. And you don't need to chose a paladin as the leader of your team.

I don't mean this as flaming or something what so ever, just pointing out my views

[Jaypee]

I'm tired of the Forgotten Realms, at least the Sword Coast area. Is there any possibility for any other setting? At least for official expansion modules?

Vobo's ideas of gaining experience only from finishing quests and more dialogue options were really good. That would really add some depth to the game. But keep the races and classes at same level, there are enough to choose already.

[Rudar Dimble]

Neverwinter Nights that isn't set on the Forgotten Realms?? That's going to be a bit tricky I think .

You might want to try Planescape: Torment, which isn't set on the FR. Or Dungeons and Dragons Online, where you will play on Eberron. However DDO hasn't been released yet...

[Jaypee]

At least not sword coast, in an expansion module. Please.....

[Rudar Dimble]

HotU isn't Sword Coast based. Well, ok, the beginning is, but I wouldn't call the Underdark itself to be Sword Coast

[Jaypee]

Oh, a world map and non-linear storyline are in my want list too. If you want to poke your nose into dragons nest at lvl-1, I say its up to you....