[QUOTE=dragon wench]Drunk driving is illegal because the lives of others are at stake. Given the direct correlations between smoking and various cancers (and apparently secondhand smoke is even more dangerous because those forced to inhale it don't have the benefit of filters), I don't see why the same set of rules that govern drunk driving shouldn't apply, at least to some extent.[/QUOTE]
Working in a bar is very semdom a full time job, 99% of the people who work there are students who will do this job for about 4 years. This time perioud is not enough to pose a hazard to your health.
Here, the argument is used that people who work there suffer from the smoke. Then don't work there, simple. Plus, this arguement is used by those whowant this 'no smoking rule', people wo actually work there say that they don't have a problem with it.
So far, the only reason I can find that holds ground is Magrus'. If you have a heavy case of asma, cafés are too full of second hand smoke.
Side note: Smoking in restaurants should be forbidden. Smoking during while others are eating is gross.
Its on its way... Public Smoking ban?
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dragon wench
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[QUOTE=Rob-hin]Working in a bar is very semdom a full time job, 99% of the people who work there are students who will do this job for about 4 years. This time perioud is not enough to pose a hazard to your health.
Here, the argument is used that people who work there suffer from the smoke. Then don't work there, simple. Plus, this arguement is used by those whowant this 'no smoking rule', people wo actually work there say that they don't have a problem with it.
So far, the only reason I can find that holds ground is Magrus'. If you have a heavy case of asma, cafés are too full of second hand smoke.
Side note: Smoking in restaurants should be forbidden. Smoking during while others are eating is gross.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps in your neck of the woods working in a bar is a temporary situation. That is often not the case here. Many people work in the restaurant trade here for years. And, in general, it were people working in the industry who most adamently wanted to see the ban come down, because they *did* care. It is all very well to tell somebody they should just work somewhere else, but if they are trained and experienced in an area.. it is not that easy, especially if most pubs/restaurants are not voluntarily going for a completely smokefree establishment.
Moreover, why should only a case of asthma count for you? Why should others have to inhale the poisonous toxins of smokers ? I don't care what smokers do in their own homes and cars, if they want to pollute their own bodies, that is their decision. But, they should not be allowed to decide the fate of those around them.
You are in the Netherlands? Right? I think, what we might also be dealing with is a cultural difference. People in Europe (and in Asia, for that matter) tend to smoke a lot more and it is far more socially acceptable to smoke in public.
Here, the argument is used that people who work there suffer from the smoke. Then don't work there, simple. Plus, this arguement is used by those whowant this 'no smoking rule', people wo actually work there say that they don't have a problem with it.
So far, the only reason I can find that holds ground is Magrus'. If you have a heavy case of asma, cafés are too full of second hand smoke.
Side note: Smoking in restaurants should be forbidden. Smoking during while others are eating is gross.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps in your neck of the woods working in a bar is a temporary situation. That is often not the case here. Many people work in the restaurant trade here for years. And, in general, it were people working in the industry who most adamently wanted to see the ban come down, because they *did* care. It is all very well to tell somebody they should just work somewhere else, but if they are trained and experienced in an area.. it is not that easy, especially if most pubs/restaurants are not voluntarily going for a completely smokefree establishment.
Moreover, why should only a case of asthma count for you? Why should others have to inhale the poisonous toxins of smokers ? I don't care what smokers do in their own homes and cars, if they want to pollute their own bodies, that is their decision. But, they should not be allowed to decide the fate of those around them.
You are in the Netherlands? Right? I think, what we might also be dealing with is a cultural difference. People in Europe (and in Asia, for that matter) tend to smoke a lot more and it is far more socially acceptable to smoke in public.
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Locke Da'averan
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where i work ppl smoke everywhere. i hate it. there are couple one's who smoke where we sit during our coffee breaks.. only one smokes and sometimes i get irritated but usually the smoke doesn't get to me..
the common attitude of smokers in finland is "i smoke where i want as long as i don't get in trouble for it, i don't care about others"
drugs are clearly more unhealthy and destructive etc. but there's the buzz. smoking gives you nothing else than a cancer if your unlucky. stupidest thing ever IMO
the common attitude of smokers in finland is "i smoke where i want as long as i don't get in trouble for it, i don't care about others"
drugs are clearly more unhealthy and destructive etc. but there's the buzz. smoking gives you nothing else than a cancer if your unlucky. stupidest thing ever IMO
I don't tolerate people with that opinion. When I was about twelve, I went out, and someone was smoking at the table next to me. I had a bad day, was irritated and had the flu. I asked the person if he wouldn't mind putting out his cigarette as it was making me feel ill politely, and he told me to "<expletive deleted> off"."i smoke where i want as long as i don't get in trouble for it, i don't care about others"
I asked him why he had to be mean about it, and he said it wasn't his <expletive deleted> problem if his <expletive deleted> smoking was making me <expletive deleted> sick. I spit on his food and said it wasn't my problem if it made him sick. I got booted out and hit by my father for it, buuuut.....it was the most gratifying meal I had that year. Hope he got what I had. I saw no reason to put up with language like that being used towards a child and for him to be that offensive and cruel about it. I just don't tolerate such behavior without getting even.
As far as drugs, some aren't as harmful as smoking is. Most though, clearly are quite a lot worse.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
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Locke Da'averan
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[QUOTE=Magrus]I don't tolerate people with that opinion. When I was about twelve, I went out, and someone was smoking at the table next to me. I had a bad day, was irritated and had the flu. I asked the person if he wouldn't mind putting out his cigarette as it was making me feel ill politely, and he told me to "<expletive deleted> off". I asked him why he had to be mean about it, and he said it wasn't his <expletive deleted> problem if his <expletive deleted> smoking was making me <expletive deleted> sick. I spit on his food and said it wasn't my problem if it made him sick. I got booted out and hit by my father for it, buuuut.....it was the most gratifying meal I had that year. Hope he got what I had.
I saw no reason to put up with language like that being used towards a child and for him to be that offensive and cruel about it. I just don't tolerate such behavior without getting even.
As far as drugs, some aren't as harmful as smoking is. Most though, clearly are quite a lot worse.[/QUOTE]
i don't accept that attitude either, and the ppl i hang out/friends don't smoke indoors/near the one's who don't smoke.
yes of course most drugs are more harmful than smoking. i just don't see the point of smoking at all. there's no "positive" side to it whatsoever
drugs give euphoria etc. but smoking=nothing.
I asked him why he had to be mean about it, and he said it wasn't his <expletive deleted> problem if his <expletive deleted> smoking was making me <expletive deleted> sick. I spit on his food and said it wasn't my problem if it made him sick. I got booted out and hit by my father for it, buuuut.....it was the most gratifying meal I had that year. Hope he got what I had. I saw no reason to put up with language like that being used towards a child and for him to be that offensive and cruel about it. I just don't tolerate such behavior without getting even.
As far as drugs, some aren't as harmful as smoking is. Most though, clearly are quite a lot worse.[/QUOTE]
i don't accept that attitude either, and the ppl i hang out/friends don't smoke indoors/near the one's who don't smoke.
yes of course most drugs are more harmful than smoking. i just don't see the point of smoking at all. there's no "positive" side to it whatsoever
drugs give euphoria etc. but smoking=nothing.
In the scenario that a restuarant had a sealed off wing with excellent ventilation, a staff was fine with smoke who had to enter into the wing only, making that wing for people who smoke would be fine with me. However, it would be all to easy for the smoke to drift into the other parts of the building when doors opened if it wasn't very well ventilated. Not to mention for the business to be shorthanded, and a non-smoking server being forced to work in that wing instead of one who does smoke.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
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Rob-hin
- Posts: 4832
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[QUOTE=dragon wench]Perhaps in your neck of the woods working in a bar is a temporary situation. That is often not the case here. Many people work in the restaurant trade here for years. And, in general, it were people working in the industry who most adamently wanted to see the ban come down, because they *did* care. It is all very well to tell somebody they should just work somewhere else, but if they are trained and experienced in an area.. it is not that easy, especially if most pubs/restaurants are not voluntarily going for a completely smokefree establishment.
Moreover, why should only a case of asthma count for you? Why should others have to inhale the poisonous toxins of smokers ? I don't care what smokers do in their own homes and cars, if they want to pollute their own bodies, that is their decision. But, they should not be allowed to decide the fate of those around them.
You are in the Netherlands? Right? I think, what we might also be dealing with is a cultural difference. People in Europe (and in Asia, for that matter) tend to smoke a lot more and it is far more socially acceptable to smoke in public.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I live in the Netherlands.
I don't know if it's more acceptable here then in the USA, I haven't been there so it's hard for me to say.
Personally, I don't believe that one night a week going to a bar and inhaling smoke is bad for you. Doing it day after day after day, then yes, it has effects. Breathing smoke in a café wil not get you cancer.
I already agreed that other locations should be smoke free, and this is happening. No one should be exposed to smoke 7 dags a week thus the effect is neglitable.
I think that the point where cultural differences kicks in is the point where employees complained. Here, no one complains, in the USA (as you state) they do. The difference could be in the time of emplyees; students vs. full timers. That's why there should be a 'world law' about this.
In my context, smoking in bars should be allowed.
Moreover, why should only a case of asthma count for you? Why should others have to inhale the poisonous toxins of smokers ? I don't care what smokers do in their own homes and cars, if they want to pollute their own bodies, that is their decision. But, they should not be allowed to decide the fate of those around them.
You are in the Netherlands? Right? I think, what we might also be dealing with is a cultural difference. People in Europe (and in Asia, for that matter) tend to smoke a lot more and it is far more socially acceptable to smoke in public.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I live in the Netherlands.
I don't know if it's more acceptable here then in the USA, I haven't been there so it's hard for me to say.
Personally, I don't believe that one night a week going to a bar and inhaling smoke is bad for you. Doing it day after day after day, then yes, it has effects. Breathing smoke in a café wil not get you cancer.
I already agreed that other locations should be smoke free, and this is happening. No one should be exposed to smoke 7 dags a week thus the effect is neglitable.
I think that the point where cultural differences kicks in is the point where employees complained. Here, no one complains, in the USA (as you state) they do. The difference could be in the time of emplyees; students vs. full timers. That's why there should be a 'world law' about this.
In my context, smoking in bars should be allowed.
Guinness is good for you.
Gives you strength.
Gives you strength.
[QUOTE=Locke Da'averan]
drugs give euphoria etc. but smoking=nothing.[/QUOTE]
Spoken like a true non-smoker . Name a beverage you enjoy, or a certain 'comfort food' you have after a long hard day. A cigarette has the same effect.
The reason people smoke, and the cravings would only be understood by other smokers or smokers who have quit. I find the worst aspect of smoking, is not the carcinogenic effects, but the addiction aspect. I'd love for it to be optional, I'd love to perhaps enjoy a cigarette once every week perhaps, or on special occasions. But unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, and never can
As for this irresponsible smoking thats being spoken about, those are reflections of the person's personality. Smoking does not miraculously turn you into an impolite, filthy person who takes pleasure in the discomfort their habit causes other people.
[QUOTE=Rob-hin]
Side note: Smoking in restaurants should be forbidden. Smoking during while others are eating is gross.
[/QUOTE]
When I was eating a take-out at my friends house last Thursday, this was actually a topic of conversation. How we (as smokers) find it rude that other people will light up when other people have yet to finish their meals. Unfortunately, such things are etiquette, and not mandatory rules.
drugs give euphoria etc. but smoking=nothing.[/QUOTE]
Spoken like a true non-smoker
. Name a beverage you enjoy, or a certain 'comfort food' you have after a long hard day. A cigarette has the same effect.The reason people smoke, and the cravings would only be understood by other smokers or smokers who have quit. I find the worst aspect of smoking, is not the carcinogenic effects, but the addiction aspect. I'd love for it to be optional, I'd love to perhaps enjoy a cigarette once every week perhaps, or on special occasions. But unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, and never can
As for this irresponsible smoking thats being spoken about, those are reflections of the person's personality. Smoking does not miraculously turn you into an impolite, filthy person who takes pleasure in the discomfort their habit causes other people.
[QUOTE=Rob-hin]
Side note: Smoking in restaurants should be forbidden. Smoking during while others are eating is gross.
[/QUOTE]
When I was eating a take-out at my friends house last Thursday, this was actually a topic of conversation. How we (as smokers) find it rude that other people will light up when other people have yet to finish their meals. Unfortunately, such things are etiquette, and not mandatory rules.
"I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!"
Oh, I have a lot of friends who are considerate about smoking, it's just those people that ARE like that who truly get to me. I mean, why would you blow smoke in someones face when they mention it truly bothering them you know? It's just obscene and ridiculous behavior. My friends all blow the smoke away from me as a compromise if they want me near them when they smoke. Otherwise, I go somewhere else.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
-
dragon wench
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Just to throw another element into the discussion. I want to make a point about types of smoke. For example, I find that roll-your-owns, *good* cigars and pipe smoke aren't nearly as difficult to be around. I suspect that this is related to all of the crap they put into cigarettes, like battery acid, for example.
I don't know this for a fact or anything, but I can't help but wonder sometimes if the many health problems associated with smoking are significantly amplified with the various additives..
@Rob-hin,
I do see the point you are making, but I hope you see mine too
As far as occasional exposure to smoke goes, you are probably right in terms of the effects being fairly negligible. But, what about the people who like to go out to bars several times a week, yet don't want to inhale second-hand smoke?
I don't know this for a fact or anything, but I can't help but wonder sometimes if the many health problems associated with smoking are significantly amplified with the various additives..
@Rob-hin,
I do see the point you are making, but I hope you see mine too
As far as occasional exposure to smoke goes, you are probably right in terms of the effects being fairly negligible. But, what about the people who like to go out to bars several times a week, yet don't want to inhale second-hand smoke?
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Locke Da'averan
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[QUOTE=Denethorn]Spoken like a true non-smoker
[/QUOTE]
indeed
it's the same with everything in life, you can't know it unless you've tried it. but still this is going into opinion discussion atleast on my part, so i call it for the night and let the intelligent one's continue the discussion
@DW:well ppl who go to bars should prolly go somewhere else or take the smoke if it's not forbidden. they have the freedom of smoking if it's not forbidden, and we have the freedom of going some place else.. if the place you go allows smoking why go there in the first place if you want to go somewhere where smoking is not allowed?
[/QUOTE]
indeed
it's the same with everything in life, you can't know it unless you've tried it. but still this is going into opinion discussion atleast on my part, so i call it for the night and let the intelligent one's continue the discussion
@DW:well ppl who go to bars should prolly go somewhere else or take the smoke if it's not forbidden. they have the freedom of smoking if it's not forbidden, and we have the freedom of going some place else.. if the place you go allows smoking why go there in the first place if you want to go somewhere where smoking is not allowed?
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Ned Flanders
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I don't have the time presently to read the thread in its' entirety. However, I've been a smoker for many years and will continue to enjoy my cancer sticks. Minneapolis just went 'no smoking' in late March and while I thought I'd be bitter prior to the enactment, I must say I applaud it. I don't smoke as much these days as in years past, but in a bar I can unconsciously become a chimney after a few pints. Now I can't, and hangovers aren't nearly as severe, a good thing in my book.
The only thing I find silly is the premise that communities use "employees in bars and restaurants shouldn't be subject to second hand smoke" to gain momentum for the cause. If one really can't stand second hand smoke, they shouldn't be working there in the first place. It's not as if the employees were shocked to find patrons smoking in such establishments. It just seems like a weak link when they have so many better reasons to issue a public smoking ban.
There's actually a community here in the metro area where you can't smoke anywhere. I know smoking outside is illegal there, however, I'm not certain if it extends to a person's homestead (which I doubt it does or can).
The only thing I find silly is the premise that communities use "employees in bars and restaurants shouldn't be subject to second hand smoke" to gain momentum for the cause. If one really can't stand second hand smoke, they shouldn't be working there in the first place. It's not as if the employees were shocked to find patrons smoking in such establishments. It just seems like a weak link when they have so many better reasons to issue a public smoking ban.
There's actually a community here in the metro area where you can't smoke anywhere. I know smoking outside is illegal there, however, I'm not certain if it extends to a person's homestead (which I doubt it does or can).
Crush enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women.
[QUOTE=Ned Flanders]Minneapolis just went 'no smoking' in late March and while I thought I'd be bitter prior to the enactment, I must say I applaud it. I don't smoke as much these days as in years past, but in a bar I can unconsciously become a chimney after a few pints. Now I can't, and hangovers aren't nearly as severe, a good thing in my book.
The only thing I find silly is the premise that communities use "employees in bars and restaurants shouldn't be subject to second hand smoke" to gain momentum for the cause. If one really can't stand second hand smoke, they shouldn't be working there in the first place... It just seems like a weak link when they have so many better reasons to issue a public smoking ban...[/QUOTE]
What "better reasons" do you have in mind? To keep smokers from becoming chimneys after a few pints and reduce their hangovers?
BTW, I apologize if my vitriol has offended any smokers here. My excuse is that I just watched one of my friends die from emphysema a couple of months ago. It's a fact, not an opinion, that he would not have died in the same manner if he hadn't been a smoker. Everyone who loved him is now calling him a selfish bastard for killing himself--and wounding us. I've also been having to sort through his possessions on behalf of his family, and they're so filthy and smelly, it's driving me crazy. I'm really down on smoking right now, and I have no regard for the comfort and convenience of smokers when smoking causes so much pain and expense for everyone else.
The only thing I find silly is the premise that communities use "employees in bars and restaurants shouldn't be subject to second hand smoke" to gain momentum for the cause. If one really can't stand second hand smoke, they shouldn't be working there in the first place... It just seems like a weak link when they have so many better reasons to issue a public smoking ban...[/QUOTE]
What "better reasons" do you have in mind? To keep smokers from becoming chimneys after a few pints and reduce their hangovers?
BTW, I apologize if my vitriol has offended any smokers here. My excuse is that I just watched one of my friends die from emphysema a couple of months ago. It's a fact, not an opinion, that he would not have died in the same manner if he hadn't been a smoker. Everyone who loved him is now calling him a selfish bastard for killing himself--and wounding us. I've also been having to sort through his possessions on behalf of his family, and they're so filthy and smelly, it's driving me crazy. I'm really down on smoking right now, and I have no regard for the comfort and convenience of smokers when smoking causes so much pain and expense for everyone else.
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jopperm2
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Here in Florida smoking is banned everywhere basically. Even bars that have no food. I don't mind, though I proabably would if I smoked.
They did have to amend the laws to allow special "cigar bars" where cigars purchased there can be smoked since some of them were going to go out of business because of the law and everyone in those places is a smoker anyways. You can smoke in those and members only private clubs, that's it. I think they have to pay for a special liscense to do so too.
No restaurants, businesses, government buildings. Nothin. You can't even smoke outside the airport anymore. You would have to drive like two miles off airport property and smoke. Also the major theme parks are all going no smoking even outside.
I, frankly, am surprised that Florida went so extreme on it since we're somewhat conservative. The state's economy relies largely on tourism though so I guess that could be why. Though I don't think you can get a smoking hotel room anymore either so maybe that hurts business a little.
They did have to amend the laws to allow special "cigar bars" where cigars purchased there can be smoked since some of them were going to go out of business because of the law and everyone in those places is a smoker anyways. You can smoke in those and members only private clubs, that's it. I think they have to pay for a special liscense to do so too.
No restaurants, businesses, government buildings. Nothin. You can't even smoke outside the airport anymore. You would have to drive like two miles off airport property and smoke. Also the major theme parks are all going no smoking even outside.
I, frankly, am surprised that Florida went so extreme on it since we're somewhat conservative. The state's economy relies largely on tourism though so I guess that could be why. Though I don't think you can get a smoking hotel room anymore either so maybe that hurts business a little.
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
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Ned Flanders
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[QUOTE=VonDondu]What "better reasons" do you have in mind? To keep smokers from becoming chimneys after a few pints and reduce their hangovers?
BTW, I apologize if my vitriol has offended any smokers here. My excuse is that I just watched one of my friends die from emphysema a couple of months ago. It's a fact, not an opinion, that he would not have died in the same manner if he hadn't been a smoker. Everyone who loved him is now calling him a selfish bastard for killing himself--and wounding us. I've also been having to sort through his possessions on behalf of his family, and they're so filthy and smelly, it's driving me crazy. I'm really down on smoking right now, and I have no regard for the comfort and convenience of smokers when smoking causes so much pain and expense for everyone else.[/QUOTE]
The fact that there are far more non smokers in a bar/restaurant than there are smokers is more than a good enough reason for me. Using the "employees shouldn't be exposed" argument to fuel the cause is silly to me because they all knew it to be a smoking environment when they took the job in the first job. Don't get me wrong, I support the ban in the bars and restaurants, this particular reason however just makes me think people are trying harder than they need to in order to rally the masses. Sorry for your loss, I've watched someone die from emphysema also and it's ugly.
BTW, I apologize if my vitriol has offended any smokers here. My excuse is that I just watched one of my friends die from emphysema a couple of months ago. It's a fact, not an opinion, that he would not have died in the same manner if he hadn't been a smoker. Everyone who loved him is now calling him a selfish bastard for killing himself--and wounding us. I've also been having to sort through his possessions on behalf of his family, and they're so filthy and smelly, it's driving me crazy. I'm really down on smoking right now, and I have no regard for the comfort and convenience of smokers when smoking causes so much pain and expense for everyone else.[/QUOTE]
The fact that there are far more non smokers in a bar/restaurant than there are smokers is more than a good enough reason for me. Using the "employees shouldn't be exposed" argument to fuel the cause is silly to me because they all knew it to be a smoking environment when they took the job in the first job. Don't get me wrong, I support the ban in the bars and restaurants, this particular reason however just makes me think people are trying harder than they need to in order to rally the masses. Sorry for your loss, I've watched someone die from emphysema also and it's ugly.
Crush enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women.
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jopperm2
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I agree, the employees argument is a load of crap. It's a good business decision, a good health decision, etc. Calling for the help of bartenders though is like saying soldiers shouldn't be subject to bullets.
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson
[QUOTE=Ned Flanders]Sorry for your loss.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate that.
I'm surprised if I'm the only cynic here. (I, cynical? But I'm so cheerful.) But I thought it was obvious why the health of bar employees is an issue: health care costs are staggering, so better health means fewer sick days, more productivity, lower insurance rates, more profit, and more tax revenue. Follow the money and you'll find good public policy.
I appreciate that.
I'm surprised if I'm the only cynic here. (I, cynical? But I'm so cheerful.)
But I thought it was obvious why the health of bar employees is an issue: health care costs are staggering, so better health means fewer sick days, more productivity, lower insurance rates, more profit, and more tax revenue. Follow the money and you'll find good public policy. -
Ned Flanders
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[QUOTE=VonDondu]I appreciate that.
I'm surprised if I'm the only cynic here. (I, cynical? But I'm so cheerful.) But I thought it was obvious why the health of bar employees is an issue: health care costs are staggering, so better health means fewer sick days, more productivity, lower insurance rates, more profit, and more tax revenue. Follow the money and you'll find good public policy. [/QUOTE]
You're welcome.
True, better health means fewer sick days. However, I would say the percentage of bars/restaurants offering health insurance to their staff is quite low. Corporate chains yes, but franchises and independents probably not. Plus, I think the percentage of bar/restaurant staff who are smokers is quite high. Just based on my own experiences as having been a server and a bartender in various establishments over the years.
I'm surprised if I'm the only cynic here. (I, cynical? But I'm so cheerful.)
But I thought it was obvious why the health of bar employees is an issue: health care costs are staggering, so better health means fewer sick days, more productivity, lower insurance rates, more profit, and more tax revenue. Follow the money and you'll find good public policy. [/QUOTE]You're welcome.
True, better health means fewer sick days. However, I would say the percentage of bars/restaurants offering health insurance to their staff is quite low. Corporate chains yes, but franchises and independents probably not. Plus, I think the percentage of bar/restaurant staff who are smokers is quite high. Just based on my own experiences as having been a server and a bartender in various establishments over the years.
Crush enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women.